See why African Americans do not want stolen African treasures to be returned back to Africa

[Bonk]

Edo and Yoruba people shared royalty. Onitsha which is associated Igbo people was actually settled by Benin. Lagos which is largely associated with Yoruba people was founded by the Army of Benin. So yes if you look at the map there is a lot of territorial overlap and interrelatedness among those Southern ethnic groups.

The ethnic groups in the west & east have no overlapping lands. The overlap is in the middle (the region classified as South South).

Yoruba & Benin share royalty via Oranmiyan & overlapping admixture with Lagos Island (a small part of Lagos - not the whole Lagos), Owo, Akoko & Ishekiri. Yoruba & Igbo don’t share any overlapping admixture cos there are buffer ethnic groups between the two. However, Igbo & Benin share overlapping admixture with Eshan, & a lot of groups in the Delta region.

I think the overlapping thing all over southern Nigerian is linguistics since almost all the groups are Niger Congo speakers save for a couple of groups in the eastern part. And what that means is that they’re all part of a larger group that broke apart thousands of years ago due to different migration patterns or perhaps they developed the similarities when they arrived at their current location.

 

[Samori Toure]

You stop being lazy. I actually looked up my point, presented it, and made it easy for anyone else to find it and refer to it. You are the one who is trying to obscure your point in a general "look up this person" statement. So show those scholarly articles.

Post one of those many scholarly articles up so that it can be read just like I posted one up. All it takes is for you to move your lazy hand to copy and paste in the the addy in a quote. This BS you are doing with telling me to search out the answer to your assertions demonstrates so far that you really do not want your point to be challenged.

You posted a bullshyt article from a magazine. Earlier in this thread you didn't even know the difference between the Empire of Benin and the modern Country of Benin, but now that you have mastered the art of the googles and presented a National Geographic article you are now an expert on the subject.

Why don't you stop being lazy and do some scholarly research on the Obas of Benin. There are literally whole bodies of college course work on the Kingdoms and people of West Africa. You literally take African history courses in major universities. I have studied some and did research on some. The people I studied the most were the Mane (Mande), but you learn a lot about the other groups as well because they were all trade partners and they shared a lot of technology and advances. If you are just going to be lazy and not want to learn about the music, culture and histories of those Kingdoms then at minimum read some of the books written by authors that studied those places. A good person to start with is Basil Davidson. He is easy to read and very informative.

 

[Samori Toure]

The ethnic groups in the west & east have no overlapping lands. The overlap is in the middle (the region classified as South South).

Yoruba & Benin share royalty via Oranmiyan & overlapping admixture with Lagos Island (a small part of Lagos - not the whole Lagos), Owo, Akoko & Ishekiri. Yoruba & Igbo don’t share any overlapping admixture cos there are buffer ethnic groups between the two. However, Igbo & Benin share overlapping admixture with Eshan, & a lot of groups in the Delta region.

I think the overlapping thing all over southern Nigerian is linguistics since almost all the groups are Niger Congo speakers save for a couple of groups in the eastern part. And what that means is that they’re all part of a larger group that broke apart thousands of years ago due to different migration patterns or perhaps they developed the similarities when they arrived at their current location.

I don't believe that I stated that the Yoruba and Igbo had overlap. Nor am I saying that any of the other Western and Eastern people had direct overlap. I am pretty sure that I pointed out that the overlap is with the Edo. Edo territories overlap both territories and I am pretty sure that we are both saying the same thing about the shared royalty of the Edo and Yoruba and the Edo founding Lagos. I am not saying that they founded every inch of the modern boundaries of the city however they did found the city.

 

[Uachet]

You posted a bullshyt article from a magazine. Earlier in this thread you didn't even know the difference between the Empire of Benin and the modern Country of Benin, but now that you have mastered the art of the googles and presented a National Geographic article you are now an expert on the subject.

