The Grapevine: Africans, AA's and Caribbeans

[Jammer22]

Your parents would be Jamaican Americans since they are Jamaicans with American citizenship.

You would be just American who happens of be Jamaican descent. Different from Jamaican American unless you have dual citizenship via your parents.

Dad's still a resident (working on it) and Mom just got her citizenship last year.
I got dual tho.

F'ed up.

I'm actually 2nd gen.

 

[K.O.N.Y]

Because the nature of language is fluid and changes this is like asking how can we reclaim the n-word when it was expressly created centuries ago for a specific purpose? Words change, meanings change, usage changes. You can't unring a bell, you can only move forward.



And I'm not saying anybody should drop it, I'm speaking for MYSELF as in my opinion is that 1. I prefer not to be called AA and 2. I PERSONALLY think we should have our own term specifically for native born American Blacks that are descendants of chattel slavery.



Maybe at one point, but not anymore And the language involving this is constantly changing, we were ******s, then colored, then negros, Afro American, African American... with the proliferation of Black immigrants post Civil rights era, I think new terminology is needed for us specifically. No more, no less.

I agree.
The term African American lacked foresight
And didnt take into account an increasingly diverse America
Or an increasingly diverse Black American immigrant population
In many ways the term African American is borderline in smart-dumb nikka territory
As i believe Jesses intentions came from the heart, the term kind of fukked us over in the long term
As we shouldnt be even having this conversation in the first place

Never trust a distinction like AA thats considered POLITICALLY CORRECT. That should tell you something right there somethings wrong

 

[Anwulika]

My point is this: I'm not gonna act like there isn't any 'rift' between Africans about AAs, but there really isn't much malice intended behind the word 'Akata" despite what the poster who I originally quoted thought. (well at least 90 percent of the time. i've been called akata myself since I'm considered so Americanized ) But I can see why an American Would be offended by it


can't say the same for bootyscratcher or spearchucker or jungle dweller .

at the end of the day None of this is really a big deal, we have bigger fish to fry

Exactly. Before coming here, I'd always believed that 'Akata' meant 'Nigerian American' and had positive connotations.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Your parents would be Jamaican Americans since they are Jamaicans with American citizenship.

You would be just American who happens of be Jamaican descent. Different from Jamaican American unless you have dual citizenship via your parents.

he would still be jamaican american

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I'm with @Diasporan Royalty on this.

It really doesn't take much to logically determine who you are. People just get lazy, or want to hide under AA by playing word games.

If you are African, but can designate which country you come from, don't be lazy and go with AA.
You know damn well you can be more precise than those who are U.S DOS in terms of nationality or Ethnicity.

When U.S DOS say it, the African part of AA is literally a statement about their pan-african bloodline, origins, and culture. Plus they coined the term a long time ago to describe the former conditions leading to their ethno-genesis.

I don't see a need for AA to change identification terms. They just need to correct people from the AA politely. (Enforcement)
Kinda like how Africans make sure you ain't suppose to wear these beads from over there or Kente cloth or dashikis.
(We wouldn't want there to be any unintentional cultural appropriation now, would we?)

See, it's people in the diaspora who should be specific.

My parents would be Jamaican Americans. Immigrants.
For example, I'm Jamaican American 1st gen.

A Ghanian brehette coming here is Ghanian American.
A Nigerian breh is Nigerian American.

Simple, no?

EDIT: Messed up. I'm 2nd gen.

this

 

[Concerning VIolence]

Grapevine disabled the YouTube comments in all their videos.

With the fukkery I read in those comments, they were right to get rid of it. The ignorance coming from all three sides of AA, African, Caribbean were more toxic on there than the BS posts made in this thread

Honeslty I'm sick and tired of this ONLINE diaspora war.

Nothing was going anywhere in these discussions. All sides were ignorant and only able to understand the bias of their respective ethnicites.

TheGrapevine video actually ended on a good, communal note, though.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

@IllmaticDelta can explain way better than I can. But it should be common knowledge that White Southern culture is just the b*stard child of AA culture from food, music and even spirituality.

If you feel like it we talked abut it in this thread.
Refuting the myth that Black American music/culture is "Europeanized".

not ALL of it but a good amount from food, spirituality and music like you mentioned is afram influenced.

 

[im_sleep]

Looking forward to your response

Working on some African American "cultural practice" theories myself

Thanks.

Basically my opinion is that AA culture is simply the amalgamation of various African ethnic groups and their adaptations to the conditions of slavery in America.

