‘The Acolyte' | Star Wars Disney+ series about the rise of the Sith

[Jmare007]

Not enough to cancel this dumpster fire abomination...

It needs to get the Ghostbusters 2016 treatment, it never happened...

There also needs to be an audit, there is no way 180 million dollars was spent creating this mess...

It looked like a high school nerd LARP with PS2 cutscene graphics...

Lucas Films is shady as fukk, same thing happened with the latest Indiana Jones film having a 300 million budget. Like, how in the name of fukk that happens and no one does anything about it

 

[Standing on business]

Yea I do wonder where money be going with these budgets

$100 million for the color purple

 

[Ari Gold Bawse]

We all wasted hours on that trash

Done my guy Sol dirty

 

[En Sabah Nur]

Killing off the biggest name in the cast 5 minutes into the first episode was a clear-cut indicator of incompetent creators and the awfulness that would follow the rest of the series.

 

[Conz]

Killing off the biggest name in the cast 5 minutes into the first episode was a clear-cut indicator of incompetent creators and the awfulness that would follow the rest of the series.

she came back though in the flashback episode! and then later in the flashback episode that 75% the same but from a different character's perspective!

 

[Lannister]

Agreed, they bait these responses and it's clearly apart of the marketing. I just don't understand the point in constantly elevating actors who resent the series or seem dead set on trolling certain fans. Like....what's the point of this? "Haha white guys are mad" may appeal to a few online black people but it's not a real strategy to get black people to watch your shyt. And instead of creating compelling black/women/gay/etc characters they'd rather just throw out these carbon copy, generic characters nobody likes beyond the blue checks on twitter who are invested in pimping this nonsense. Remember when we were kids and would see some random Star Wars character toy we never heard of at the store? Brolo Mustapha, smuggler from the planet Antonio 74. That's the quality of character creation for these shows. We need a woman smuggler who is cool and says men are worthless and she's the greatest pilot in the universe. Or we need a black jedi who is the best jedi at everything and taught all the jedis how to use a lightsaber properly. Like seriously....what are we doing here.

You cannot create compelling characters when your goal is solely to create someone that inspires some kid, or makes a black woman with a septum ring write a 50 tweet thread about how [inset generic black woman character with dreadlocks] changed her life. That's not storytelling, it's pandering. It's insulting to black/women/gay/hispanic/etc people and it's not sustainable.

Most of this shyt is aimed at kids or families. Superman, Wonder Woman, Captain America, Goku, Luke Skywalker.etc are all power fantasy characters aimed at kids, that have endured for decades. They are supremely powerful or highly skilled, almost always saves the day, very few if any flaws.etc. Superman, in particular, is probably the most idealistic character ever created. I'm sure most people at one point in their childhood(or lives), have tied a cape around their necks, literally or figuratively, and pretended they could fly.


That said, I don't personally find those type of characters interesting(I only like MCU Cap), but that's just me, the rest of the world throughout time disagrees.

 

[Days of Future Piff]

Objectively the Acolyte was a mess.

1. The acting.: Everyone outside of Lee Jung Jae and Manny Jacinto were middling with Rebecca Henderson ("Venestra") being downright terrible.

Amandla Stenberg was unforgivably awful. Her delivery was wooden. She used one expression for every scene ("mouth slightly agape, eyes bucked, conveying concern"). She gave Mae and Osha little personality.

IN her defense, modern Star Wars is already challenging because actors are on sterile green screened sets, in make up and costume all day and sometimes talking to thin air. In her case though, all of the above AND the script/direction gave her no help. And then they ask even more of her and make her play a dual role, which was a cheesy mistake. She was clearly outside of her element and its shocking that the execs at Disney havent realized that actors need stronger scripts and direction to make Star Wars work.

Like I dont think its a coincidence that "Andor" with its superb direction, script, and practical sets and on location filming has so far and away been the BEST acted piece of Star Wars thats come from disney. Shame that the execs havent put two and two together on this one.

2. The Activism: I dont wanna go all "Critical Drinker" but this project, from jump, seemed centered around making a point of challenging conventions of Star Wars as a allegory to real world issues. Its central premise of even the most well intended institutions becoming corrupt and oppressive, the inclusion of the lesbian space witches, the choice to have a gay director, the gay subtext between certain characters, all of this seemed to be the primary goals FIRST with understanding how it fit into Star Wars coming LATER and it just didnt work.

