Steve Stoute: "The older generation didn't care about lyrics. That's why Illmatic took 5 years to go Gold. G Rap never got rewarded for lyrics"
- Thread starter FreshAIG
- Start date
Cats didn't buy Big L.
They didn't buy Lord Finesse.
They didn't buy Lord Tariq
They didn't buy Jay until he went pop.
They didn't buy Nas until he went pop.
They didn't buy anything with Black Thought.
They didn't buy Hiero, Alkaholiks, Ras Kass, Freestyle Fellowship, Chino XL.
They didn't buy Kurupt.
They didn't buy K-Rino.
They didn't buy Common Sense.
They didn't buy Joe Buddens, lol.
They stopped buying Kane.
They stopped buying Rakim.
They stopped buying KRS.
Chuck D? Kool Keith? LOL
If Pun didn't do the remix of I'm not a Player with Joe - they would not have bought him either.
They didn't buy KMD and sure as hell as not buying MF Doom.
TBH, that's okay.
Hip Hop is a party music, made for partying.
Sitting back and listening to an album, trying to understand what the artist is saying on a deeper level, the artist even trying to make some "art" - is how folks deal with rock music, and anything else that's album oriented.
Steve is in the business of selling the culture - and he's telling you what sells now and what sold then.
Yet cats don't want to a listen to a guy that got rich on selling hip hop, about selling hip hop....
This mf spittin.
nikkas stay responding with emotion on here.
Great art has always stood the test of time and has often been appreciated more years later. That doesn't do anything for that artist in that moment though. I can't buy groceries or a crib or shyt keep my deal with the promise of this album will be considered seminal decades from now. That also doesn't help other comparable artists get on. I believe that is what Stoute is talking about. If Nas doesn't "sell out" (other's words not mine) with IWW is he even around to enjoy the fruits of Illmatic? If Jay doesn't dumb down to double his dollars does he sniff the GOAT convo? Does he sniff a billy or Beyonce?
I hear what you are saying about being well rounded but there is a clear bias to certain aspects. An artist with great production, wide reaching hits, or a certain image but not necessarily the greatest lyrics can and always has be more successful than an artist with great lyrics that lacks in those other areas. We all know artists with great lyrical acumen that don't get their just due. How many artists are their with great production, wide reaching hits, or a certain image can you say that about? Hip Hop is no different from any other art form. That which is easily digestible and palatable will get attention and money thrown at it. True artistry is hit or miss, with a whole lot of (in the moment) miss.
Mac Ten
Class of 97 !!!
G Rap should have had a better career…
A label like Loud Records would have been good for him in the 90s.
Maybe if he followed the Steve Stoute route could have helped him as well.
Nas had to swallow his pride and enlist his help which was a good thing.
It Was Written became one of Nas’ critically acclaimed projects
A label like Loud Records would have been good for him in the 90s.
Maybe if he followed the Steve Stoute route could have helped him as well.
Nas had to swallow his pride and enlist his help which was a good thing.
It Was Written became one of Nas’ critically acclaimed projects
kingdizzy01
ATXBBOY
this hereCats didn't buy Big L.
They didn't buy Lord Finesse.
They didn't buy Lord Tariq
They didn't buy Jay until he went pop.
They didn't buy Nas until he went pop.
They didn't buy anything with Black Thought.
They didn't buy Hiero, Alkaholiks, Ras Kass, Freestyle Fellowship, Chino XL.
They didn't buy Kurupt.
They didn't buy K-Rino.
They didn't buy Common Sense.
They didn't buy Joe Buddens, lol.
They stopped buying Kane.
They stopped buying Rakim.
They stopped buying KRS.
Chuck D? Kool Keith? LOL
If Pun didn't do the remix of I'm not a Player with Joe - they would not have bought him either.
They didn't buy KMD and sure as hell as not buying MF Doom.
TBH, that's okay.
Hip Hop is a party music, made for partying.
