The Ghettos Tryin To Kill Me!>>>Ice Cream Man

[JustCKing]

Why you say that he isn't bigger, because of what?

Face is an MC that was a part of an iconic group in the Geto Boys. "Mind Playin Tricks On Me" is one of the greatest Hip Hop songs ever. Then he has solo classics like "Seen A Man Die", "Hand of a Dead Body" are up there too. There's also "Smile" and "Mary Jane". He has albums like The Diary. Face has influenced other greats. He's even a heavy influence on Master P. You're not into Hip Hop and don't recognize Face.

OutKast is an iconic group period. Each album they put out during the 10 year period of 1994 through 2003 was more successful than the last. They didn't conform or compromise. They stuck to their own script with a sound that was ever changing. They put out classic albums and songs and you even have today's artists influenced by their sound. And again, you can't be a fan of Hip Hop and not recognize Kast.

 

[NO-BadAzz]

P was part of a iconic group in TRU, They have hits "Freak Hoes" (To where Future re-made the song) "Somebody's Watching Me". That whole CD "Tru 2 Da Game" is a classic

P has classics songs such as "Ice Cream Man" "Make'em Say Ughh" and more "I miss my homies" I can keep going if you want

P has classic albums like Ghetto D and Ice Cream Man

P influenced other artists, P even influenced Slim and Baby to re-construct their whole operation


As far as your Outkast post, I mean, that 1994 album when they dropped wasn't well received, if I can recall, LaFace was about to drop them from the label or did, They didn't conform or compromise (what does that even mean) but I do know that they made "Pop" songs, songs that they were not making from 1994-2002.

P put out classic albums and had a roster that put out classic albums as well.

rappers stay biting the blueprint from No Limit and re-making their old songs/rap/ See Rick Ross, See Usher. P in 98 had R&B cats saying in their R&B songs that they were bout it bout it or making reference to No Limit. See Wyclef, See Gerald Levert, See Maxwell. See the Spalkeville dude.

See Montell Jordan, I can keep going.

So again, why P isn't as big or bigger than the cats you've named?

 

[JustCKing]

P was part of a iconic group in TRU, They have hits "Freak Hoes" (To where Future re-made the song) "Somebody's Watching Me". That whole CD "Tru 2 Da Game" is a classic

P has classics songs such as "Ice Cream Man" "Make'em Say Ughh" and more "I miss my homies" I can keep going if you want

P has classic albums like Ghetto D and Ice Cream Man

P influenced other artists, P even influenced Slim and Baby to re-construct their whole operation


As far as your Outkast post, I mean, that 1994 album when they dropped wasn't well received, if I can recall, LaFace was about to drop them from the label or did, They didn't conform or compromise (what does that even mean) but I do know that they made "Pop" songs, songs that they were not making from 1994-2002.

P put out classic albums and had a roster that put out classic albums as well.

rappers stay biting the blueprint from No Limit and re-making their old songs/rap/ See Rick Ross, See Usher. P in 98 had R&B cats saying in their R&B songs that they were bout it bout it or making reference to No Limit. See Wyclef, See Gerald Levert, See Maxwell. See the Spalkeville dude.

See Montell Jordan, I can keep going.

So again, why P isn't as big or bigger than the cats you've named?

Jay-Z on Slick Rick

The British MC was one of the cornerstones of Def Jam Records' early years and left quite an impression on hip-hop's following generations. In the "Come and Get Me" section of "Decoded," Jay delves into why Slick was so talented, juxtaposed with Texas MC Scarface. Both icons use emotion in their lyrics: Rick through the punch line of a lingering joke, and 'Face through a brash and open delivery.

"Slick Rick also wrote some of the first rap songs that were genuinely sad — which sounds like a strange thing to say. ... Slick Rick was too much of an artist to come out with straight-up tearjerkers, but like all great comics he knew how to hide deeper emotions between the punch lines, emotions like regret and loss, the kind of feelings that could make you pause even while you were speeding down the New Jersey turnpike on the way to your hustling spot. ... Slick Rick taught me that not only can rap be emotionally expressive, it can even express those feelings that you can't really name — which was important for me, and for lots of kids like me, who couldn't always find the language to make sense of our feelings."

