Serious Question: What exactly does Lebron do BETTER right now than Penny Hardaway did offensively?

[rapbeats]

Peak for peak? LeBron's more dominant in the paint and finishes through contact like its not even there. Absurd efficiency levels because of his Barkley esque inside dominance. Also has better court vision casually whipping one handed cross court bounce passes out of doubles like its nothing. You recklessly double peak LeBron you die. However if we're just comparing the current LBJ who's been off his game offensively and isn't at his offensive best to peak Penny Hardaway I think it's a pretty close comparison. His post work would be unrivaled among perimeter players in the game today & would give defenses fits due to the mismatch he provides as a 6'7 PG. Outstanding at getting penetration and making something of efficient value happen for his team whether finishing strong in the paint where he'd be among league leaders for conversation rate or taking adv of the collapsed defense getting the ball to a teammate in position to make a play. Takes great care of the basketball as the primary ball handler & will make others around him better. Strong mid range game and a capable 3pt shooter as well. He may have a case for best player in the game if in the league today actually.

lebron has better court vision then who? penny? hell no.

dont be fooled by a karl malone looking dude throwing a no look pass as having more court vision than penny because penny was a more guard like looking guy. thats what happens with lbj. because he's so big. everything that he does like a small guy gets boosted to ridiculous heights.

What makes lebron great is his size, agility, athleticism, and the ability to finish with either hand(no one ever talks about this. this is one thing i noticed about him in high school that he had over most players in high school, college, and the nba. ) but with that said. There have been players before him that were not as large that could do everything score, pass, post up, play defense, rebound

Grant hill(pre injury)

Penny(pre injury-played with shaq in his early days helping him but also hurting him when it comes to shot attempts. but the moment shaq left he got hurt)

Pippen(wasnt as flashy but still got it done. he had to be passive with mike on the team, when mike wasnt there his ppg blew up)

Magic

i wont even mention the super old school guys because i wasnt born back then so i cant vouch for them personally.

all those guys above were known do it all guys that were all superstars at some point in their careers.

and unlike lebron. all of those guys had to play tougher superstars than lbj. lbj has the luxury of beating up on a young kd and russ when he first started out. cause when he came in the nba he got spanked by the spurs in their prime. the old man spurs still beat lbj and almost beat him both times. it shows you even though he's good. he has never had to go up against guys that are as good as he is. which the dudes above had to do.

penny ran into jordan(pre retirement. then they got him right when he came back, hakeem was still in the nba, bark was still there. i think kemp was still in seattle with gp). the league was stacked.

ghill had a terrible team in reality and he had to go up against prime mike, young pip, night in and night out. with penny on the other side coming up. with the entire west conf balling.

lbj has to go thru old man spurs and young kd and crew. now he gets to play the kids from the bay. if the bay kids lose its not even a bad thing on their part. they are kids. lbj is like the only experienced guy on either team. its hilarious to even think about that. that shows you how watered down the nba is nowadays.

i aint mad at LBJ for growing up in this era. aint his fault the comp aint like it was. but lets be honest about it.

in your heart of hearts. do you think LBJ could beat prime jordan, prime kobe, prime shaq, prime magic? prime celtics? HELLL NO.

 

[TrapHouse Rock]

every single mention is preceded with some sort of reason why lebron does it well

well lebron finishing ability is cause it's unreal how strong and fast he is
well lebron's shooting % numbers are great cause he takes smart shots
well lebron makes the right pass but its not flashy or difficult
well lebron..
well lebron...

welll op....these dont sound like negatives to me and exactly why i prefer lebron to penny by a mile

 

[dterpsss]

OP pick a bike and ride off with that nonsense

 

[rapbeats]

LeBron was already better than Penny by his second season.



Try harder next time.

wrong LBJ inherited a semi bad team in a much worse eastern conf.

penny had shaq. which helps him win more games. but hurts him when it comes to individual statistics.
no shaq = more rebs for penny, more shot attempts(high ppg).