To contrast this to "Andor", Tony Gilroy infamously isnt a fan of Star Wars. BUT, he saw the potential in telling the story of mundane evil and how the small, incremental slide to authoritarianism is what simultaneously allows the individuals in the system to justify their actions AND inspires revolution from those who grow sick of it. It was genius and it fit right in with the existing Star Wars universe as we never got the "man on the street" perspective of the Empires reign.

It seems that someone had the idea of "what if the Jedi were like the church with Faqs IRL stopping our free love and expression? ?" and then sunk 180 million dollars into that pretty flimsy idea.

3. The boxed themselves in with their setting!: The Acolyte did a really good job of limiting story prior to the shows airing. All anyone really knew it was a story that took place in the Old Republic centering around a female who is seduced down a dark Force road. And this was exciting because this took place well before the movies meaning the story wouldnt be constrained by having to line up with the movies.

Oh wait, no, they actually fukked this up by having the stakes of the story be so massive .

Given that the Phantom Menace is about conflict interrupting a thousand years of peace, what the fukk was season 2 going to be about? Have Yoda and Venestra either be so corrupt that they bury a case of 10! Jedi being murdered to save face with the Senate OR have them be so inept/lazy that they just "ehh fukk it " to the idea that a Dark Force User and his force abomination apprentice are running around? ("lol but see they werent SITH so TPM isnt retconned" )

How could that realistically have been reconciled without tarnishing the Jedi? I think Headland and crew underestimated the fact that the Jedi are one of the traditional models of heroism and altruism in the West, even moreso than Superman.

It was never going to be acceptable to retcon them as "just another cowardly and corrupt institution" and i cant help but think Headland and her LGBT/"ARRGGH SMASH THE PATRIARCHY AND HIEARCHAL SOCIETY" hive mind was running point with that decision and Disney wasnt gonna be the company to tell a LGBT fem creative "no".

Overall Im sad that the show failed because i was genuinely excited about a Jedi/Sith tale that featured non Skywalkers and Jedi/Sith related to them.

You’re not wrong. Introducing the sith at this point in the timeline contradicts the prequel lore, and it makes the Jedi look shady and incompetent. Yoda was able to sense the deaths of the Jedi when the Clone Wars and Order 66 were popping off. When Anakin killed all the Tusken Raiders, Yoda was able to sense that too. So how would the Jedi not notice a sith killing ten of their own during peacetime? And why would they cover that up just to save face with the Senate? Shouldn’t the Jedi be above that?

The other thing I don’t love about the show is the attempted put the Jedi and Sith on equal moral ground. That comparison just doesn’t work. Juicing and hitting the gym are not the same.

The creator refers to Sol as a “benign sexist” in interviews because he refused to fight back and save himself in the end.
The show fundamentally missed the point of the light and dark side conflict at the heart of Star Wars.

When Anakin turned, he got that quick power rush, but he ruined his life and doomed the galaxy in the process. This was intentional—George Lucas was trying to make a point. Juicing and hitting the gym are not the same.

 

[MikelArteta]

Objectively the Acolyte was a mess.

1. The acting.: Everyone outside of Lee Jung Jae and Manny Jacinto were middling with Rebecca Henderson ("Venestra") being downright terrible.

Amandla Stenberg was unforgivably awful. Her delivery was wooden. She used one expression for every scene ("mouth slightly agape, eyes bucked, conveying concern"). She gave Mae and Osha little personality.

IN her defense, modern Star Wars is already challenging because actors are on sterile green screened sets, in make up and costume all day and sometimes talking to thin air. In her case though, all of the above AND the script/direction gave her no help. And then they ask even more of her and make her play a dual role, which was a cheesy mistake. She was clearly outside of her element and its shocking that the execs at Disney havent realized that actors need stronger scripts and direction to make Star Wars work.

Like I dont think its a coincidence that "Andor" with its superb direction, script, and practical sets and on location filming has so far and away been the BEST acted piece of Star Wars thats come from disney. Shame that the execs havent put two and two together on this one.