Sitting back and listening to an album, trying to understand what the artist is saying on a deeper level, the artist even trying to make some "art" - is how folks deal with rock music, and anything else that's album oriented.
Steve is in the business of selling the culture - and he's telling you what sells now and what sold then.
Yet cats don't want to a listen to a guy that got rich on selling hip hop, about selling hip hop....
Is something wrong in Stoute's head, like 4real? I know dude in the music business but dude
literally only sees $$. Dude been mentally fukked in the industry.
Even Lyor got more love for the hip-hop culture than this dude.
FukkaPaidEmail
Retired Hoodrat whisperer
So only platinum matters ? To reach that you need a certain demographic to buy your record . About half of those albums are not held in high regard by the culture..
Let’s just look at 91
Quik is the name
De La Soul is Dead
Low End Theory
All went Gold that year and are held in a higher regard than a good chunk of those albums that sold more initially in 91 …So is it that ppl didn’t care about lyrics like that or white/passive listeners went to more easily digestible music ? The fact that those albums still have legs and survived shows that lyrics were a big thing ..and the moment the white/casual audience got tired of those poppy acts without em they vanished
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Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
Now puff gone.
Now I guess he is gonna try to make another run of culture thievery.
You nikkaz Give so many wack passes.
I will be writing that shyt to get these culture thieves out the paint till I die.
Get rid of these fukkin goofies.
Why y'all continue to not get these goofies out the paint is the issue.
fukk Steve stout.
fukkin jiggy culture thief.
Then tries to hide his hands about the issue.
Art Barr
Now I guess he is gonna try to make another run of culture thievery.
You nikkaz Give so many wack passes.
I will be writing that shyt to get these culture thieves out the paint till I die.
Get rid of these fukkin goofies.
Why y'all continue to not get these goofies out the paint is the issue.
fukk Steve stout.
fukkin jiggy culture thief.
Then tries to hide his hands about the issue.
Art Barr
Devil Plisken…CMS
Veteran
Cats didn't buy Big L.
They didn't buy Lord Finesse.
They didn't buy Lord Tariq
They didn't buy Jay until he went pop.
They didn't buy Nas until he went pop.
They didn't buy anything with Black Thought.
They didn't buy Hiero, Alkaholiks, Ras Kass, Freestyle Fellowship, Chino XL.
They didn't buy Kurupt.
They didn't buy K-Rino.
They didn't buy Common Sense.
They didn't buy Joe Buddens, lol.
They stopped buying Kane.
They stopped buying Rakim.
They stopped buying KRS.
Chuck D? Kool Keith? LOL
If Pun didn't do the remix of I'm not a Player with Joe - they would not have bought him either.
They didn't buy KMD and sure as hell as not buying MF Doom.
TBH, that's okay.
Hip Hop is a party music, made for partying.
Sitting back and listening to an album, trying to understand what the artist is saying on a deeper level, the artist even trying to make some "art" - is how folks deal with rock music, and anything else that's album oriented.
Steve is in the business of selling the culture - and he's telling you what sells now and what sold then.
Yet cats don't want to a listen to a guy that got rich on selling hip hop, about selling hip hop....
This post was a drone strike
NY STATE OF MIND HOOK
JUST REPEATS
"YOUR STATE OF MIND"
ONE LOVE HOOK JUST REPEATS
"ONE LOVE"
HALFTIME HOOK JUST REPEATS
"ITS HALF TIME"
MEMORY LANE JUST REPEATS
"LET ME TAKE A TRIP
DOWN MEMORY LANE"
ONE TIME 4 YOUR MIND JUST REPEATS
"ONE TIME 4 YOUR MIND ONE TIME"
REPRESENT JUST REPEATS
"REPRESENT REPRESENT"
IT AIN'T HARD TO TELL
JUST REPEATS
"IT HARD TO TELL"
THE POINT OF MUSIC
IS MAKING GOOD SONGS
BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE.
