Soccer = Skill and Technique (USA Needs to Understand This)

Black Nate Grey

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Breh, a 31" vertical is horrific for someone his height and age, what exactly would he do different that would increase his jumping ability, seeing as he actively uses his jumping ability in the sport he's playing? I'm sure he already did squats as he was coming up and it's not like NBA guys are heavy lifters, guys are explosive leapers early on and the most they do is squats, box jumps and plyometrics, all of which Im sure Ronaldo did as well.

Okay Footballers and Basketball players both do plyometrics.
But Basketball players train this aspect of their game in a more intense fashion than footballers do.
Jumping height is one of the most crucial weapons a basketball player has.
Jumping height in football is coincidental, an after thought, training explosiveness with the goal of increasing your sprint speed and acceleration just happened to have added to your vertical too.

Footballers training plyometrics doesnt equal Basketball plyometrics.

CR training with basketball plyometrics, results in an increased vertical for him as opposed to his regular training regime.
 

Lewis Black

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White kids breh, white kids.



Fam, it took the rest of the world 12 years from losing by 40ppg on average, to actually beating Team USA in the Olympics, and if you want to get technical it took 8 years for them to give the US competitive games. These things can happen quickly if the right kids take up the sport, just like the right kids got the right coaching in basketball to be able to compete with the US.

The difference between basketball and soccer is that basketball only has one super power while soccer has, France, England, Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Spain, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Nigeria, etc If you think usa just gonna come through and smash buildings because they have one or two great athletes....im sorry breh.
 

Malta

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Now who else wanna fukk with Hollywood Court?
Okay Footballers and Basketball players both do plyometrics.
But Basketball players train this aspect of their game in a more intense fashion than footballers do.
Jumping height is one of the most crucial weapons a basketball player has.
Jumping height in football is coincidental, an after thought, training explosiveness with the goal of increasing your sprint speed and acceleration just happened to have added to your vertical too.

Footballers training plyometrics doesnt equal Basketball plyometrics.

CR training with basketball plyometrics, results in an increased vertical for him as opposed to his regular training regime.


:dead:

Dog, they went out of their way to talk about his vertical in relation to basketball players. You don't even need to seriously train to have an explosive vertical, this is a 16 year old HS kid with a 40+" vertical -


How many years of training do you think he put in to jump that high?
 

Malta

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Now who else wanna fukk with Hollywood Court?
The difference between basketball and soccer is that basketball only has one super power while soccer has, France, England, Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Spain, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Nigeria, etc If you think usa just gonna come through and smash buildings because they have one or two great athletes....im sorry breh.


Yes, there was only 1 world power in basketball in 1992, and in 2004 Argentina won the gold medal at the olympics, and now Spain has given the US two hard fought close games in 2008 and 2012 for the gold. Despite being the world power in basketball with so much more history and training behind our players, the rest of the world is starting to catch up, and it didn't take 30+ years for them to do it. It just took the right kids picking up basketballs, and the right training :yeshrug:

I have never once said the US would dominate at soccer because of the athletes, but there's no denying we would be better than we are now.
 

Black Nate Grey

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:dead:

Dog, they went out of their way to talk about his vertical in relation to basketball players. You don't even need to seriously train to have an explosive vertical, this is a 16 year old HS kid with a 40+" vertical -


How many years of training do you think he put in to jump that high?


Exactly you don't have to train that seriously, but basketball players specifically do training to increase their vertical.
Footballers (and CR) do not train to increase their vertical, like I said its an after thought, that's why they were impressed by his not so impressive vertical.
 

Malta

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Now who else wanna fukk with Hollywood Court?
Exactly you don't have to train that seriously, but basketball players specifically do training to increase their vertical.
Footballers (and CR) do not train to increase their vertical, like I said its an after thought, that's why they were impressed by his not so impressive vertical.