Why don't you stop being lazy and do some scholarly research on the Obas of Benin. There are literally whole bodies of college course work on the Kingdoms and people of West Africa. You literally take African history courses in major universities. I have studied some and did research on some. The people I studied the most were the Mane (Mande), but you learn a lot about the other groups as well because they were all trade partners and they shared a lot of technology and advances. If you are just going to be lazy and not want to learn about the music, culture and histories of those Kingdoms then at minimum read some of the books written by authors that studied those places. A good person to start with is Basil Davidson. He is easy to read and very informative.

Yet, you posted nothing yet. Not one link to a scholarly article that disproves what those other articles are saying, that The Benin Kingdom participated in the Slave Trade.

Also, why would I do some scholarly research on a people I have no connection to? Have you done scholarly research on the Qin Dynasty, how about the Japanese Edo period? Have you done scholarly research on the African American migration out from the south? You are the one who made an assertion that they stopped trading in the mid 1500. The second article I posted said they kept trading all the way into the 1800s. You have yet to place up for anyone to read an article that counters the National Geographic article, expect people to research answers to an assertion you made. I will let those who have already done the research speak for position. How about you place up one of those myriad scholarly research papers up to be read, instead of running with the bullshyt counter of search for it yourself?

*Also, it demonstrates something particularly wrong with your character when you rather argue over the point instead of actually demonstrating with an actual document the truth of your point.

 

[Bonk]

I don't believe that I stated that the Yoruba and Igbo had overlap. Nor am I saying that any of the other Western and Eastern people had direct overlap. I am pretty sure that I pointed out that the overlap is with the Edo. Edo territories overlap both territories and I am pretty sure that we are both saying the same thing about the shared royalty of the Edo and Yoruba and the Edo founding Lagos. I am not saying that they founded every inch of the modern boundaries of the city however they did found the city.

My bad, I thought you said ALL the southern groups in Nigeria.

Saying Edo founded the Lagos is historically wrong cos it’s like saying the Portuguese founded Lagos since the name is Portuguese & they were given a post on the coast around where Victoria Island is today by the Jebus before the Edos got to Lagos Island. Or Jebus can say they founded Lagos cos they had trading posts on the coasts in Lekki & Epe (which were part of their kingdom but part of Lagos today) before anyone including the Edo.

Also, the Edos met the Aworis who’re farmers in Lagos Island when they got there. All they did was open a trading post there on the coast to trade with Europeans cos they’re landlocked. So the claim is basically like Christopher Columbus’ claim of discovering America. It’s politics & not historically accurate. Edos don’t even own any land where they supposedly “founded”, the Aworis (the farmers they met there) are still the landowners.

BTW, Jebus & Aworis are Yoruba subgroups.

 

[Samori Toure]

Yet, you posted nothing yet. Not one link to a scholarly article that disproves what those other articles are saying, that The Benin Kingdom participated in the Slave Trade.

Also, why would I do some scholarly research on a people I have no connection to? Have you done scholarly research on the Qin Dynasty, how about the Japanese Edo period? Have you done scholarly research on the African American migration out from the south? You are the one who made an assertion that they stopped trading in the mid 1500. The second article I posted said they kept trading all the way into the 1800s. You have yet to place up for anyone to read an article that counters the National Geographic article, expect people to research answers to an assertion you made. I will let those who have already done the research speak for position. How about you place up one of those myriad scholarly research papers up to be read, instead of running with the bullshyt counter of search for it yourself?

*Also, it demonstrates something particularly wrong with your character when you rather argue over the point instead of actually demonstrating with an actual document the truth of your point.

So you know nothing about the Edo. You know nothing about West African Kingdoms. You are not willing to do basic research on anything to educate yourself on it. Yet you you want to argue about it?

Again. I have to go back to the basic point of you not knowing the difference between the Empire of Benin and the modern country of Benin. I would have stopped right there if I were you, but instead of stopping you kept digging. I gave you the name of the Oba that banned the trade and I gave you the name of an author that you can read to gain a basic understanding of African societies, but instead of thanking me for my act of kindness to help you gain knowledge of the thing that you don't know what the Hell you have been speaking on; you have instead choesn to attack me which shows me your true character.

