Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Official Thread)

Eddy Gordo

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I was one of those kids excited about watching Star Wars, but even I felt something odd about this movie being categorized as science fiction. Back then, to me, science fiction was not restricted to just movies or novels, but any expression that portrayed problems and contradictions in today's society and brought them under examination by presenting them from a different angle. 2001: A Space Odyssey, Planet of the Apes, Soylent Green, Z.P.G., Godzilla; their social commentary and philosophical perspective made them SF. At the time Star Wars was criticized in some corners for having no philosophy, and for being preposterous and childish.

Star Wars wasn't science fiction per se; it was more of a fairy tale set in space. However, it wasn't a superficial, childish soap opera either. It was a revolutionary film, set to change films altogether: a work that created a genre and a culture of its own.


It may not directly tackle themes that afflict modern society, and some might brush it off as a shallow popcorn flick, but that's not the case. It is well known that Lucas used mythologist Joseph Campbell's The Hero With a Thousand Faces as a base, and through Star Wars Lucas expanded on timeless themes such as father and son relationship and the journey into adulthood.

On top of that, by introducing ideas based on Eastern mysticism such as the Force and Jedis, he brought non-western religious and philosophical elements into the realm of science fiction (or better put: to space opera). One of those elements is how the Force extends beyond good and evil, diving into the idea of the duality persistent across all things (perhaps some of this thinking was influenced by Lucas' affection in his youth towards Akira Kurosawa's work).

There are those who claim that the success of Star Wars ended the New American Cinema, but that's not the case. George Lucas, who stood up to make films in the 1960s, had an aversion to Hollywood's system and created his own indie development company along with Francis Ford Coppola (Lucas’ debut film with the studio being THX1138). Lucas didn't end New American Cinema: he created a new way of making films.

Tech, Merch and Process
Star Wars also revolutionized the technology and business of movies. The trilogy, consisting of episodes four to six, utilized analog special effects (SFX) such as filming miniature sets with motion control cameras, while episodes one to three created aliens, droids and environmental art mostly through digital effects (VFX), always creating its worlds with state of the art technology.


Companies such as ILM, THX and Skywalker Sound were created to pursue further research and development of these technologies, and the knowledge they accumulated would go on to significantly transform the film industry on a global scale (you may remember that Pixar was also born from the CG division of Lucas Films).

Star Wars and George Lucas blazed a new path for VFX, CG, sound systems and other film technologies, and took their development to new heights. James Cameron, a few generations younger than George Lucas, would make similar contributions down the line.

Lucas continues to use the latest technologies to edit the films on each subsequent release, whether it’s the 1997 Trilogy Special Editionor other releases on DVD and Blu-ray. This was a foreshadowing of the transformation from movies as finished theatrical products to continuously morphing entities, much like social games and TV series.

On the business side, by acquiring the merchandising rights, Lucas was ahead of his time in acknowledging the potential movies had as a royalty driven business. All the merchandise born from the movies - toys, figures, games, comics, animations, etc. - helped form the Star Wars universe. And each of those provides a form of entertainment different from a movie. I can't even begin to count how many Lego sets and figures I've bought over the years!


Lucas' Star Wars movie revolution gave rise to a creative process mimicked by all films since, and established the current movie business model. Of course, The Force Awakens and The Last Jediare no exceptions. Even though The Last Jedi utilizes the latest VFX to deliver ever more astounding visuals, it's just an extension of the revolution of some 40 years past. A case in point: A lot of attention has been brought to the fact that a life-size mock-up of the Millennium Falcon was created to lend an authentic atmosphere, but the very same thing, albeit only the right half, was created way back in Episode IV. We are, in fact, not in the midst of a real technical revolution.

For each new Star Wars movie, the world setting, characters, mechanical creations and other designs must fit within the Star Wars framework, which of course makes it difficult to deliver an experience as all together new and fresh as the original. In addition, with mainline and spin-off films coming out every other year, it's impossible for a single creator to control all aspects of production. Instead, multiple directors must create films that keep fans continuously engaged, while staying within the confines of the Star Wars universe.

The Last Jedi is a movie that gallantly confronts this challenge. In fact, it is on this point that writer and director Rian Johnson really shines. Faced with the questions of how to build upon the back of an already successful revolution, and just what is the right course of action to take, Johnson chose to portray a modern, 21st century Star Wars story of succession and replacement.