2. The Activism: I dont wanna go all "Critical Drinker" but this project, from jump, seemed centered around making a point of challenging conventions of Star Wars as a allegory to real world issues. Its central premise of even the most well intended institutions becoming corrupt and oppressive, the inclusion of the lesbian space witches, the choice to have a gay director, the gay subtext between certain characters, all of this seemed to be the primary goals FIRST with understanding how it fit into Star Wars coming LATER and it just didnt work.

To contrast this to "Andor", Tony Gilroy infamously isnt a fan of Star Wars. BUT, he saw the potential in telling the story of mundane evil and how the small, incremental slide to authoritarianism is what simultaneously allows the individuals in the system to justify their actions AND inspires revolution from those who grow sick of it. It was genius and it fit right in with the existing Star Wars universe as we never got the "man on the street" perspective of the Empires reign.

It seems that someone had the idea of "what if the Jedi were like the church with Faqs IRL stopping our free love and expression? ?" and then sunk 180 million dollars into that pretty flimsy idea.

3. The boxed themselves in with their setting!: The Acolyte did a really good job of limiting story prior to the shows airing. All anyone really knew it was a story that took place in the Old Republic centering around a female who is seduced down a dark Force road. And this was exciting because this took place well before the movies meaning the story wouldnt be constrained by having to line up with the movies.

Oh wait, no, they actually fukked this up by having the stakes of the story be so massive .

Given that the Phantom Menace is about conflict interrupting a thousand years of peace, what the fukk was season 2 going to be about? Have Yoda and Venestra either be so corrupt that they bury a case of 10! Jedi being murdered to save face with the Senate OR have them be so inept/lazy that they just "ehh fukk it " to the idea that a Dark Force User and his force abomination apprentice are running around? ("lol but see they werent SITH so TPM isnt retconned" )

How could that realistically have been reconciled without tarnishing the Jedi? I think Headland and crew underestimated the fact that the Jedi are one of the traditional models of heroism and altruism in the West, even moreso than Superman.

It was never going to be acceptable to retcon them as "just another cowardly and corrupt institution" and i cant help but think Headland and her LGBT/"ARRGGH SMASH THE PATRIARCHY AND HIEARCHAL SOCIETY" hive mind was running point with that decision and Disney wasnt gonna be the company to tell a LGBT fem creative "no".

Overall Im sad that the show failed because i was genuinely excited about a Jedi/Sith tale that featured non Skywalkers and Jedi/Sith related to them.

excellent points breh

 

[MajesticLion]

The creator refers to Sol as a “benign sexist” in interviews because he refused to fight back and save himself in the end.

 

[Days of Future Piff]

“What’s so interesting about that moment, where Osha kills Sol, is how much is conveyed even while he’s choking on his words. Also, and maybe this was my impression of it, but my first thought was, “He doesn’t even give her the agency to make this choice herself because he’s accepting his fate.” It just adds so much more insult to injury. You can’t even let her get a satisfactory kill because you’re like, “It’s okay.” It’s so good!

We also knew that it was always going to be the betrayal of the father, and I knew we had to juxtapose Luke’s forgiveness and Vader’s redemption. We’re like, “This is a story about the Sith, so that’s not gonna happen.” You’re absolutely right. There’s this thing that’s called benign sexism, and part of it is this paternal protectionism — it seems like this good thing, but like you said, there’s this, “I have to protect you from everything. I have to make sure you’re okay. I have to tell you what track to get on, and then once you’re on that track, I need to support you.”Again, I’m so proud of it. I have so many favorite moments in the show. I have, like, 100, and I’m happy to go through all of them right now. One of my favorite moments is when he says, “I did everything because I love–” He’s going to say, “I love you,” and not only is that a level of attachment that an unbalanced Jedi would have — he very clearly is losing it in the last half of the season — but that’s also the justification for that kind of behavior between the father and the daughter.
Ultimately, what happens is — again, this is a father-daughter relationship — as women evolve in their lives and develop their own personalities separate from their fathers, at some point, they have to reject that protectionism.The daughter has to surpass him in some way. She cannot stay a little girl or an adolescent or young adult. She has to, at some point, say, “I reject what you have told me I need to do to make you proud, to follow in your footsteps.” She has to do that. I do think when he says, “It’s okay,” I think you’re right. He is imposing on her agency at that point. But I do think, in a weird way, she needed it. She needed his acceptance. Not his approval, but his acceptance of his fate, I think, is what gives her that energy to do the final fist clench.