Jay-Z's 'Decoded': The Five Most Revealing Excerpts

Down South, UGK was to us, if not Run-DMC, definitely EPMD. Geto Boys was equivalent to N.W.A.----- T.I..

Thanks to the infectious Isaac Hayes sample and Scarface’s nightmarish rhymes, the track has left an unforgettable legacy on hip-hop music, having been sampled by artists ranging from OutKast to the Clipse to Biggie

Hip-Hop Gem: “Mind Playing Tricks on Me” Inspired Kid Cudi’s “Day ‘n’ Nite” – Stop The Breaks | Independent Music Grind

And if we're going to include other genres into this:

Ashanti sampled "Mary Jane" for "Baby"

Kirk Franklin interpolated "Smile" for his own "I Smile"

Biggie referenced "Mind's Playin' Tricks" on the original version of "One More Chance".

^^^ I challenge you to find artists in the game that have the same respect and admiration for TRU and Master P's music.

 

[JustCKing]

As far as your Outkast post, I mean, that 1994 album when they dropped wasn't well received, if I can recall, LaFace was about to drop them from the label or did, They didn't conform or compromise (what does that even mean) but I do know that they made "Pop" songs, songs that they were not making from 1994-2002.

P put out classic albums and had a roster that put out classic albums as well.

rappers stay biting the blueprint from No Limit and re-making their old songs/rap/ See Rick Ross, See Usher. P in 98 had R&B cats saying in their R&B songs that they were bout it bout it or making reference to No Limit. See Wyclef, See Gerald Levert, See Maxwell. See the Spalkeville dude.

See Montell Jordan, I can keep going.

So again, why P isn't as big or bigger than the cats you've named?

Breh, do you like making up lies as a hobby?

Southernplayalistic went platinum in 1994 and was well received. They were not in danger of being dropped.

Again, if you're holding Kast making Pop songs against them, then that goes double for P who made Pop songs as well.

From Aquemini alone:

If you’ve never listened to Aquemini—which celebrates its sweet 16th birthday on Monday (Sept. 29)—you’ve probably caught its influence in today’s generation of musicians. That epic brass break in the middle of Beyoncé’s “Flawless (Remix)”? It was pulled from “SpottieOttieDopalicious.” J. Cole sampled the same track for his own 2010 single “Who Dat,” also lifting the beat of “Da Art of Storytellin’, Pt. 1” for Born Sinner’s “LAnd of the Snakes.” Everyone from Lloyd (“Southside”) to Curren$y to Lupe Fiasco (“$Nitches”) to Jill Scott to Lil Wayne (“Right Above It”) have cut slithers from Aquemini—and that’s just what you can find in the credits. Kendrick Lamar’s good kid, m.A.A.d city is noticeably seasoned with spices from OutKast’s masterpiece, particularly on songs like “Real” and “The Art of Peer Pressure.”

What Millennials Should Know About… OutKast’s ‘Aquemini’

I’ll tell you this, my personal favorite group of all-time is RUN-DMC. The greatest group of all time Outkast. Outkast is the first group to really be rewarded for every album being different but Public Enemy never created two albums alike because we wanted to make sure when we came out we would never ever repeat ourselves. That’s a rock and roll credo. Outkast came out the box like that but a new audience had to get it cuz like you said when you’re seven what do you know? But the point is cats have dropped off with performances and gotten lazy because of videos and the paychecks. Every other art form cats are sweating on stage trying to win the love one fan at a time----- Chuck D

| The Classic Hip Hop Interview Archives >> Chuck D (Public Enemy) | The Classic Hip Hop Interview Archives

^^^ What members of iconic legendary groups are saying this about TRU or Master P for that matter.

 

[Wacky D]

@JustCKing youre a nice person and all but youre too much into googling cosigns and charts.

you gotta get out and live this chit & be in touch with the people and whats really going on out here.

 

[OHSNAP!]