The Last Jedi
Despite coming in at a new Star Wars record running time of roughly 152 min., the story of The Last Jedi is actually quite simple. Over the course of the film the resistance is constantly on the run from the dogged pursuit of the First Order. During that time Luke and Rey's succession, Kylo Ren and Supreme Leader Snoke's showdown, Rey and Kylo's Force-enabled communication, not to mention Finn and Rose's infiltration mission all play out.


As far as the story is concerned, little waves are made and there are no space-shattering conflicts. Although, to be fair this may be an inescapable result of being the second act of three parts.

In any case, the story immediately reminded me of Christopher Nolan's Dunkirk. Both are only one part of a larger story, and focus almost exclusively on the theme of escape. Like Dunkirk, The Last Jedilargely sets aside any questions about the causes of conflict and what effects the outcome may yield. Rather than tell a story, it's more concerned with effectively presenting characters and situations.

This method, akin to the portrayal of TV series characters, eschews plot progression in favor of deeper character development. Significant effort is applied to diving into and increasing the allure of characters from the previous episode: Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo, as well as a host of new characters. However, failure to follow through with these character developments yields regrettable results. Poe gets kicked to the side early on and never finds a place to shine, and Rey and Luke's interactions fail to reach a satisfying conclusion.

The Last Jedi does boast a series of striking scenes, from Kylo and Rey's intense battle with the Elite Praetorian Guard (featuring backhanded lightsaber action!), to the final showdown on the blood-like red plumes of the white salt flats.


The Force
Conversely, unlike previous episodes, there is no mention of the trade federation that initially sparked the war for the Republic or other deeper political machinations. Instead, a great deal of care is paid to the positioning of characters. This is evident in Leia's role as a female general, the heroine Rey, and Finn's Asian female compatriot Rose. The film is conscious of gender and minorities in a way that could surely not have been seen in the era of Lucas' Star Wars.

The film doesn't waste its breath on bold revolutionary or political declarations, but instead sets its gaze upon social problems the audience experiences on a daily basis. Women are not princesses waiting to be rescued, but warriors who take up arms in their own fight. This fits the trend of Disney movies as well, where the once common theme of a princess waiting for her prince has all but become the ancient past.

The revelation behind the mystery of Rey's birth also brings another of the trilogy's central social themes to light.

Rey is one of the, if not the most powerful conduits of the Force, but her parents were not Jedi - just commoners (note: this truth may very well change in the next episode). This is directly opposed to Kylo Ren, who is the son of Leia and Han Solo, and Luke Skywalker, whose father is Darth Vader. Anakin's birth is also veiled in mystery. It's said he is without father, and an abnormally large quantity of midi-chlorians in his body grant him remarkable Force powers. So, just like the others, his birth has a mysterious mythological and privileged air about it.


Until now, the Force has always been something that only the chosen can come to possess, but this assumption is turned on its head. As we learn from Luke's lesson, the Force is, in fact, omnipresent, there for everyone.

The Democratization of the Hero
Episodes one through six center around the Force and the story of Luke Skywalker and his father Darth Vader. The heroes in these episodes are all special carriers of the Force. Indeed, episodes one to three are almost exclusively focused on the birth of Darth Vader.

(As a bit of an aside, it is sometimes hypothesized that perhaps due to Metal Gear Solid 3's position as a prequel and its focus on the birth of Big Boss, it was influenced by Star Wars. Darth Vader = Big Boss, or something like that. This is wrong. I was actually referencing the structure of Planet of the Apes and Stephen Hunter's Swagger Saga.)

Just as the power of kings is passed to their lineage, so too the Force is passed to the chosen few. At least that's how we've viewed Star Wars until now. The Last Jedi throws this concept out the window. Anyone can awaken to the Force. Anyone can be the hero. The spotlight isn't reserved for those special few, it can shine on anyone. Princess Leia is no longer a princess, but a general, a position that can be replaced by another.


The same movement has happened within the world of games. Previously the hero was an elite, a chosen figure coming from a unique background or possessing special powers, but from the time of Grand Theft Auto and the like, minorities and oppressed members of society have become the heroes. In this day and age, the leading role isn't reserved just for the chosen, but anyone can become the hero = the player.

The Last Jedi may be the first attempt to free Star Wars from its era of mythology, and propel it into the present. The closing scene of the young boy hopefully gazing up at the stars is as fitting an indication of this intent as any.

In Star Wars, anyone can be the hero. That's what The Last Jedi tells us. It's a new era, starting in a kingdom without a king.

