how can u go over the top from murder? butch cosigned it, ie betrayed phil at that point.
Phil was still trying to go by the code that you don't hit a boss, but the Coco thing was the last straw in their little tit for tat and Phil was bitter about his brother anyway. End of the day those feelings finally overcame his loyalty to the code and he put the hits out.
They got Sil and Bobby which was a strong enough blow to Jersey, but Tony was too hard to get to and the longer they stayed looking for him the longer the dry spell, the higher the chances they could get hit...end of the day they're in that shyt to make money and war was fukking it up. If there was still a discussion to be had to they should have had it and they did.
You have to understand those were sociopaths so murder doesn't carry the same weight. It's not some titanic thing you can't come back from in their world, it's just the cost of doing business sometimes. You can have a standing hit and if you resolve something that's more beneficial than the murder you take it off the table.
For example Junior tried to get Tony back in season 1 and they eventually grew back relatively close.
why would butch give up? he said cuz it went too far and cuz phil changed. but ny was up and phil was sticking to the plan. they gave no reason for him to turn like that. promising restitution too?
Don't make dollars it don't make sense..Butchie was smart enough to realize if guys are on the mattresses they aren't out making money and all that violence is going to blow their spots up. Feds will let racketeering and shyt go to an extent but once it gets violent they crack down for the sake of the public.
Butchie wanted Tony but not at the sake of his livelihood. At the end of the day Phil was being stubborn, wouldn't even tell him where he was, Butchie probably asked himself why he was even at war risking his life....and at the crux of their issue was Phil being too fixated on revenge for revenge's sake. He was a bad boss because of that and Butchie realized it...impending death will make you think things through
And don't forget Phil said "we're gonna talk after this" when they were on the phone...who knows what that was supposed to mean.
And as far as restitution that's how they play, at the end of a war when they come to a resolution shyt like that is part of the "treaty". Above all else once you take the oath you're in and your family is going to be taken care of once you're not able to. It's a respect thing..Bobby got hit and Janice was gonna get a package because part of the resolution of the conflict is realizing they had made a mistake by killing him in the first place.
not to mention, agent harris tipped tony before the meeting with butch. so what would tony need a meeting for at that point, and to ask for phils location?
they could have thought it out better than that.
Before? Not IIRC...When Tony asked for a 20 on Phil from Butchie he said "I can't go there"...which was pride because he didn't want to tell Tony Phil wouldn't even tell him where he was, but I don't think he would've even if he had known. Harris gave him the tip after they had already shook hands and agreed, that's why Tony felt so comfortable with his men being out looking for Phil, because noone was looking for them.
that soprano's ending ?
- Thread starter bangbreh
- Start date
They did in spots here and there...when Phil was ranting about how corny New Jersey was and how they needed to get at them he was talking about "they don't even have swords at the making ceremony"...Butchie was like
that's irrelevantOr there was one instance where Phil was ranting and the fat guy was like "calm down", Phil was like no and kept going. They dropped in little hints and scenes to show you his bitterness about his cousin was affecting his judgement.
I mean as a viewer you knew once Phil was officially boss his feelings would eventually spiral them into all out conflict because he was too stubborn to forget. Tony spent the whole time kissing his ass because of that
JayYoung314
St. Louis Survivor
tony got wacked plain and simple, fans are just too stubborn to admit it. Obviously the creator didnt want to show it happen, so thats how the show ends. Tony's dead, get over it. Crying about the best ending in tv history because it was too artistic instead of a just in your face and blatant assassination. 
JayYoung314
St. Louis Survivor
nah mob members dont target family too unless they had somethin 2 do with the hit itself, but than again carmela did know alot, but they probably just wanted tony. either way that man died. u could tell by the look of fear in his eyes before the scene cut off.
Black_Jesus
Superstar
The ending was ass, just like most HBO series endings
u were right bout butch he was coppin pleas in china town. but the tip came 5 minutes before the meeting.
StAFresh923
Rookie
Tony ain't dead. Chase had no idea what direction he wanted to go in. He was still hoping for another season or movie. It's obvious. That ending leaves open every possibility. Frustrating, but brilliant.
Box Cutta
Bumbling Sidekick
I always took the ending as simply representative of the type of fear that Tony would live for the rest of his life...no matter how long or how short.
Every person is a suspect. Every little inconvenience (Being late because you couldn't park) has significance. Something as small as eating onion rings with your family is a matter of risk.
Of course, I wasn't heavy on the show....had no idea that the consensus was that he was definitely killed. I thought that more people looked at it symbolically but like I said, I didn't fukk with it like that.
Regardless, I do like it.
Every person is a suspect. Every little inconvenience (Being late because you couldn't park) has significance. Something as small as eating onion rings with your family is a matter of risk.
Of course, I wasn't heavy on the show....had no idea that the consensus was that he was definitely killed. I thought that more people looked at it symbolically but like I said, I didn't fukk with it like that.
Regardless, I do like it.
Ricky Church
Stole Timberlake's Spaceship-Coupe
one of my favorite shows and one of the best tv shows, shyt was on the air for madd long, but it still feels like they didn't have enough episodes (only 86) 
I wish they'd bring it back with the original cast but we all know that's not gonna happen...
I wish they'd bring it back with the original cast but we all know that's not gonna happen...
and that one time he was like ''dont tell me what to do jimmy''. i think jimmy was harris's friends ny informant cuz it could only be him or butch. phil and johnny sac was the hardest tho. what do u think about tony accepting fakkits?
dennis roadman
nuclear war in my bag
what do u think about tony accepting fakkits?
tony was a fat self-centered prick. vito was his best earner, as long as he was able to eat capicola and watch war movies, he didn't give a shyt who other people were banging.
phil was all hung up on corny ritualistic code for the sake of code bullshyt.
tony was a pretty bad boss but phil was worse. tony made bad decisions, phil already knew what decision to make even before the problem arose. no flexibility in his leadership at all.
what i think is interesting about the whole show is that it's about a fairly listless boss. there's a reason they mention that things were good when jackie was boss. jackie takes over from founder of family and things go well. everyone is eating. no wars, good relations with lupertazzis. tony takes over on a fukking break of luck in jackie dying of cancer, and we can only presume that the family gets buried in the war with ny. terrible, terrible leader. if anyone has seen or read The Damned United, it's like the mob version of that.
maybe i'm forgetting something, but why was it that they only dealt with lupertazzis in bk and not other NY families?