LOOk at a NO shaq healthy penny in the playoffs. the first 2 games he had to realize "there is no shaq" then he went off. this aint even PRIME penny yet. he was going into his prime then he got hurt.

<PRE>                                                                                                                          
G         Date    Age  Tm  Opp         GS    MP FG FGA  FG% 3P 3PA  3P% FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS GmSc
1   1997-04-24 25-280 ORL  MIA L (-35)  1 39:00  6  16 .375  1   3 .333  0   3 .000   0   4   4   3   4   1   4  2  13  6.2
2   1997-04-27 25-283 ORL  MIA L (-17)  1 39:00 10  20 .500  1   5 .200  5   8 .625   1   0   1   2   1   1   1  2  26 16.8
3   1997-04-29 25-285 ORL  MIA W (+13)  1 47:00 16  30 .533  1   4 .250  9  10 .900   1   7   8   2   2   0   1  4  42 30.6
4   1997-05-01 25-287 ORL  MIA  W (+8)  1 48:00 12  23 .522  4   8 .500 13  16 .813   3   4   7   4   4   3   1  4  41 38.1
5   1997-05-04 25-290 ORL  MIA  L (-8)  1 47:00  8  22 .364  4  10 .400 13  17 .765   2   8  10   6   1   2   2  2  33 26.8
</PRE>

 

[DoubleClutch]

lebron has better court vision then who? penny? hell no.

dont be fooled by a karl malone looking dude throwing a no look pass as having more court vision than penny because penny was a more guard like looking guy. thats what happens with lbj. because he's so big. everything that he does like a small guy gets boosted to ridiculous heights.

What makes lebron great is his size, agility, athleticism, and the ability to finish with either hand(no one ever talks about this. this is one thing i noticed about him in high school that he had over most players in high school, college, and the nba. ) but with that said. There have been players before him that were not as large that could do everything score, pass, post up, play defense, rebound

Grant hill(pre injury)

Penny(pre injury-played with shaq in his early days helping him but also hurting him when it comes to shot attempts. but the moment shaq left he got hurt)

Pippen(wasnt as flashy but still got it done. he had to be passive with mike on the team, when mike wasnt there his ppg blew up)

Magic

i wont even mention the super old school guys because i wasnt born back then so i cant vouch for them personally.

all those guys above were known do it all guys that were all superstars at some point in their careers.

and unlike lebron. all of those guys had to play tougher superstars than lbj. lbj has the luxury of beating up on a young kd and russ when he first started out. cause when he came in the nba he got spanked by the spurs in their prime. the old man spurs still beat lbj and almost beat him both times. it shows you even though he's good. he has never had to go up against guys that are as good as he is. which the dudes above had to do.

penny ran into jordan(pre retirement. then they got him right when he came back, hakeem was still in the nba, bark was still there. i think kemp was still in seattle with gp). the league was stacked.

ghill had a terrible team in reality and he had to go up against prime mike, young pip, night in and night out. with penny on the other side coming up. with the entire west conf balling.

lbj has to go thru old man spurs and young kd and crew. now he gets to play the kids from the bay. if the bay kids lose its not even a bad thing on their part. they are kids. lbj is like the only experienced guy on either team. its hilarious to even think about that. that shows you how watered down the nba is nowadays.

i aint mad at LBJ for growing up in this era. aint his fault the comp aint like it was. but lets be honest about it.

in your heart of hearts. do you think LBJ could beat prime jordan, prime kobe, prime shaq, prime magic? prime celtics? HELLL NO.

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

I watched rookie AND prime penny, and this thread is a fukking joke.

LeBron is fundamentally better than penny at every level. Better shooter, better passer, better ball handler. Even though he's been asked to be the number one passer AND scorer on all of his teams, as well as defender.

Penny's skillset stood out, because of his size and his quickness. There had not been a lot of players like him. LeBron is just a much better version of that player.


Every year or two, somebody discovers Anfernee Hardaway on this board, and we see a thread like this.... which is why the classic "Did you know Penny could dunk without even jumping" thread was made.


