Street Harassment [TW]
- Thread starter Matt504
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CriticalThought
All Star
You don't need facts, or hard evidence. That's the beauty of it. All you need is shaming tactics, ad hominem attacks, "how do you fix it?" attempted hit pieces, and don't talk about the actual nuts and bolts (the meat and potatoes) of the legislation. Then they get mad at you because ask common sense questions and the people who are for it can't answer a damn question!
Tweet #2 was priceless...."every story reported". But I get it, they figure everyone is dumb, stupid, and weak minded to see through obvious bullshyt or too scared to call them on it.
Reported just like they reported it with the street harassment video they circulated on youtube that they acknowledge selectively edited out white men? That kind of reporting?
Snitchin Splatter
Working With The Feds
I was just harassed the other day. I was walking down the street as usual with my head phones one, when this young man was touching me and asked me for my number for at least 25 minutes. he kept on touching me and i yelled at him to stop. lucky thing an older man was there to protect me from that creep. how the hell a man just stock you for more than 20 minutes when you told him no several times.
CinnaSlim
Queen of Swords
Americans/western society believe in the dichotomy of gender and masculinity/femininity. It is also a patriarchy, so following their beliefs; if men are the stronger sex, then females are the weaker sex.The idea is that listening to "feminists" and doing what they want leads to the "feminization of men" - I hear this term all the time and I don't quite understand it. I don't understand how relating better to women as a whole is an erosion to my manhood. It's amazing how everything nowadays - particularly feminism and homosexuality - is somehow an attempt to feminize men (black men in particular). Even now, I'm doing a disservice to the topic at hand - it's actually about women and their struggle with street harassment, and I'm literally talking about men. As an aside, I'm not sure how my speaking up is helping right now because nobody has really listened to me...
But at the topic itself, I find that when women talk about these incidents happening to them, there is always someone that minimizes it's importance and makes little of it. This is something I noticed a lot on twitter as well as occasionally in real life. It is similar to the Bill Cosby situation - only after there was proof he did what he did, that was when it was taken more seriously. Just that 30-40 women just happened to be lying. It's that perception of "she must be lying" or "she should have done", "she should have etc" - that leads to victim blaming, and ultimately lends quite a big of credence to the theory that there is indeed a rape culture, as much as that is something that men would never want to admit.
Masculine = strong, feminine = weak; men = logical, women = emotional
Following this logic, a man doing anything that is considered feminine, makes him appear weak. The strongest men are respected, thus those who are weak get less respect.
As we know from history, feelings of superiority usually lead to the abuse and lack of sympathy for those who are considered inferior. Giving people derogatory names, helps dehumanize them and make them seem even more different than you. When you are so far removed from something, you have less sympathy for them, like smashing a bug. Bugs aren't like people. They don't feel.
***
That also brings up the cognitive dissonance that whites had toward blacks people especially black women. Black people were considered to be hypersexual, superstrong animals. They needed less sleep and less food, so it was ok to overwork them. They were stronger than white folks, so they felt less pain so they could endure harsher punishments. Black women were promiscuous and hypersexual so they couldn't be raped.
That same idea is used for all women who are considered sluts and whores. Which is why I am adamantly against slut shaming. You do not have to agree with people's lifestyles but at the end of the day, they are still people. It's not ok to abuse them. It's not ok to blame the victim.
Hitler did the same with the Jews, used propaganda to create a culture that looked down on jews, and blamed them for The state of Germany post WWII. These people went from being there neighbors and friends to enemies and pests needing to be destroyed.
I'm not saying that it's gotten that far with women. But all oppressors follow the same formula. When you distance yourself from people and put yourself on a pedestal, it's easy to dismiss people and not feel any kind of empathy.
(I didn't even go that far into rape culture with this post.)
CriticalThought
All Star
The people who were vilified were black/latino men in the street harassment video. So by WWII metrics the "Jews" are actually them since they're the one being slandered and used as propaganda to further a cause. And you all just like the Nazi's had no problem using racial attacks to further your ideology.