European influence is of course part of that adaptation but to state the culture we have purely derives from it is false when there's too much evidence to the contrary, plus his way of attributing "dysfunctional values" of AA's as simply imitating southern whites is a slick way of ignoring the negative effects of slavery, jim crow, etc. and indirectly placing the blame on us.

Not to mention it subscribes to the idea that this issue is solely an AA issue because of the success of African and West Indian immigrants. It's all lazy as fukk and basically jack off material for White conservatives looking to prove some kind of inherent Black American pathology.

Don't get fooled at the prospect that it's shytting on Southern Whites because if anything it's letting them off the hook.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Thanks.

Basically my opinion is that AA culture is simply the amalgamation of various African ethnic groups and their adaptations to the conditions of slavery in America.

European influence is of course part of that adaptation but to state the culture we have purely derives from it is false when there's too much evidence to the contrary, plus his way of attributing "dysfunctional values" of AA's as simply imitating southern whites is a slick way of ignoring the negative effects of slavery, jim crow, etc. and indirectly placing the blame on us.

Not to mention it subscribes to the idea that this issue is solely an AA issue because of the success of African and West Indian immigrants. It's all lazy as fukk and basically jack off material for White conservatives looking to prove some kind of inherent Black American pathology.

Don't get fooled at the prospect that it's shytting on Southern Whites because if anything it's letting them off the hook.

cosign 100%

 

[Jammer22]

One thing that I had a problem with from the discussion towards the end was the Africans stating that they knew that " America" is not home and they were going back. Cool, I guess. But while you're here do understand that AAs are in war?

Now, they did indeed say that even in Nigeria, their own ethnic soil was preferred rather than Lagos or a more cosmopolitan polity other than their homogeneous zone.

Seemed very mercenary to me at first that they thought they could come over and maneuver freely before heading back. I think one of the women mentioned she was offended that AA ask Africans for help, but don't try and come to Africa to build it up.

This gave me pause.

I still think it's mercenary, but what she and the other Africans low-key revealed is that not only are they in competition with each other, they've been forced into a nation-state where one ethnic group does not reign supreme. Euros fought dozens and dozens of wars and consolidated enough power to extend their competition globally.

Basically, while we are at war with WS, they are still trying to figure out which ethnic group will reign supreme to truly establish a nation. To me, it looks like they are still in the pre-Napoleon stage of nation building consciousness/culture. I'm not sure there nationalistic enough to really understand how undermining AAs in the west screws them over too.

I look at AA as being in the belly of the beast, the 1st hyper-power and the ground-zero for mass black race consciousness.

So, overall, what I got was that they ain't here to help your war even though your fight made possible for them access said resources for their war, they are here to help their ethnic groups. (The AAs completely missed the point of this in the 1st episode of AAvsAvs CA)

Thoughts?

 

[K.O.N.Y]

Thanks.

Basically my opinion is that AA culture is simply the amalgamation of various African ethnic groups and their adaptations to the conditions of slavery in America.

European influence is of course part of that adaptation but to state the culture we have purely derives from it is false when there's too much evidence to the contrary, plus his way of attributing "dysfunctional values" of AA's as simply imitating southern whites is a slick way of ignoring the negative effects of slavery, jim crow, etc. and indirectly placing the blame on us.

Not to mention it subscribes to the idea that this issue is solely an AA issue because of the success of African and West Indian immigrants. It's all lazy as fukk and basically jack off material for White conservatives looking to prove some kind of inherent Black American pathology.

Don't get fooled at the prospect that it's shytting on Southern Whites because if anything it's letting them off the hook.

Kudos to your ability to play chess

Also keep in mind the counter move
If Aframs point this out that means their making excuses for their negligence angle and hating on "blacks who have their act together"

 

[K.O.N.Y]

One thing that I had a problem with from the discussion towards the end was the Africans stating that they knew that " America" is not home and they were going back. Cool, I guess. But while you're here do understand that AAs are in war?

Now, they did indeed say that even in Nigeria, their own ethnic soil was preferred rather than Lagos or a more cosmopolitan polity other than their homogeneous zone.

Seemed very mercenary to me at first that they thought they could come over and maneuver freely before heading back. I think one of the women mentioned she was offended that AA ask Africans for help, but don't try and come to Africa to build it up.

This gave me pause.

I still think it's mercenary, but what she and the other Africans low-key revealed is that not only are they in competition with each other, they've been forced into a nation-state where one ethnic group does not reign supreme. Euros fought dozens and dozens of wars and consolidated enough power to extend their competition globally.