source: Leslye Headland Reveals Osha Killed Master Sol in 'The Acolyte' Due to "Benign Sexism": "He is imposing on her agency at that point"

Her words, not mine

Now compare that to the George Lucas quote that @Soymuscle Mike shared just earlier:

GEORGE LUCAS: The core issue, ultimately, is greed, possessiveness - the inability to let go. Not only to hold on to material things, which is greed, but to hold on to life, to the people you love - to not accept the reality of life’s passages and changes, which is to say things come, things go. Everything changes. Anakin becomes emotionally attached to things, his mother, his wife. That’s why he falls - because he does not have the ability to let go.

No human can let go. It’s very hard. Ultimately, we do let go because it’s inevitable; you do die, and you do lose your loved ones. But while you’re alive, you can’t be obsessed with holding on. As Yoda says in this one, [The scene in which Anakin seeks Yoda’s counsel] You must learn to let go of everything you’re afraid to let go of.’ Because holding on is in the same category and the precursor to greed. And that’s what a Sith is. A Sith is somebody that is absolutely obsessed with gaining more and more power - but for what? Nothing, except that it becomes an obsession to get more. The Jedi are trained to let go. They’re trained from birth, they’re not supposed to form attachments. They can love people- in fact, they should love everybody. They should love their enemies; they should love the Sith. But they can’t form attachments. So, what all these movies are about is: greed. Greed is a source of pain and suffering for everybody. And the ultimate state of greed is the desire to cheat death.

You can tell George Lucas’s third eye opened up when he said this.
Yeah, he made mistakes here and there, but you can see that he was still operating on a totally different level morally, spiritually, and philosophically compared to modern day creators.

Side note: who remembers that time he called Disney a bunch of “white slavers”?

 

[Belize King]

Star wars needs a massive overhaul

Tell that to the head of Lucas Films division. She isn’t hitting the right spots. I have no dog in the race, but it seems as though the stories she is telling or choosing aren’t the right ones for the fan base.

Truth be told it’s the casting that whyte America hates.

 

[42 Monks]

Tell that to the head of Lucas Films division. She isn’t hitting the right spots. I have no dog in the race, but it seems as though the stories she is telling or choosing aren’t the right ones for the fan base.

Truth be told it’s the casting that whyte America hates.

ahsoka did fine with a black lead lol. even with its hurdles it - it never looked completely unserious like this show did start to finish

like yal were vibing to the Power of Many when it dropped cmon now

 

[Jaguar93]

Her words, not mine

Now compare that to the George Lucas quote that @Soymuscle Mike shared just earlier:



You can tell George Lucas’s third eye opened up when he said this.
Yeah, he made mistakes here and there, but you can see that he was still operating on a totally different level morally, spiritually, and philosophically compared to modern day creators.

Side note: who remembers that time he called Disney a bunch of “white slavers”?

Lucas can only blame himself. Bro should’ve had a trusted protege to lead the franchise in his absence. And made sure his ideas and lore stayed intact. The IP is Disney’s now that’s including lore, canon, etc. And they’re free to change whatever they pleases. Lucas shouldn’t sold the franchise but then again. That’s what many people wanted after the prequels.

 

[TDT]

All the finger pointing towards the"incels" and"haters" still going on on Twitter

..plus the usual suspects(Harry Knowles,Drew Mcweeny,Devin Faraci,Grace Randolph,Jeff Snieder) who were shilling The Acolyte now blocking people who trying to tell them the real reasons why the show was cancelled

 

[Ethnic Vagina Finder]

Time to keep in a buck.

Star Wars has always been cheesy. The cartoons have always been better.

But it got a pass because of the time in between movies, and it was only 3 trilogies.

Then Disney took it over and basically exposed how cheesy it is by oversaturating the market with it.


Rogue One to this day is the best Star Wars product they've put out, but it gets the least amount of praise. Ironically Andor got one of the best reviews of all the TV shows.


Disney managed to fukk up Marvel and Star Wars