This also parallels the Reichstag fire. Use a situation, politicize it for your own aims and agendas and enact sweeping legislation designed to take away rights for your own aims without debate or discussion as to how it would impact Germany citizenry.
Kinda weird how you all claim to be the "Jews" but your behaviors, attitudes and tactics resemble the Nazis more.
Anybody who disagrees is "against you" just like how Bush used that tactic to silence discussion about Iraq having WMD and eventually got America stuck. You have ISIS running around today, all because people wouldn't listen. The gift that keeps on giving right?
Just like Iraq, you're still wanting to engage in a half-assed plan (calling this that is actually an overstatement). But you'll try to shame and silence anyone down the road that brings it up the facts your side doesn't have it's shyt together. But rather than listen and make a real plan, you'll sling as much shyt at the wall hoping it sticks. I really hope all get your shyt together. Because what you have is significantly lacking. Even you all can see that.
this wouldn't even be a conversation in the first place if men simply stopped harassing and harming women, it's literally that simple, no legislation or "white daddy" required, but men have every excuse in the world as to why that's just not an option because "I know my intention isn't to harass, I just have to convince her" and that bullshyt isn't gonna fly.
you should do yourself a favor and spend a bit of time browsing the #YouOkSis hashtag on twitter.
https://twitter.com/search?q=#youoksis&src=typd
CinnaSlim
Queen of Swords
Who are yall? Who's tactics? What plan?
Are you grouping all women's advocates together? All feminists? All women? Things are not that simple, there is such a thing as intersectionality.
I already talked about the power of propaganda. That street harassment video was used as propaganda. Doesn't mean street harassment or women's right aren't real issues. They used a real issue to gain attention and momentum to get their twisted message across but people caught on.
CriticalThought
All Star
this wouldn't even be a conversation in the first place if men simply stopped harassing and harming women, it's literally that simple, no legislation or "white daddy" required, but men have every excuse in the world as to why that's just not an option because "I know my intention isn't to harass, I just have to convince her" and that bullshyt isn't gonna fly.
you should do yourself a favor and spend a bit of time browsing the #YouOkSis hashtag on twitter.
https://twitter.com/search?q=#youoksis&src=typd
Glad to see your sexism is showing. It's not just women who get street harassed, it's men too (I know you don't want to acknowledge that but it's true). And it's not just men harassing their counterpart, but also members of the same sex. But I understand, keep it at it's most basic discourse, let's pretend it's as simple as men and women. Anybody can be street harassed irrespective of gender I don't understand how that's a hard concept to grasp. And that harassment isn't just sexual in nature either. Who/what defines that harassment? It's kind of a big issue.
I know people expect some law to come down and magically stop it but that's not the real world. Does anti-racism laws stop racism? What about drug, domestic abuse, gun violence laws? No. At best, it's a bandage for a gunshot. At best it might deter a fraction of people at best. So in this world, a law gets passed and people magically stop? If that's your thought process it's off. That's not being pessimistic that's being realistic. People aren't always good nor will they always do the right thing. I keep asking how you will solve it but you all can't/won't provide any details....because it's more complex than you want to acknowledge.
Do you know any of these people that you want me to read? I don't know the first thing about them or their character. And I don't think you do either. I'm just not one that easily falls for propaganda. It's not my fault they polluted the water before it even got to this point. If they have no problem using racism/prejudice/white supremacy then why should I trust them now? What proof do you have that they now have good intentions?
It shouldn't have to be this way. You all are advocating, yet not one policy paper uploaded? Not one 5 or 10 point plan to get this off the ground? I shouldn't have to jump and argue in the theoretically realm something that should be outlined in the physical realm. I ask questions, and I'm not ashamed of that. Yet no answers, so my questions keep producing more questions which gives me no reason to believe this will come out well.
I understand you all are grasping at straws so I'll leave it at this. ANYBODY who has the guts I have a challenge for you. And we'll see if you'll take me up on that challenge. I doubt it but we'll see.