The revolutionary age of toppling kings is past. Star "Wars" has entered a new era of festivity, welcome to one and all. The "all flash and no blood" red plumes on the salt planet signify this change of stance. To ensure the stability and prosperity of the kingdom, a festival is held each year as part of a never-ending celebration. This is what it means for Disney, not George Lucas, to helm the Star Wars franchise. In the magic kingdom anyone can become prince or princess, no blood is spilled and there are no revolutions.


The Last Jedi is just the prologue.
The movie is thematically ass. We have been over this.

If anyone can be hero why did Finn get chatised for attempting the same heroic actions others had taken throughout the film.

If anyone can be a hero why didn't one of the "new kids' go stall Kylo at the end? Why did they need to wait for "THE HERO" aka Luke to save them.

The theme of the film is failure. The problem is throughout the movie characters motivations to get to those failures is dumb as hell. Instead of writing a cohesive flowing story dude wrote some shyt so he could parallel and put twists to already established moments.
 

Devilinurear

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The movie is thematically ass. We have been over this.

If anyone can be hero why did Finn get chatised for attempting the same heroic actions others had taken throughout the film.

If anyone can be a hero why didn't one of the "new kids' go stall Kylo at the end? Why did they need to wait for "THE HERO" aka Luke to save them.

The theme of the film is failure. The problem is throughout the movie characters motivations to get to those failures is dumb as hell. Instead of writing a cohesive flowing story dude wrote some shyt so he could parallel and put twists to already established moments.
Looked like ray saved the rebels to me. Luke was just a distraction.
 

Eddy Gordo

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Looked like ray saved the rebels to me. Luke was just a distraction.
She doesn't even fit the Everyman hero archetype either. Snoke flat out says the Force chose her and made her strong because Kylo is. You know who else was chosen by the force. :sas1:

Anakin:sas2:

And his ass still had to be taught Jedi mind tricks and force pulls.:sas1:

She just does the shyt. So she the chosen one of the chosen ones huh?:sas2:
 

ORDER_66

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We're actually taking advice from hideo kojima who cannot write a coherent plot with his own video game with the metal gear series?!?:heh: man that Disney check must be strong!!!! :russ: the story of TLJ had gaping plotholes and shyt that still made no sense.
Rey is literally a ridiculous strong Jedi doing all this shyt with NO training?!? Bullshyt.
Even the xmen train in the use of their powers to hone their skills prodigy or not.
How hard would it have been for Rian Johnson to write in a training montage with Luke training this chick, hardbody...:why:

Then when she gets to snoke's ship she's a match for his red guard with no training at all?!? She would have been washed IRL....
:scust:
 

Soymuscle Mike

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This idea that they are reinventing Star Wars is such utter bullshyt.

Rey, by all means, is made out to be very special. When her force 'awakened' Snoke immediately sensed it and warned Kylo. Similar to how Qui-Gon sensed Anakin when he came to Tattooine (or Luke sensed Yoda when he came to Dagobah...or Vader sensed Obi-Wan on the Death Star...etc).

Rian did NOTHING new in TLJ, except managed to find new ways to tell a shytty Star Wars story. I'll take taxation discussions over Luke tittymilking aliens.

Friend of mine texted me like, "How the hell does Jar Jar get a scene where he proudly states that his people are warriors and will not die without fighting - but Finn never once mentioned being a stormtrooper except for mopping the floor, even though he quit being a Stormtrooper like a week ago" and I was :picard: because I couldn't answer him.
 

GunRanger

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And the worst part about rey being so resolutely good, is that she gives in to dark side feelings all the time

She looked like shes gonna murder kylo in TFA

She tries to shoot kylo in the force talk impulsively.

Luke says the dark side called you and you didnt even resist. She then goes to where the dark side called her, and nothing affected her at all.

She attacks luke and washes him in a fight.
 

Axolotl

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:russ:
 

Manuel Hot Pepper Lopez

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how do you go into a movie series and NOT watch the originals beforehand they are on dvd, most places you can watch them for free???:dahell: I don't understand these casual ass moviegoers man... :mindblown: I swear I better not see any casual ass fan that goes into Avengers: Infinity War and NOT KNOW WHATS GOING ON AND HAVENT KEPT UP!!!!



YOU DIRTY fukkING CASUAL ASS FANS.... :scust:
:gucci:
Maybe people just want to check out a flick on a Saturday night and be entertained. Why does everyone have to be as emotionally invested into a movie franchise as you do? You need to calm all the way down bruh, no excuse for other people enjoying something you don't making you so emotional :wtf:
I can't enjoy a trip to Tokyo without taking 4 years of Japanese and studying the country's entire history beforehand?
 

