Tamir Rice case (12yo boy shot while carrying BB gun) - FULL VID RELEASED on 01/08/15

[No_bammer_weed]

Not replying to the content of your post but what convinces you that those scenarios aren't likely ? And that they are the only ones possible ?

If any those scenarios from a 12 year old boy are more likely to you than a cop overreacting (yet again!) when encountering a black "suspect" then you are welcomed to your opinion.

 

[Jutt]

We do know what the cops knew leading to the situation. The 911 caller said it was a kid and it was probably a toy, there was also no shots fired or threats of violence from the victim.

And Cops are supposed to be trained profesionals. Humans are humans is no excuse. If I fukk up at my job I can't look at my boss and go "humans are humans"

The adults paid and trained to severe and protect should be blamed when they fail to do so. Not the 12 year old kid.

I'm sure your job doesn't have to do with stressful situations that can cause life or death, so let's go ahead and scratch that off the list. If for a second you may think your life is in danger or anyone else's normal logic goes out the window. Again, it's easy to sit there and pick apart everything when you're not in the situation, just because the 911 caller said it was probably a gun, doesn't mean that the dispatcher relayed that information to the police.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

I'm sure your job doesn't have to do with stressful situations that can cause life or death, so let's go ahead and scratch that off the list.

Actually it does, a mistake on my job could mean a plane falling out of the sky, but that's beside the point. You are hired and trained to do a job, you fukk up, there's no excuses.

If I certify a part to be airworthy and the plane falls out of the sky I can't blame it on stress or the parts suppliers or anyone else. I signed my name to that part just like the officer signed his name to that bullet. He should be responsible for the consequences.

If for a second you may think your life is in danger or anyone else's normal logic goes out the window. Again, it's easy to sit there and pick apart everything when you're not in the situation, just because the 911 caller said it was probably a gun, doesn't mean that the dispatcher relayed that information to the police.

And none of this should excuse an officer from using deadly force when its not needed. They know its a dangerous and stressful job. They took an oath to protect and serve. You can't throw an oath and your job description in the bushes everytime you are afraid.

 

[Brown_Pride]

@Brown_Pride

Since we're talking about rates and data sets, what is the rate for 12 year old preteens killing police officers in this country? In my adult life, I cant remember hearing about one case like that, although I could be wrong. If the cop shot an adult....Okay, we need more info. But killing a child who didnt even have a real weapon is an indefensible act from law enforcement. You cant shrug this off.

In order to believe the cop's story that a 12 year old was an imminent threat, we have to shift from the officer and examine the potential motivations of the child, because the child is now dead and can no longer defend himself.

again let me be clear. I'm not saying shooting the kid was a perfect resolution to this problem it's a horrible tragedy. What i'm saying is that YOU KNOW that the gun was fake. The cop didn't. The rate of kids who kill people isn't really the question at had now is it? If I show you evidence of 1 kid under 12 killing someone can we agree a 12 year old with a gun is capable of killing multiple people can we agree that ANYONE with a gun is a potential threat?

So either the child: A) Was ready to go toes with a police officer in a shootout armed with only a BB gun. B) He was suicidal, and wanted a death by cop. C) He was so mischievous that he wanted to continue his pranking and intimidating, even with a cop who had a loaded weapon pointed at him.

My suspicion is that the 12 year old saw the cop and wanted to show the cop that it wasn't a real gun. Which to someone not knowing it's not a real gun can look very much like the kid was reaching for the gun. Again defaulting back to public safety and personal safety the officer then has the right to defend himself from a perceived threat, in this case the ending result was horrific.

Neither of these scenarios are likely. Whats more likely is that this was a killing from a inexperienced, poorly trained bad cop, who was probably informed by the racist tradition of not distinguishing black children from grown adults.

that's a lot of assumption on your part, see how easy it is to assume things and your life isn't even on the line. I don't know the cop, don' t know his history fuk for all we know he's the most racist guy on the planet...or maybe he's not. Perhaps, just perhaps he's a cop that arrived on a scene where he thought someone had a gun and was pointing it at people. He then sees the suspect and the suspect reaches for a weapon. WTF is he supposed to do at this point? Wait for the suspect to shoot at him first, dodge the bullet and then return fire?

As a trained officer, he has to know that pulling a gun on a child is going to excite the youngster and induce panic. Again, the officer was not responding to shots fired, and once he arrived he HAS to assess the situation and its likely and inherent dangers. It was just a child who was playing around man. You cant kill him unless its the last resort...not because you got "spooked".

IF (big if) the kid reached for a weapon IMHO the cop had every right to fire. I mean it really is that simple. Kid or not someone who already has a weapon drawn on them and THEN decides to reach for a weapon is going to do only one thing with that weapon. The fact that it was a BB gun is irrelevant to the situation (at least based on the facts i've seen), the fact that the kid was only 12 is irrelevant, again kids kill people the world over on a daily basis with guns.

I get where people come from on bad cops I just don't think there's enough evidence or proof of what happened to say the cop was 100% in the wrong here. Hell I don't even see where I could say the cop was eve half wrong here.

Please everyone teach your kids to A. Not toy around with weapons( a bb gun is not a toy). B. When a cop shows up go into slow mow mode and not reach for shyt. FREEZE.

 

[Brown_Pride]

Actually it does, a mistake on my job could mean a plane falling out of the sky, but that's beside the point. You are hired and trained to do a job, you fukk up, there's no excuses.

If I certify a part to be airworthy and the plane falls out of the sky I can't blame it on stress or the parts suppliers or anyone else. I signed my name to that part just like the officer signed his name to that bullet. He should be responsible for the consequences.