You make a thread on TLR advertising you have a blank check (not a cashier's check or money order or anything else...a blank check) to give to someone. All they have to do is say they have a problem. No statistical/empirical evidence has to be shown to show how widespread and/or pervasive the problem is, no explanation of how to fix the problem needs to be given, nor any documentation or blueprints on how to solve the problem needs to be produced. They get a signed blank check and they get to fill in the amount. And we'll say something reasonable $100. Of course it's on the honor system. And we'll see if they do what they're supposed to do or something else.
If you are willing to take up that challenge then let me know.
That resembles (close enough) what you all are advocating so we'll see who's real enough to do it in real life. If nobody does (which honestly I expect) I won't hold even hold your hypocrisy against you. After all, you're only one person...this law has the possibility of impacting hundreds of millions of Americans.You already know my issues with it. I don't believe in "blank checks" especially to groups that already have shown themselves to be shady from the beginning. We'll consider that even since there's some shady characters on the Coli as well. We'll see who's bout it. If you're willing to do as an individual what you want us to do collectively I'll let you cook. But honestly, I don't think you all are willing to walk it how you talk it. We'll see who's bout it.
wet landscapes
ghost
Glad to see your sexism is showing. It's not just women who get street harassed, it's men too (I know you don't want to acknowledge that but it's true). And it's not just men harassing their counterpart, but also members of the same sex. But I understand, keep it at it's most basic discourse, let's pretend it's as simple as men and women. Anybody can be street harassed irrespective of gender I don't understand how that's a hard concept to grasp. And that harassment isn't just sexual in nature either. Who/what defines that harassment? It's kind of a big issue.
I know people expect some law to come down and magically stop it but that's not the real world. Does anti-racism laws stop racism? What about drug, domestic abuse, gun violence laws? No. At best, it's a bandage for a gunshot. At best it might deter a fraction of people at best. So in this world, a law gets passed and people magically stop? If that's your thought process it's off. That's not being pessimistic that's being realistic. People aren't always good nor will they always do the right thing. I keep asking how you will solve it but you all can't/won't provide any details....because it's more complex than you want to acknowledge.
Do you know any of these people that you want me to read? I don't know the first thing about them or their character. And I don't think you do either. I'm just not one that easily falls for propaganda. It's not my fault they polluted the water before it even got to this point. If they have no problem using racism/prejudice/white supremacy then why should I trust them now? What proof do you have that they now have good intentions?
It shouldn't have to be this way. You all are advocating, yet not one policy paper uploaded? Not one 5 or 10 point plan to get this off the ground? I shouldn't have to jump and argue in the theoretically realm something that should be outlined in the physical realm. I ask questions, and I'm not ashamed of that. Yet no answers, so my questions keep producing more questions which gives me no reason to believe this will come out well.
I understand you all are grasping at straws so I'll leave it at this. ANYBODY who has the guts I have a challenge for you. And we'll see if you'll take me up on that challenge. I doubt it but we'll see.
You make a thread on TLR advertising you have a blank check (not a cashier's check or money order or anything else...a blank check) to give to someone. All they have to do is say they have a problem. No statistical/empirical evidence has to be shown to show how widespread and/or pervasive the problem is, no explanation of how to fix the problem needs to be given, nor any documentation or blueprints on how to solve the problem needs to be produced. They get a signed blank check and they get to fill in the amount. And we'll say something reasonable $100. Of course it's on the honor system. And we'll see if they do what they're supposed to do or something else.
If you are willing to take up that challenge then let me know.
That resembles (close enough) what you all are advocating so we'll see who's real enough to do it in real life. If nobody does (which honestly I expect) I won't hold even hold your hypocrisy against you. After all, you're only one person...this law has the possibility of impacting hundreds of millions of Americans.You already know my issues with it. I don't believe in "blank checks" especially to groups that already have shown themselves to be shady from the beginning. We'll consider that even since there's some shady characters on the Coli as well. We'll see who's bout it. If you're willing to do as an individual what you want us to do collectively I'll let you cook. But honestly, I don't think you all are willing to walk it how you talk it. We'll see who's bout it.
all this condescending language because women want more boundaries for men approaching them as strangers based off of what they believe is unacceptable and intolerable behavior
agnosticlady
AL loves da kids : )
But a man talking to you is not street harassment. I've had men talk to me on the street.