NOT JUST BEING LYRICAL
OF COURSE AN ARTIST
WHO MAKES GOOD SONGS
BUT ISNT SUPER LYRICAL
IS GONNA BE PREFERRED OTHER
THE CAT WHO CAN RHYME WORDS
BUT DOESNT MAKE DIGESTIBLE MUSIC.
THE MUSIC COMES FIRST.
THIS ISNT A RAP BATTLE
SAYING nikkaS DIDNT
CARE ABOUT LYRICS IS JUST
A COP OUT FOR THE GUYS
WHO COULDNT CRAFT GREAT SONGS.
THE PRODUCTION AND THE HOOK
ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT PARTS
OF SONG MAKING.
SMOKEY ROBINSON/MOTOWN
LAID THE BLUEPRINT
Breh you typed all this addressing some shyt I wasn't even talking aboutmy post is about MF Doom, and y'all are proving my points without realizing it. I'm beginning to see why y'all don't know or understand how popular Doom is
Y'all also are not listeningi explained exactly how Doom got popular but once again I'll use a reference to illustrate.
Dr Dre was heard by millions of people. How? Through the radio
Mf Doom was also heard by millions of people. How? Like I said, through Adult Swim
I don't know how old you are but using the example you used I can't pinpoint whether you know what Adult Swim is or how ubiquitous it was in the mid to late 2000s. But during breaks of Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Family Guy, King Of The Hill, etc you know what was playing? MF Doom breh. In the mid to late 2000s millions of people in their teens and twenties put their TV on Cartoon Network at night and just let Adult Swim rock. In the process they became Doom fans
I was aware of Doom because of the magazines but I ignored that shyt because I was 16 and hated boom bap at the time. Then I heard All Caps on The Boondocks and wasthis is how Doom became popular. Again it was unorthodox, but we're talking about an unorthodox nikka.
In 2006 MF Doom and Danger Mouse put out an album for free on Adult Swim's website. Millions of people heard this album breh. Shyt like this was the precursor to the coming blog era of rappers releasing music straight to the internet
So when you talk about shyt like the tri state area in relation to Doom I can tell there's a cultural blind spot somewhere
Doom is what I call a slice of life rapper. I listen to Currensy every day. Meaning at any point if I'm listening to music at some point a Currensy song will play. Doom is like this, and Doom gets played a lot in those settings. I'm talking at home chillin, studying, working etc
Again we're talking about a nikka with 8.7 million listens a month. Nikkas has 4 million more listeners than Wu Tang, and half as many listeners as Lil Yacthy. The nikka is popular breh
Marvel comics had Doom themed covers featuring his lyrics recently. The Weekend performed in a Doom mask a year ago
Mf Doom is a very popular rapper
Doom and Sean Price during that time were kings of the underground
Initially when I saw this thread I said yes Stoute is correct. But I'm seeing the disconnect all over this thread
The problem with these hip hop discussions is there are no definitions for anything. Has anyone even defined or categorized lyrical? Even in this thread? And don't hit me with some "Man you KNOW" shyt like nikkas normally do
Saying this to say lyrical can and does embody many things, and the lack of definition makes these discussions messy
I'll still say Stoute is correct, but more nuance is needed. Do "lyrical" rappers sell? No, not anymore than pretty boy, gangsta, or whatever rappers sell. The point is these things are a package deal
Was Snoop Dogg not lyrical? Jay Z? You need to check more than just the lyrical box, and keep in mind Jay in the 90s had an awful voice but he overcompensated with lyrics, imagery and production
Even bringing it back to Doom. No one gave a fukk about KMD or Zev Love X, but he created a character and aesthetic that changed everything. Doom is lyrical but his imagery and style of samples create a cohesive unit of art and culture that carries on
But if all you have is "I rap good" then no, why would anyone give a fukk about you?
Boondox Black
Pro
Elim Garak
Veteran
People cared about lyrics, but you still had to be able to make hits to sell records. Lyrics were just one aspect of this.
With Ice Spice and Mac Miller in the background, He basically proves Steve Stoute's point in like a dozen ways.
Sad that his rhetorical skills are weak, but this was a lost cause to begin with.