And none of this should excuse an officer from using deadly force when its not needed. They know its a dangerous and stressful job. They took an oath to protect and serve. You can't throw an oath and your job description in the bushes everytime you are afraid.

They did take an oath to serve and protect and that sounds exactly like what the cop was trying to do.
Let me ask you, would you be as upset if the 12 year old was 35? Would it then be ok for the cop to have shot a man reaching for a gun in his waistband?

 

[Jutt]

Actually it does, a mistake on my job could mean a plane falling out of the sky, but that's beside the point. You are hired and trained to do a job, you fukk up, there's no excuses.

If I certify a part to be airworthy and the plane falls out of the sky I can't blame it on stress or the parts suppliers or anyone else. I signed my name to that part just like the officer signed his name to that bullet. He should be responsible for the consequences.



And none of this should excuse an officer from using deadly force when its not needed. They know its a dangerous and stressful job. They took an oath to protect and serve. You can't throw an oath and your job description in the bushes everytime you are afraid.

But is YOUR life threatened? No. Nice of you to gloss over my other points though. Move along

 

[MeachTheMonster]

They did take an oath to serve and protect and that sounds exactly like what the cop was trying to do.
Let me ask you, would you be as upset if the 12 year old was 35? Would it then be ok for the cop to have shot a man reaching for a gun in his waistband?

"Trying to do" is not "doing". This cop failed the community. At the very least he should be disciplined at work or put in further training.

I'd still be upset, but going in knowing this is a kid and it might be a toy, I'd think some extra restraint would be reasonable.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

But is YOUR life threatened? No. Nice of you to gloss over my other points though. Move along

You're the one glossing over things. And yes my life is threatened at work, I work with dangerous chemicals and high voltage levels, hence why I said it was stressful.

But again that's beside the point.

You are paid to do a job, there's no excuse when you mess up. Especially if your "excuse" is something that comes inherently with the job

 

[Yapdatfool]

@Brown_Pride & @Jutt
Do y'all think the cop should be charged with anything? Should he lose his job?

Not that he will anyways, but just wanna ask, seem as though killing a kid with a bb gun is the kids fault just at much as the cop to y'all...

 

[Liu Kang]

If any those scenarios from a 12 year old boy are more likely to you than a cop overreacting (yet again!) when encountering a black "suspect" then you are welcomed to your opinion.

I was just wondering why you closed down the probable scenarios to those 3 specifically and also why you thought those 3 scenarios were necessarily exclusive to the cop overreacting.

Anyway, I have no real opinion though I consider that police training everywhere in the world is deficient and way too "fear for your life at all times"-based and that their mistakes is, on top of that, amplified by the type of weaponry they use. I'm not American but I do believe that US gun culture (sheriff/western stuff / second amendment) is also a reason for "your" trigger-happy / shoot first, think later police. I also believe that racism plays a part in the over-representation of black victims of police brutality though I think it's a layer on top of the gun-loving culture one considering that police also kills unarmed non-black people.

I find really disturbing how easy US police use lethal force (sometimes without warning, often without proper threats). But I'm also aware that because guns are legal in the US, it's only right that police have guns on them, else it would be... illogical. Therefore, I don't find it illogical for them to use their guns as their first choice of action because I assume that's simply the result of a global (American) state of mind...

 

[Brown_Pride]

@Brown_Pride & @Jutt
Do y'all think the cop should be charged with anything? Should he lose his job?

Not that he will anyways, but just wanna ask, seem as though killing a kid with a bb gun is the kids fault just at much as the cop to y'all...

Personally no, no I don't. He acted as I'd expect a cop to act. It's a tragedy but ultimately no I don't think he did anything wrong. (again based on what i know. If more shyt comes out and dude cleary fuked up then yeah burn this fuker at the stake...but for now, no.)

 

[Brown_Pride]

"Trying to do" is not "doing". This cop failed the community. At the very least he should be disciplined at work or put in further training.

I'd still be upset, but going in knowing this is a kid and it might be a toy, I'd think some extra restraint would be reasonable.

So you'd be upset if a cop shot a grown man reaching for a gun?

 

[Brown_Pride]

I find really disturbing as easy US police use lethal force (sometimes without warning, often without proper threats). But I'm also aware that because guns are legal in the US, it's only right that police have guns on them, else it would be... illogical. Therefore, I don't find it illogical for them to use their guns as their first choice of action because I assume that's simply the result of a global (American) state of mind...

basically this.
The choice isn't ideal but given the number of circumstances leading up to this crap situation IMHO the actions make sense...

 

[MeachTheMonster]

So you'd be upset if a cop shot a grown man reaching for a gun?

Yes. If that man was not threatening or pointing a gun at anyone.

Cops can peacefully apprehend armed murderers due to their training and ability to asses imminent danger. A non threatening person with a "maybe" gun shouldn't be so difficult.

 

[Jutt]

@Brown_Pride & @Jutt
Do y'all think the cop should be charged with anything? Should he lose his job?

Not that he will anyways, but just wanna ask, seem as though killing a kid with a bb gun is the kids fault just at much as the cop to y'all...

I mean, based off of what I've seen/heard. I don't think he's done anything outside of how a cop would act in that very moment. It's just a fukked up situation all around. Almost literally worst case scenario. But like I said, based off of whats been put out there, he was justified, as terrible as it sounds.

Yes. If that man was not threatening or pointing a gun at anyone.

Cops can peacefully apprehend armed murderers due to their training and ability to asses imminent danger. A non threatening person with a "maybe" gun shouldn't be so difficult.

The kid was pointing it at people though