You sound brand new. Which is fine, because you're probably 18.

There was never such a thing.

His best stretch of basketball came during the '97 playoffs against Miami.....Even then, he was fresh off the injured list.

After that '97 playoff run, it was all down hill from there.Missed most of the following season, then got traded to the Suns, which was pretty much his retirement home

 

[Mordith]

Please tell me how that worked out for the spurs in game 7

Even better than that look at the King's avgs from last years Finals :

28.2 ppg, .57 fg%, .51 3pt%

 

[stepbackj34spud]

Dumbest thread and comparison I've seen in a minute. Stop making Penny out to be some legend.. nikkas really comparing Penny to one of the goat.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Bushes already

 

[I.V.]

There was never such a thing.

His best stretch of basketball came during the '97 playoffs against Miami.....Even then, he was fresh off the injured list.

After that '97 playoff run, it was all down hill from there.Missed most of the following season, then got traded to the Suns, which was pretty much his retirement home

Yeah... his best basketball took place in essentially his third and fourth, and part of his fifth year...


Unfortunately, that was his prime.

He had a little more seasoning than his rookie year, had some playoff experience... and then it was gone.


And all that being said... nothing he did was at the level of what LeBron can do/has done.

 

[rapbeats]

Yeah... his best basketball took place in essentially his third and fourth, and part of his fifth year...


Unfortunately, that was his prime.

He had a little more seasoning than his rookie year, had some playoff experience... and then it was gone.


And all that being said... nothing he did was at the level of what LeBron can do/has done.

and all that said you would be lying. thats not his prime. the man was injured to early in his career. end of that point. and i just showed you his stats post the original injury hobbling into the playoffs. and he still put up 30ppg in the first round of the playoffs, which was also the first playoff he had without shaq(or a star just as dominant or moreso then he was).

LBJ has never played with another star as dominant as he is or even close. dont you say old man wade. you go get me heat vs dallas wade + refs. lol. and then tell me wade gives up the rock like he did once he was older and more injured.

lebron's stats are puffed up partially due to him always being the MAIN gun(the heatles, current cavs) or the ONLY gun(original cavs team).

Its the reason why people thought AI, Tmac, Vince carter, etc were all better than kobe. since kobe was playing with shaq and unlike those guys kobe didnt inherit a bad team to put up 100 shots on and make them see him as god. the moment shaq left. kobe showed you who he was. non other than the best perimeter scorer ever just like he told you.

and lets be clear penny had that 97 playoff run in the 90's era of defense. not this soft era. where you cant guard anyone or else its a foul. or not in this heavy pick n roll era. where every team is using constant picks to free up the ball handler(lbj is getting screens all day too.)

penny wasnt sitting on screens all day long to get by guys. its was a lot more iso mano y mano stuff going on. much harder to score in that scenario. so your LBJ FG% stats means little since its in a softer era. where if you're that big of a guy you better be sitting in the 50% range. its not like anyone is allowed to guard anyone these days. it takes the spurs to realize this and dare him to shoot. because they know they cant touch him. ask yourself would the spurs have ever played a prime kobe like that? HELLLLL NO.

 

[Ace2306]

and all that said you would be lying. thats not his prime. the man was injured to early in his career. end of that point. and i just showed you his stats post the original injury hobbling into the playoffs. and he still put up 30ppg in the first round of the playoffs, which was also the first playoff he had without shaq(or a star just as dominant or moreso then he was).

LBJ has never played with another star as dominant as he is or even close. dont you say old man wade. you go get me heat vs dallas wade + refs. lol. and then tell me wade gives up the rock like he did once he was older and more injured.

lebron's stats are puffed up partially due to him always being the MAIN gun(the heatles, current cavs) or the ONLY gun(original cavs team).