Basically, while we are at war with WS, they are still trying to figure out which ethnic group will reign supreme to truly establish a nation. To me, it looks like they are still in the pre-Napoleon stage of nation building consciousness/culture. I'm not sure there nationalistic enough to really understand how undermining AAs in the west screws them over too.

I look at AA as being in the belly of the beast, the 1st hyper-power and the ground-zero for mass black race consciousness.

So, overall, what I got was that they ain't here to help your war even though your fight made possible for them access said resources for their war, they are here to help their ethnic groups. (The AAs completely missed the point of this in the 1st episode of AAvsAvs CA)

Thoughts?

I'm not sure there nationalistic enough to really understand how undermining AAs in the west screws them over to

Weve been preaching this for over a 100 years

I look at AA as being in the belly of the beast, the 1st hyper-power and the ground-zero for mass black race consciousness

As did people like Garvey

 

[Indiglow Meta (R$G)]

Yooo what's good with
boule nikkas & bougie heaux stanning France and French KKKulture? Thats one of my biggest red flags if I see a nikka talking about Paris this, French that I guarantee they ALWAYS be on some super saiyen c00n shyt

They go over there and get turned out.

 

[Frangala]

One thing that I had a problem with from the discussion towards the end was the Africans stating that they knew that " America" is not home and they were going back. Cool, I guess. But while you're here do understand that AAs are in war?

Now, they did indeed say that even in Nigeria, their own ethnic soil was preferred rather than Lagos or a more cosmopolitan polity other than their homogeneous zone.

Seemed very mercenary to me at first that they thought they could come over and maneuver freely before heading back. I think one of the women mentioned she was offended that AA ask Africans for help, but don't try and come to Africa to build it up.

This gave me pause.

I still think it's mercenary, but what she and the other Africans low-key revealed is that not only are they in competition with each other, they've been forced into a nation-state where one ethnic group does not reign supreme. Euros fought dozens and dozens of wars and consolidated enough power to extend their competition globally.

Basically, while we are at war with WS, they are still trying to figure out which ethnic group will reign supreme to truly establish a nation. To me, it looks like they are still in the pre-Napoleon stage of nation building consciousness/culture. I'm not sure there nationalistic enough to really understand how undermining AAs in the west screws them over too.

I look at AA as being in the belly of the beast, the 1st hyper-power and the ground-zero for mass black race consciousness.

So, overall, what I got was that they ain't here to help your war even though your fight made possible for them access said resources for their war, they are here to help their ethnic groups. (The AAs completely missed the point of this in the 1st episode of AAvsAvs CA)

Thoughts?

Being an immigrant is very mercenary. People move from their country of origin to another country mostly for economic reasons or safety or protection from persecution. In case of African immigrants, it is not different for African immigrants. No immigrant fleeing these types of situations is thinking about building solidarity with a segment of native population of his/her adopted country, their primary concern is survival in the literal sense of the word and also economically. This perception maybe changes once subsequent generations are born and assimilate to American culture and become American not through naturalization but by birth and sees America as their home or all they know.

On your last paragraph, they are not here to help you in your war because they have never studied your history just like you have not studied theirs especially those who have arrived pre internet information age. I don't expect an American curriculum to teach about African history just like I don't expect the history curriculum of X African country to talk about the civil rights movement in the US. People in that part of the world see America purely as the land of economic opportunity and do not know how their access to opportunity in terms of Black immigrants was facilitated by the struggles and fight of AAs. I don't expect immigrants from Latin America to be well versed in the struggle of Cesar Chavez.

Black race consciousness without resources does not do any good. If anything that would change the position of Black people overall is the consciousness of Africans in the continent where there are 1.2 billion of them and fix their own country and start behaving a functioning unified nation states with good governance.

 

[Free White & 21]

Thanks.

Basically my opinion is that AA culture is simply the amalgamation of various African ethnic groups and their adaptations to the conditions of slavery in America.

European influence is of course part of that adaptation but to state the culture we have purely derives from it is false when there's too much evidence to the contrary, plus his way of attributing "dysfunctional values" of AA's as simply imitating southern whites is a slick way of ignoring the negative effects of slavery, jim crow, etc. and indirectly placing the blame on us.

Not to mention it subscribes to the idea that this issue is solely an AA issue because of the success of African and West Indian immigrants. It's all lazy as fukk and basically jack off material for White conservatives looking to prove some kind of inherent Black American pathology.

Don't get fooled at the prospect that it's shytting on Southern Whites because if anything it's letting them off the hook.

I 100% agree with the bolded - that's the exact starting point of my theory actually

The rest i can offer a few minor counters too but i'm not about to go out of my way to defend Thomas fukkin Sowell