This is street harassment to me
-Touching someone inappropriately while they are walking down the street (while you're walking a man gropes your butt)
-Saying sexually inappropriate words to someone on the street (Hey sweetie you got a nice ass)
-If you tell a man that you do not want to know him more and he cusses you out, starts stalking you, and etc
I know what street harassment is. A man once followed me from store to store until I threatened to call the police, and another man tried to stick his hands down my pants when I was at a train station. I have other examples, but honestly most men that I come across on the street are not harassing me. Now on the other hand if where you live you are constantly facing street harassment you probably live around savages and you need to move. i have no problem with black women talking about street harassment, but a man wanting trying to have a conversation with you is not street harassment.
CriticalThought
All Star
all this condescending language because women want more boundaries for men approaching them as strangers based off of what they believe is unacceptable and intolerable behavior
It's not condescending. That might be your interpretation because you're bias. I've said my peace so y'all do what y'all do. I take it you won't do the challenge either? But I like what you posted, and that seems to be crux of the issue. And there in lies the rub, who determines what is and what isn't unacceptable and intolerable behavior? Who gets to be the judge, jury and executioner for that? You?
This is where the problem begins. That's all relative as to what is and is not unacceptable/intolerable behavior. I don't get to set the standard. And I wouldn't even if I could. Because it isn't just about me, there's everyone else too. They have just as much right to disagree. There's a thing called the Constitution like it or not.
The moment I run around trying to legislate/regulate someone else's behavior, then I should expect the same to happen to me. It's a slippery slope and everyone ends up miserable at the end.
I'm against gay marriage because I view it as unacceptable and intolerable behavior. But guess what? I don't have the right to exclusively set the standard or deny any homosexual the rights and protections that I myself expect to have. And it'll only be a matter of time before my number is called and I will have to take the lashes I've dished out.
CinnaSlim
Queen of Swords
Glad to see your sexism is showing. It's not just women who get street harassed, it's men too (I know you don't want to acknowledge that but it's true). And it's not just men harassing their counterpart, but also members of the same sex. But I understand, keep it at it's most basic discourse, let's pretend it's as simple as men and women. Anybody can be street harassed irrespective of gender I don't understand how that's a hard concept to grasp. And that harassment isn't just sexual in nature either. Who/what defines that harassment? It's kind of a big issue.
I know people expect some law to come down and magically stop it but that's not the real world. Does anti-racism laws stop racism? What about drug, domestic abuse, gun violence laws? No. At best, it's a bandage for a gunshot. At best it might deter a fraction of people at best. So in this world, a law gets passed and people magically stop? If that's your thought process it's off. That's not being pessimistic that's being realistic. People aren't always good nor will they always do the right thing. I keep asking how you will solve it but you all can't/won't provide any details....because it's more complex than you want to acknowledge.
Do you know any of these people that you want me to read? I don't know the first thing about them or their character. And I don't think you do either. I'm just not one that easily falls for propaganda. It's not my fault they polluted the water before it even got to this point. If they have no problem using racism/prejudice/white supremacy then why should I trust them now? What proof do you have that they now have good intentions?
It shouldn't have to be this way. You all are advocating, yet not one policy paper uploaded? Not one 5 or 10 point plan to get this off the ground? I shouldn't have to jump and argue in the theoretically realm something that should be outlined in the physical realm. I ask questions, and I'm not ashamed of that. Yet no answers, so my questions keep producing more questions which gives me no reason to believe this will come out well.
I understand you all are grasping at straws so I'll leave it at this. ANYBODY who has the guts I have a challenge for you. And we'll see if you'll take me up on that challenge. I doubt it but we'll see.
You make a thread on TLR advertising you have a blank check (not a cashier's check or money order or anything else...a blank check) to give to someone. All they have to do is say they have a problem. No statistical/empirical evidence has to be shown to show how widespread and/or pervasive the problem is, no explanation of how to fix the problem needs to be given, nor any documentation or blueprints on how to solve the problem needs to be produced. They get a signed blank check and they get to fill in the amount. And we'll say something reasonable $100. Of course it's on the honor system. And we'll see if they do what they're supposed to do or something else.