Its the reason why people thought AI, Tmac, Vince carter, etc were all better than kobe. since kobe was playing with shaq and unlike those guys kobe didnt inherit a bad team to put up 100 shots on and make them see him as god. the moment shaq left. kobe showed you who he was. non other than the best perimeter scorer ever just like he told you.

and lets be clear penny had that 97 playoff run in the 90's era of defense. not this soft era. where you cant guard anyone or else its a foul. or not in this heavy pick n roll era. where every team is using constant picks to free up the ball handler(lbj is getting screens all day too.)

penny wasnt sitting on screens all day long to get by guys. its was a lot more iso mano y mano stuff going on. much harder to score in that scenario. so your LBJ FG% stats means little since its in a softer era. where if you're that big of a guy you better be sitting in the 50% range. its not like anyone is allowed to guard anyone these days. it takes the spurs to realize this and dare him to shoot. because they know they cant touch him. ask yourself would the spurs have ever played a prime kobe like that? HELLLLL NO.

If what Bron is doing is so easy in this era why aren't there more players with similar stats?

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

If what Bron is doing is so easy in this era why aren't there more players with similar stats?

3rd highest scoring average ever. Hasn't averaged less than 25.3 a game since he was 19 and those two seasons are the only ones under 26.7

 

[I.V.]

and all that said you would be lying. thats not his prime. the man was injured to early in his career. end of that point.

Yeah. Which means the era where he was at his best... was his prime. That's what prime means.

and i just showed you his stats post the original injury hobbling into the playoffs. and he still put up 30ppg in the first round of the playoffs, which was also the first playoff he had without shaq(or a star just as dominant or moreso then he was).

That's a small sample size, which I included in my statement about his best years.


LBJ has never played with another star as dominant as he is or even close.

So?

lebron's stats are puffed up partially due to him always being the MAIN gun(the heatles, current cavs) or the ONLY gun(original cavs team).

His stats aren't puffed up. He's scored more, and resulted in more points for his team at a higher efficiency mark than Penny ever did.


Its the reason why people thought AI, Tmac, Vince carter, etc were all better than kobe. since kobe was playing with shaq and unlike those guys kobe didnt inherit a bad team to put up 100 shots on and make them see him as god. the moment shaq left. kobe showed you who he was. non other than the best perimeter scorer ever just like he told you.

This sounds like you're in high school.

and lets be clear penny had that 97 playoff run in the 90's era of defense. not this soft era. where you cant guard anyone or else its a foul. or not in this heavy pick n roll era. where every team is using constant picks to free up the ball handler(lbj is getting screens all day too.)

You mean LeBron did it now? With Zones allowed? With illegal defense neutered so you can keep a big defender around the hoop? With better scouting an information available than ever before in the history of the game? With players larger, and longer, and faster, and more athletic than any era before? Where Penny was 6'7 with handles and was considered a freak, and now 6'7 is short for a wing?

penny wasnt sitting on screens all day long to get by guys. its was a lot more iso mano y mano stuff going on.

You're on drugs, and you clearly didn't watch Penny play.

. so your LBJ FG% stats means little since its in a softer era.

You are unfamiliar with how this era compares to those previous.

where if you're that big of a guy you better be sitting in the 50% range. its not like anyone is allowed to guard anyone these days.

I can't tell if you're 17 or 87.

it takes the spurs to realize this and dare him to shoot. because they know they cant touch him. ask yourself would the spurs have ever played a prime kobe like that? HELLLLL NO.

And yet, when Kobe didn't have a super star... that's exactly what teams did... they let kobe chuck and chuck, and snuff himself out.

You're quoting his 97 playoff performance as some example of greatness... when in reality... he was forced to gun, his assists plummeted, and he lost the series. And that's what you're holding up.

LeBron is a more gifted passer, a more gifted ball handler, a better shooter, better around the basket, better in transition, better rebounder and better on defense.

You sound like a child telling me how much faster your unicorn is than Secretariat. Unicorns don't exist, kid. And neither did All-World Penny.

He was a tall point guard, that couldn't shoot or defend, and played with Shaq. He was good, not great. That's just the reality of it.

 

[Llcoolbay]

Lebron stats puffes up from being the main gun?

Lebron is the best player on the planet why wouldn't he be the main person who has the ball.