ORDER_66

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:gucci:
Maybe people just want to check out a flick on a Saturday night and be entertained. Why does everyone have to be as emotionally invested into a movie franchise as you do? You need to calm all the way down bruh, no excuse for other people enjoying something you don't making you so emotional :wtf:
I can't enjoy a trip to Tokyo without taking 4 years of Japanese and studying the country's entire history beforehand?

So you going to japan and don't know a lick of japanese???:lolbron::mjlol:

read my follow up after that post for the answer breh..:francis:
 

Devilinurear

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She doesn't even fit the Everyman hero archetype either. Snoke flat out says the Force chose her and made her strong because Kylo is. You know who else was chosen by the force. :sas1:

Anakin:sas2:

And his ass still had to be taught Jedi mind tricks and force pulls.:sas1:

She just does the shyt. So she the chosen one of the chosen ones huh?:sas2:
But he was an ace piolet and engineer at 8 so you don't know what his skills would have been at at ray age.
 

Devilinurear

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We're actually taking advice from hideo kojima who cannot write a coherent plot with his own video game with the metal gear series?!?:heh: man that Disney check must be strong!!!! :russ: the story of TLJ had gaping plotholes and shyt that still made no sense.
Rey is literally a ridiculous strong Jedi doing all this shyt with NO training?!? Bullshyt.
Even the xmen train in the use of their powers to hone their skills prodigy or not.
How hard would it have been for Rian Johnson to write in a training montage with Luke training this chick, hardbody...:why:

Then when she gets to snoke's ship she's a match for his red guard with no training at all?!? She would have been washed IRL....
:scust:
Star wars is real life now

LMAO
 

Devilinurear

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:gucci:
Maybe people just want to check out a flick on a Saturday night and be entertained. Why does everyone have to be as emotionally invested into a movie franchise as you do? You need to calm all the way down bruh, no excuse for other people enjoying something you don't making you so emotional :wtf:
I can't enjoy a trip to Tokyo without taking 4 years of Japanese and studying the country's entire history beforehand?
I said I liked the movie and he said I was shyting on the movie. At this point it is funny to point out how ridiculous his complaints are when the franchise has done the same thing in other movies.
 

Hopeofmypeople

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But he was an ace piolet and engineer at 8 so you don't know what his skills would have been at at ray age.

Anakin isnt comparable to Rey, his dad was the force. Also his piloting skills stemmed from his ability in the force, it was actually precognition which manifested due to how powerful he was. Even still we know that he still required Training, then we have Luke who was slightly older than Rey in A New hope and he didn’t know a lick of how to use the force and his granfather was the force. Essentially someone with potential eclipsing Rey still didn’t know all of this and required Training. Also how does one explain Rey beating Kylo in light sabre combat? A skill that required training in the art of duelling. Suddenly she is able to best someone that has trained in that field for years.:troll:
 

ORDER_66

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Star wars is real life now

LMAO

You ever watch a movie and see an unrealistic fight scene and theres a suspension of belief...when rey was fighting I couldnt suspend my belief... because in the back of my mind i could NOT accept rey was washing these elite guards dolo... :childplease:

you fukking idiot...:aicmon:
 

Soymuscle Mike

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But he was an ace piolet and engineer at 8 so you don't know what his skills would have been at at ray age.

His reflexes were good. TPM also said he'd crashed all of his pods up to that point, he also got got in the Naboo spacebattle but relied on his reflexes, and R2, to save himself.

Then after 10 years of training, Dooku still completely handed his ass to him and would've killed him if it wasn't for Yoda. Dooku was also beating him in RotS, until he tapped into his anger and took over the fight. It's a bit similar to Luke in ANH/ESB - his reflexes/intuition were stronger than average (letting him survive the DS battle and blow it up), but he wasn't a match for Vader who was really just toying around with him. RotJ he also needed to go apeshyt before he could dominate the fight.

Rey defeats Kylo in TFA - but we were told 'Kylo was wounded and confused by killing Han'.
Rey kills half of Snoke's guards while Kylo, fully powered and fully embraced the dark side, gets hemmed up and SHE saves him. After that when they have their lightsaber battle she matches him, and when the ship gets torn apart she woke up before he did.

At this point she's received 0 lightsaber training from Luke, and he only got her in touch with the force once. And Kylo's the descendant of Anakin which both TFA/TLJ go on about.

It just doesn't add up, unless Kylo is actually just not that special - which contradicts Snoke/Luke's observations of him.
 
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