If you don't have to train it seriously, and his vertical is only 31", he wouldn't have been able to play basketball which is the silly point you tried to make. Your vertical should increase just by running, jumping (which he does) and workouts like squats and lunges, are you going to imply that Ronaldo didn't at some point do those workouts? :stopitslime:

:wtf: The show falsely claimed he had a higher vertical than NBA players, he doesn't, they were impressed by his vertical because to them it was pretty damn high, and all you soccer dudes have made it a point to use him in athletic comparisons to NFL/NBA players. Now, we have cold hard data on just how high he jumps and it turns into "well, he didn't train it" :dead: What about his foot speed? His 25m time is slower than a great deal of NBA/NFL players as well, you gonna say he doesn't train for speed next?
 

Miggs

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It may be a cac sport for now, but scouts are checking for the lanky black dudes.


Those really tall kids in the favelas will see Team USA basketball in two years, they'll pick up the sport soon.

Breh whats with you and this brasilian basketball agenda,you invest in an academy down there? Theyre much further than 2 years away :mjlol:
 

Miggs

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I'd like to to be honest :lupe:

You go there and see all the black & mixed folks with good footwork and tell me they aren't one single away :usure:

10 years away from competing internationally,they where we were about 6 years ago...
 

JayGatsby

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You can't win every world cup breh :what:
who said they needed to win it.......:comeon:


how about get out of the group stages .........:sas2:

has that happened to a reigning world cup winner before(i need to check)

:patrice:
 

TrueEpic08

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My goodness, this thread is a clusterfukk.

I'm going to tell a story right now, one which will illustrate the major issues with the athleticism argument, as well as what US Soccer development is lacking no matter what types of athletes play the game (as such, it'll illustrate some of the points of certain posters in this thread. More knowledgeable football heads, feel free to correct any of this).

So there's this kid, right? Lives in a very prominent South American football country, whose most prominent footballer is a scintillating, world-class (if slightly controversial) legend of the game still residing in the public eye of world football to this day. He grew up working-class, the son of a steelworker and a cleaner, in one of the most populous cities of this nation, known as that nation's Chicago. This kid starts playing football at the age of 5, coached by a relative of his. At the age of 8, he switches to the youth division of a very prominent club based in his home city, known as one of the best youth football clubs in the country, if not the entire South American continent. He excels, becoming well known as a member of this youth powerhouse, even gaining an epithet in the process. Everything seems to be going well for the kid.

At age 11, he gets a diagnosis: he has a growth hormone deficiency that requires treatments costing upwards of $900 a month to keep in check. A national powerhouse shows interest in the kid's skill, but doesn't want to pay for his medical bills. Seems as if things are starting to look a little bleak for our hero here.

Enter a European powerhouse football club. Some would even say THE European powerhouse football club. Turns out, our kid has relatives in this club's home country, and the club has heard about the kid's talent through the grapevine. The club's athletic director makes a trip to this kid's home country and checks him out. Impressed, the athletic director writes out a contract for the kid to join the ranks of this powerhouse's youth program on a napkin, even offering to pay for the kid's medical expenses. However, he has one condition for the kid and his family: "I will sign you and pay for the treatment of your condition, but you MUST move to work with us." The kid and his family agree, and he starts his training with this powerhouse across the Atlantic, eventually becoming one of the greats of his generation.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this is Lionel Messi's story. More importantly than recognizing who's story it is, is recognizing that something like this could never in a million years happen in the context of US Soccer development, and probably won't ever happen for, at the very least, about 20 years.

Unlike this story, the story of a working class kid that had football brought to him at a young age and was allowed to play untold hours of football with the best of his generation, and eventually play understudy at Barcelona to the best of the generation before him, the story of an American soccer player more than likely follows this template:

-Upper-middle class kid needs to play a sport, chooses soccer.
-Unlike lower class kids, his family has the means to play the club fees, tournament fees, and the costs of the equipment needed to play soccer at the youth level which facilitates his entry into the game (talent is only a marginal requirement here, unlike in Messi's story)
-He plays at the youth level, more than likely plays for his school's team, and either goes in one of two directions if he chooses to continue his career at the professional level: goes to college to play, or, if he's lucky and talented enough, gets drafted to play in MLS.