Don't know if it makes sense to compare Outkast/DF to Master P/NL anyway. Pretty different music, different business models, totally different characters, P was always a businessman first, Dre/Boi were always artists first...

 

[Wacky D]

OutKast IS an iconic group. In 1997, they were two albums deep. I never said they were icons then. To say that they aren't icons now though is clearly false. Some of the most bizarre posts that even P himself wouldn't even co-sign have been posted in this thread.

the 1st 2 album was their peak with the core rap audience tho.
and they were just a mid-level group back then.

so basically, we're supposed to celebrate them as icons because they went on to sell a bunch of records to soccer moms.

might as well throw the will.i.am on hip-hop's mt rushmore while we're at it.

Face is an MC that was a part of an iconic group in the Geto Boys. "Mind Playin Tricks On Me" is one of the greatest Hip Hop songs ever. Then he has solo classics like "Seen A Man Die", "Hand of a Dead Body" are up there too. There's also "Smile" and "Mary Jane". He has albums like The Diary. Face has influenced other greats. He's even a heavy influence on Master P. You're not into Hip Hop and don't recognize Face.

OutKast is an iconic group period. Each album they put out during the 10 year period of 1994 through 2003 was more successful than the last. They didn't conform or compromise. They stuck to their own script with a sound that was ever changing. They put out classic albums and songs and you even have today's artists influenced by their sound. And again, you can't be a fan of Hip Hop and not recognize Kast.

aside from "mind playin tricks on me", none of those songs or albums are on that iconic level. most of what you listed isn't even very recognizable. youre confusing all-time rap rankings with icon status. two different things.

each outkast album as more crossover than the last. of course their sales went up with each album. cant say the same for their standing in hip-hop. and when I say that, I'm not talking about industry props.

 

[JustCKing]

the 1st 2 album was their peak with the core rap audience tho.
and they were just a mid-level group back then.

so basically, we're supposed to celebrate them as icons because they went on to sell a bunch of records to soccer moms.

might as well throw the will.i.am on hip-hop's mt rushmore while we're at it.





aside from "mind playin tricks on me", none of those songs or albums are on that iconic level. most of what you listed isn't even very recognizable. youre confusing all-time rap rankings with icon status. two different things.

each outkast album as more crossover than the last. of course their sales went up with each album. cant say the same for their standing in hip-hop. and when I say that, I'm not talking about industry props.

Nothing you have to say about Kast will ever be credible and the garbage you're spewing in this thread to prop Master P over Face and Kast makes you look even less credible. Nothing released from that label is as iconic as ehat Face and Kast did. In terms of business, P is that dude. Musically speaking, P isn't in the echelon of the greats. Even if I took your assesment of Kast's peak to be true, those two albums are still as essential to Hip Hop than anything P ever made.

Kast is celebrated as icons because they made dope music period. Two lyricists and musicians who wrote and self produced their own albums as well as music for other artists.

 

[Wacky D]

Nothing you have to say about Kast will ever be credible and the garbage you're spewing in this thread to prop Master P over Face and Kast makes you look even less credible. Nothing released from that label is as iconic as ehat Face and Kast did. In terms of business, P is that dude. Musically speaking, P isn't in the echelon of the greats. Even if I took your assesment of Kast's peak to be true, those two albums are still as essential to Hip Hop than anything P ever made.

Kast is celebrated as icons because they made dope music period. Two lyricists and musicians who wrote and self produced their own albums as well as music for other artists.

youre in denial. your whole argument is that their icons because you say they are.

as far as popular albums go, ghetto d is more iconic than any albums dropped by face & kast.

and heres why: the combination of a popularity, sales, and quality.

scarface music isn't recognizable to people who don't check for him.

as for outkast, they sold a lot but the niccas was never on them LIKE THAT. they don't even have a real consensus classic with the CORE AUDIENCE. and by that, I don't mean the internet or the industry or the critics. I can entertain the scarface debate, but outkast is laughable.

not that I really care, but since when did outkast become producers? must be the latter years, cuz I recall organized noise producing all their stuff.

