Tamir Rice case (12yo boy shot while carrying BB gun) - FULL VID RELEASED on 01/08/15

[Jutt]

it wasn't an error though now was it. I say that based on a few assumptions, if these assumptions are wrong then sure the cop fuked up and in that case needs to be charged with something.

I assume that cops are able to defend themselves against threats.
I assume that cops are trained to view the drawing of a gun on them as a threat.

If either of those is false then draw up charges. If not then the cop handle the situation as trained.

There's really no point in debating him, he picks out the tiniest part of what we've said an ran to hyperboleland.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

it wasn't an error though now was it. I say that based on a few assumptions, if these assumptions are wrong then sure the cop fuked up and in that case needs to be charged with something.

It was an error. A kid who posed no threat to anyone is dead.

I'm not willing to chalk that up to "unfortunate events". It was very preventable.

I assume that cops are able to defend themselves against threats.
I assume that cops are trained to view the drawing of a gun on them as a threat.

If either of those is false then draw up charges. If not then the cop handle the situation as trained.

Why did only one cop shoot?

 

[Brown_Pride]

It was an error. A kid who posed no threat to anyone is dead.

I'm not willing to chalk that up to "unfortunate events". It was very preventable.

The knowledge that the kid posed no threat wasn't known until after the fact. not sure how you don't see that.

Why did only one cop shoot?

not sure it's possible he didn't see the kid go for the gun or wasn't in a position to shoot. Good question though.

 

[Liu Kang]

Just theorizing what the motivations would be from a child that would justify the cop killing him. Either the kid was hell bent on killing the officer (probably not he didnt have a real gun); the kid was suicidal and wanted to die by cop that day; or the kid had zero regard for the gravity of the situation and decided to point the BB gun at the officer in an act of aggression. If neither of these scenarios are likely, then how do we justify the killing? Thats an open question, btw.

It seems like @Brown_Pride is being selective in what he deems relevant or irrelevant to the discussion. The only relevant fact to him is not the details of scenario of which the cop encountered, and of whom he encountered, but whatever the cop's personal determination was in handling that situation. We may have a global police force state of mind, but we also have a constitution, laws, and a set of principles and moral leanings that protect us as a citizenry in a free society. The act of lethal force by an officer should and must be held to the highest scrutiny, and its a scrutiny you guys seem to want to remove. Thats not defensible in my mind.

I don't want to remove anything

Anyway, about your scenarios, I'm just saying that you limit them to 3 and that seems arbitrary above all when you make them necessarily mutually exclusive to the cop overreacting. The fact the cop overreacted is not disputed (at least, by me) but one of those 3 scenarios (maybe more I don't know) that you talked about could have also took place, objectively speaking.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

The knowledge that the kid posed no threat wasn't known until after the fact. not sure how you don't see that.

They had no knowledge that he did pose a threat. That's my problem. CONFIRM the threat before shooting.

He made a reactionary decision based off emotion. Something you decried earlier in this thread.

not sure it's possible he didn't see the kid go for the gun or wasn't in a position to shoot. Good question though.

Nah you want to avoid the only logical answer. It's because he didn't see an imminent threat. He wasn't willing to kill a kid based of his own fear.

 

[Brown_Pride]

They had no knowledge that he did pose a threat. That's my problem. CONFIRM the threat before shooting.

He made a reactionary decision based off emotion. Something you decried earlier in this thread.


Nah you want to avoid the only logical answer. It's because he didn't see an imminent threat. He wasn't willing to kill a kid based of his own fear.

In what world is someone reaching for a gun when you have a gun drawn on them not a threat?

 

[MeachTheMonster]

In what world is someone reaching for a gun when you have a gun drawn on them not a threat?

In the world were its legal to carry a gun.

In the world were the person has not enacted any violence, is not currently showing any violence, and has not pointed the gun at you.

In the world when one police officer was able to correctly identify that the kid posed no threat.

What I don't want to live in is the world where police are allowed to shoot people cause they are afraid.

 

[Brown_Pride]

In the world were its legal to carry a gun.

it wasn't legal for a 12 year old to have that gun.

In the world were the person has not enacted any violence, is not currently showing any violence, and has not pointed the gun at you.

drawing a weapon on someone is an threat, particularly at a cop and particularly when said cop already has his gun on you.

In the world when one police officer was able to correctly identify that the kid posed no threat.

pretty irresponsible to assume you know why. I don't so I wont comment until I hear from the cop who didn't shoot.

What I don't want to live in is the world where police are allowed to shoot people cause they are afraid.

Then you need to find another planet because the world you want to live in isn't realistic.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

it wasn't legal for a 12 year old to have that gun.

So the sentence is death?

drawing a weapon on someone is an threat, particularly at a cop and particularly when said cop already has his gun on you.

pretty irresponsible to assume you know why. I don't so I wont comment until I hear from the cop who didn't shoot.

You have no problem assuming why the cop did shoot.

Then you need to find another planet because the world you want to live in isn't realistic.

Only when your skin is a certain color.

 

[Brown_Pride]

So the sentence is death?

no.

You have no problem assuming why the cop did shoot.

You're right I assume he shot because he feared the gun being drawn was going to be used to potentially murder him and/or someone else. You assume he killed the kid because he likes kiling kids? I'll stick to my assumption.

Only when your skin is a certain color.

there are times when things like this are about race, as of yet i'm not sure that's what this is.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

@Brown_Pride let's flip it around.

Lets say a citizen heard that some cops were up to know good. He approaches them, they reach for their waste, the citizen shoots.

Is he justified? You think he'd get off free?

 

[Brown_Pride]

@Brown_Pride let's flip it around.

Lets say a citizen heard that some cops were up to know good. He approaches them, they reach for their waste, the citizen shoots.

Is he justified? You think he'd get off free?

I'd expect the citizen to call the authorities, if for whatever reason he came out and the cops let's say were going to kill someone for no reason then YEAH IMHO the citizen has every right to shoot.

But this isn't really what happened now is it...

 

[MeachTheMonster]

no.


You're right I assume he shot because he feared the gun being drawn was going to be used to potentially murder him and/or someone else. You assume he killed the kid because he likes kiling kids? I'll stick to my assumption.

I NEVER said he liked killing kids. It's very insulting for you to claim that I did. I said he did poorly at his job of protecting and serving.

there are times when things like this are about race, as of yet i'm not sure that's what this is.

Its a fact that people in this country view black people as threatening. You advocate a cops right to shoot people they are afraid of. Therefore you advocate the disproportional killing of black people at the hands of police.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

I'd expect the citizen to call the authorities, if for whatever reason he came out and the cops let's say were going to kill someone for no reason then YEAH IMHO the citizen has every right to shoot.

But this isn't really what happened now is it...

No don't try to change it. The kid wasn't "going to kill someone".

He reached for his waste that's all we know. In a similar circumstance would a civilian be justified for killing?

 

[Brown_Pride]

I NEVER said he liked killing kids. It's very insulting for you to claim that I did. I said he did poorly at his job of protecting and serving.

Its a fact that people in this country view black people as threatening. You advocate a cops right to shoot people they are afraid of. Therefore you advocate the disproportional killing of black people at the hands of police.

lol holy shyt son talk about a logical leap.
I'm hispanic, you like arguing with me, clearly you like arguing with all hispanics...

I advocate a cop's right to protect both himself and others from deadly threats.