If you are willing to take up that challenge then let me know.
That resembles (close enough) what you all are advocating so we'll see who's real enough to do it in real life. If nobody does (which honestly I expect) I won't hold even hold your hypocrisy against you. After all, you're only one person...this law has the possibility of impacting hundreds of millions of Americans.You already know my issues with it. I don't believe in "blank checks" especially to groups that already have shown themselves to be shady from the beginning. We'll consider that even since there's some shady characters on the Coli as well. We'll see who's bout it. If you're willing to do as an individual what you want us to do collectively I'll let you cook. But honestly, I don't think you all are willing to walk it how you talk it. We'll see who's bout it.
You seem to be grouping a bunch of different people together as if they have the same goal, agenda or plan.
As I've stated in other street harrassment threads, unless I am mistaken there is no need for legislation against common street harrassment. There is already legislation against assault and stalking. It is a cultural issue, just like etiquette. Some men, many even are practicing faux pas (or whatever is the plural) by being too aggressive and not listening to when a woman says no.
No is pretty simple to understand. Men have to become aware and respect when a woman is uninterested, respect personal boundaries, respect women's bodies.
If men are being harassed they have the same right to be upset. Everyone should be able to feel safe going about their day.
I don't understand the point of your challenge, what it has to do with the issue at hand or what point you're trying to prove so I'll skip that.
Gay marriage is not a good analogy because two people getting married has what to do with you? How is affecting you?
However, if an individual comes into your personal space and harasses you or tries to convince you to marry a man then you may have a point there.
wet landscapes
ghost
stop
nikkas have pressed me out, groped my chest, shoved me in pools, called me a bald headed bytch and I get approached A FRACTION of the amount women and young girls get approached
I've seen girls get treated so terribly and I have seen how it has shaped a generation of women
with all due respect, what you're doing, and what you have been doing from your first post in here, is just detract from and diminish the issue
if you don't think it's an issue, I can't make you believe it is
but you don't need to come in here and try to explain to people who think the earth is round that it's flat
and pls, gay marriage is passively "offensive" while street harrassment is aggressively and immediately offensive
philmonroe
Superstar
Why don't you stop harassing women then maybe we can take what you say seriously mr I only holler at women in the clubs even though didn't ask you to holler at them. If your only proof is twitter my dude ain't nobody taking you serious. You know how much bullshyt people say on twitter? Its just funny that this is mainly online stuff when this stuff comes up IRL and or with girls you know they have a different view almost unanimously wonder why? Let me guess they are scarred of all the big bad men going upside their head for disagreeing. This why this stuff isn't always taken serious because outside of the obvious stuff no matter what you and some of these chicks say its way more people that don't see most of the stuff y'all claim is "street harassment" is that. That right there messes up your argument when the only thing the majority can agree on is obvious stuff like some of the stories in here that nobody has condoned.this wouldn't even be a conversation in the first place if men simply stopped harassing and harming women, it's literally that simple, no legislation or "white daddy" required, but men have every excuse in the world as to why that's just not an option because "I know my intention isn't to harass, I just have to convince her" and that bullshyt isn't gonna fly.
you should do yourself a favor and spend a bit of time browsing the #YouOkSis hashtag on twitter.
https://twitter.com/search?q=#youoksis&src=typd
agnosticlady
AL loves da kids : )
stop
nikkas have pressed me out, groped my chest, shoved me in pools, called me a bald headed bytch and I get approached A FRACTION of the amount women and young girls get approached
I've seen girls get treated so terribly and I have seen how it has shaped a generation of women
with all due respect, what you're doing, and what you have been doing from your first post in here, is just detract from and diminish the issue
if you don't think it's an issue, I can't make you believe it is
but you don't need to come in here and try to explain to people who think the earth is round that it's flat
and pls, gay marriage is passively "offensive" while street harrassment is aggressively and immediately offensive
Those men are savages. I only see bummy dudes that hang around the corner doing that. If it's not a bummy dude then it's a mentally sick person that should be locked up. If you don't mind me asking do you live in a major city?