 

[JustCKing]

youre in denial. your whole argument is that their icons because you say they are.

as far as popular albums go, ghetto d is more iconic than any albums dropped by face & kast.

and heres why: the combination of a popularity, sales, and quality.

scarface music isn't recognizable to people who don't check for him.

as for outkast, they sold a lot but the niccas was never on them LIKE THAT. they don't even have a real consensus classic with the CORE AUDIENCE. and by that, I don't mean the internet or the industry or the critics. I can entertain the scarface debate, but outkast is laughable.

not that I really care, but since when did outkast become producers? must be the latter years, cuz I recall organized noise producing all their stuff.

Breh you're the one in denial. Ghetto D is not iconic at all.

OutKast isn't iconic because I said so. You have Chuck D who gave his objective opinion even after saying that Run DMC is his favorite group that OutKast is the GOAT group. His opinion is more valid than yours and mine. Why? He is a part of a legendary group himself. He's influenced legends, contributed to the culture and shifted the culture.

Breh, Scarface's music is recognizable to anyone serious about Hip Hop. Your same argument works against you in terms of P vs. Kast.

If you didn't know OutKast produced a lot of their own music starting with ATLiens, you really don't have any business discussing them.

 

[OHSNAP!]

Problem with Outkast is: mainstream treats 'em as weirdos with some big hits (Ms Jackson, The Way You Move, Hey Ya...) while their terrific profound original body of work (ATLiens, Aquemini mainly) gets overlooked

Meanwhile hiphop fans love Outkast for their pitch perfect work and deep original experimental tunes, but despise their groundbreaking success (and great radiofriendly singles) with the masses via SB/LB (and Stankonia somewhat), while they have no problems with this issue when it comes to Pac or Biggie

When they're gone, it's gonna be an uproar of love by the public, just like when Prince or MJ died. Instead of truly appreciating them now, so they're able to enjoy it

 

[OHSNAP!]

Meanwhile Face is only known by hiphop fans anyway, and most would indeed say he's an icon, but yeah just in hiphop circles. He's not comparable to Pac, Big, Jay, Wu etc in terms of recognition by the masses

 

[Wacky D]

Breh you're the one in denial. Ghetto D is not iconic at all.

OutKast isn't iconic because I said so. You have Chuck D who gave his objective opinion even after saying that Run DMC is his favorite group that OutKast is the GOAT group. His opinion is more valid than yours and mine. Why? He is a part of a legendary group himself. He's influenced legends, contributed to the culture and shifted the culture.

Breh, Scarface's music is recognizable to anyone serious about Hip Hop. Your same argument works against you in terms of P vs. Kast.

If you didn't know OutKast produced a lot of their own music starting with ATLiens, you really don't have any business discussing them.

lol @ ghetto d not being iconic. that's easily the most important album from the south.

they got props from chuck d. great. but i'd be more interesting to hear ho the whole staten island feels, aside from just a guy whose pushing 60 and was already bordlerline out of touch before outkast even came out.

like I said, stop googling quotes and get caught up with whats really going on.

I heard all of outkast albums except idlewild. that's all that matters. I don't have to study their credits. LOL. you sound like youre desperate to make some sort of point.

you guys are over-estimated the reach of scarface. prolly because yall are from the south.

Problem with Outkast is: mainstream treats 'em as weirdos with some big hits (Ms Jackson, The Way You Move, Hey Ya...) while their terrific profound original body of work (ATLiens, Aquemini mainly) gets overlooked

Meanwhile hiphop fans love Outkast for their pitch perfect work and deep original experimental tunes, but despise their groundbreaking success (and great radiofriendly singles) with the masses via SB/LB (and Stankonia somewhat), while they have no problems with this issue when it comes to Pac or Biggie

When they're gone, it's gonna be an uproar of love by the public, just like when Prince or MJ died. Instead of truly appreciating them now, so they're able to enjoy it

the mainstream loves outkast actually.
as for general rap fans, they don't have outkast. they just don't care about them. theres nothing iconic about that. i'd rather be hated than be a group that's just around.
outkast is like a multi-niche group. they tapped into a bunch of niche audiences and got paid. but they never hit the core.

there was an uproar when prince & Michael Jackson died because mike is the most popular artist ever, and prince is somewhere in the top 10. outkast is not even in the same stratosphere.

how did outkast make pitch-perfect work? theyre one of the groups I'm getting at with this thread actually:
Are We Willing To Admit That Backpack/Conscious/Alternative Rappers Are Graded On A Curve?