More than likely, this player's development tops out here because, not having played with and against the best of the best of his generation, not having had elite-level coaching from the cradle on up, and not having played understudy to the best of the best of the previous generation, he does not have the basic skills needed to excel beyond the level of a third-tier league.

The difference between creating anything close to a Messi and creating a third-tier soccer player comes down to two things that the US does not have, and will not have for at least 20 years or so:

-A deep and diversified talent pool to pick from. This is the fault of the soccer federation and the American soccer culture in general, as here, soccer is seen as a sport for the moneyed class, and also has the requisite barriers to entry of a sport of the moneyed class. This is beginning to be rectified, with Klinsmann scouting German-American players for the USMNT, but until the second problem is taken care of, will not truly be solved.
-A developmental program which selects and trains players from a very young age (we're talking single-digits here, which is why the arguments about measurables and random tryouts in the hood are ridiculous. If you don't have the skills to take on the best of the best of your developing generation by about 14 or so, it's probably not going to happen for you. Probably meaning never), which reaches into the lover-class areas of the country and plucks promising talent out of their environments to play for the youth systems of elite clubs, play against the best of the best of their generation, and play understudy to the best of the best of the previous generation. None of this even remotely exists in the US, and probably will be extremely tough to implement because it seems as if MLS teams are sticking to the "players come to us" model of player of development, which will never in a million years work to create elite players, no matter how athletic they are.

Until these problems are rectified, US soccer at the national level will remain unchanged: we play hard against teams that are far more skilled than we are, and pull out wins and draws due to pure tenacity more than superior skill and tactics. That will take us to the Round of 16, maybe even the Quarters with a favorable draw, but nowhere further on a consistent basis. And this holds no matter how athletic the players are.
 

TrueEpic08

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Oh, and somebody posted this gif as support for the "but if we just had more ATHLETICISM" argument at some point in the thread:

gareth-bale-copa-goal-against-barca-b.gif


I'm not going to pontificate any more (my last post was far too long as is), but this is roughly 15% athleticism and 85% skill being shown here. Yes, Bale's athleticism is important here, but if he doesn't have the requisite ball skills to supplement it to begin with, it doesn't happen.

An American player that tried this would probably get the ball kicked out of play be the defender or would try Bale's trick and punt the ball into the 5th row somewhere.
 

bnm8907

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So im on twitter and seeing stuff like "If lebron/kobe/(another super athletic dude) type dude there we would win :bryan:"

Breh soccer is a game of skill and technique. You can only get these two by having a soccer culture and america does not have a soccer culture. Yes being athletic is a great bonus but its not the be all and end all.


Lets look at neymar for example, 5'8 150. Not exactly a physical specimen but he would run rings around any team. Why? he has great acceleration but his skill and technique is whats sets him apart from other players. Take a 10 year old kid from brazil, argentina, france, germany etc, I guarantee he would be more advanced then a 16 year old soccer player in the USA.

So for brehs who just think you need super athletes to win :beli: It don't work like that.

Must sports are skill and technique. Skill and technique plus american athleticism will/ would be a problem for the rest of world period.
 

Eternal Tecate

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who said they needed to win it.......:comeon:


how about get out of the group stages .........:sas2:

has that happened to a reigning world cup winner before(i need to check)

:patrice:

I don't know

How is this relevant to the thread? You should probably try not to talk about things you have 0 knowledge of.
 

MegaTronBomb!

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Must sports are skill and technique. Skill and technique plus american athleticism will/ would be a problem for the rest of world period.

No it wouldn't breh... it's like y'all don't get that just cranking up the speed,size and strength will somehow negate the fact that multiple countries have nearly 100+ years of soccer culture on the US.
 
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