Meanwhile Face is only known by hiphop fans anyway, and most would indeed say he's an icon, but yeah just in hiphop circles. He's not comparable to Pac, Big, Jay, Wu etc in terms of recognition by the masses

you guys are overestimating the reach of scarface.

theres way too many serious rap fans, that are OF AGE that aren't familiar with his music like that.

I'm sorry but that's not iconic. hes like a kool g. rap.
an all-time legend that you can even refer to as a top 10 goat rapper. but NOT an icon.

and I guess I'm tougher on things like this.
I'm not sold on wutang as icons either. the logo is more iconic than they are, if we want to be real. and I'm saying that as someone who is from traditionally the 2nd biggest wutang city.

 

[OHSNAP!]

lol @ ghetto d not being iconic. that's easily the most important album from the south.

they got props from chuck d. great. but i'd be more interesting to hear ho the whole staten island feels, aside from just a guy whose pushing 60 and was already bordlerline out of touch before outkast even came out.

like I said, stop googling quotes and get caught up with whats really going on.

I heard all of outkast albums except idlewild. that's all that matters. I don't have to study their credits. LOL. you sound like youre desperate to make some sort of point.

you guys are over-estimated the reach of scarface. prolly because yall are from the south.





the mainstream loves outkast actually.
as for general rap fans, they don't have outkast. they just don't care about them. theres nothing iconic about that. i'd rather be hated than be a group that's just around.
outkast is like a multi-niche group. they tapped into a bunch of niche audiences and got paid. but they never hit the core.

there was an uproar when prince & Michael Jackson died because mike is the most popular artist ever, and prince is somewhere in the top 10. outkast is not even in the same stratosphere.

how did outkast make pitch-perfect work? theyre one of the groups I'm getting at with this thread actually:
Are We Willing To Admit That Backpack/Conscious/Alternative Rappers Are Graded On A Curve?





you guys are overestimating the reach of scarface.

theres way too many serious rap fans, that are OF AGE that aren't familiar with his music like that.

I'm sorry but that's not iconic. hes like a kool g. rap.
an all-time legend that you can even refer to as a top 10 goat rapper. but NOT an icon.

and I guess I'm tougher on things like this.
I'm not sold on wutang as icons either. the logo is more iconic than they are, if we want to be real. and I'm saying that as someone who is from traditionally the 2nd biggest wutang city.

Regardless of icon status of Face and Kast (make a poll!), their body of work is among the best there is

Even today, Face puts out highest-quality albums (see my avi)

Outkast's first 3 albums and most of Stankonia and SB/TLB are bonafide stonecold classics to 95% of the people that listened to those

 

[Wacky D]

Regardless of icon status of Face and Kast (make a poll!), their body of work is among the best there is

Outkast's first 3 albums and most of Stankonia and SB/TLB are bonafide stonecold classics to 95% of the people that listened to those

yea but 95% of the people that listen to outkast albums and rank em highly are people who are heavy into their chit.
theyre not a group that gets many objective listens, simply because the general rap fan was never on them like that. hence, the main reason why theyre not legit icons, no matter who cosigns them or how hard the media pushes it.

people aren't gonna listen to an outkast album, study it, critique it & debate about it like they would do a jay-z album or even an album from someone like say fabulous, who is nowhere near icon status.
I see you like outkast, but you gotta admit, the interest level is far under par.

and come one man, even a lot of outkast stans aren't gassing up stankonia & SB/TLB like that.

make a poll for what? of course the polls are gonna be in their favor here.
with all the nerds here(no offense to anybody), outkast is in good standing.
and on a board where alot of people are stuck in a fantasy rap world & think prodigy is more famous than t-boz & larenz tate, of course most people here will vote scarface as an icon.
whats the point?