Oh you obviously didn't know this either. I am an African American. My family has been in the USA for hundred of years. So yes I have studied about the great migration.

 

[Samori Toure]

My bad, I thought you said ALL the southern groups in Nigeria.

Saying Edo founded the Lagos is historically wrong cos it’s like saying the Portuguese founded Lagos since the name is Portuguese & they were given a post on the coast around where Victoria Island is today by the Jebus before the Edos got to Lagos Island. Or Jebus can say they founded Lagos cos they had trading posts on the coasts in Lekki & Epe (which were part of their kingdom but part of Lagos today) before anyone including the Edo.

Also, the Edos met the Aworis who’re farmers in Lagos Island when they got there. All they did was open a trading post there on the coast to trade with Europeans cos they’re landlocked. So the claim is basically like Christopher Columbus’ claim of discovering America. It’s politics & not historically accurate. Edos don’t even own any land where they supposedly “founded”, the Aworis (the farmers they met there) are still the landowners.

BTW, Jebus & Aworis are Yoruba subgroups.

Yeah even the name itself of Lagos is kind of misleading because that is Portuguese. The history of that region is really fascinating.

 

[Uachet]

So you know nothing about the Edo. You know nothing about West African Kingdoms. You are not willing to do basic research on anything to educate yourself on it. Yet you you want to argue about it?

Again. I have to go back to the basic point of you not knowing the difference between the Empire of Benin and the modern country of Benin. I would have stopped right there if I were you, but instead of stopping you kept digging. I gave you the name of the Oba that banned the trade and I gave you the name of an author that you can read to gain a basic understanding of African societies, but instead of thanking me for my act of kindness to help you gain knowledge of the thing that you don't know what the Hell you have been speaking on; you have instead choesn to attack me which shows me your true character.

Oh you obviously didn't know this either. I am an African American. My family has been in the USA for hundred of years. So yes I have studied about the great migration.

Still are not going to post up an article debunking what was written by the two I posted. You still want to run around and argue, instead of just putting up one of those many scholarly articles on the issue being discussed. Also, I don't care what you claim your ethnicity is. Put up an actual source to counter what was placed up by me. Just one source is required, instead of all of this useless back and forth you seem to desire.

 

[Samori Toure]

Still are not going to post up an article debunking what was written by the two I posted. You still want to run around and argue, instead of just putting up one of those many scholarly articles on the issue being discussed. Also, I don't care what you claim your ethnicity is. Put up an actual source to counter what was placed up by me. Just one source is required, instead of all of this useless back and forth you seem to desire.

Nope. I will not provide you with any additional sources. You are not interested in knowing shyt. You just want to argue. Good day sir.

 

[LeaveMyHairLineAlone]

Still are not going to post up an article debunking what was written by the two I posted

In the 1530s, the King or Oba of Benin saw that slave trafficking was draining his kingdom of male manpower. He therefore banned sale of slaves, but, kept domestic slaves. By 1550, there was no slave trade in Benin. Pepper and elephant tusks became the main exports. Even up to the 17th century, the Kings of Benin still refused to cooperate with European slavers.

5: Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade – History Textbook

 

[Bonk]

Yeah even the name itself of Lagos is kind of misleading because that is Portuguese. The history of that region is really fascinating.

The original name for Lagos is “Oko” (meaning farm in Yoruba) but corrupted to “Eko” by Benin. But the Portuguese named it “Lagos” after a sister coastal city in Portugal. Lagos is a city with a lot of small Islands connected by creeks & Lagoon. Then you have the mainland area. I think the Lagos in Portugal is also similar.

Yes, it’s fascinating & very interesting. But the only problem that plaque it is politics & unnecessary competition due to the structure of Nigeria. And that’s one of the curses colonialism forced on the people.

Back in the day, when someone who’s a royalty from a perceived stronger kingdom or empire comes to live amongst groups that are weaker - they tend to crown them kings for protection & affinity with the stronger kingdom. And you’d see that in all the relationships between Yoruba & Edos (Benin) everywhere. It’s also the reason why Oyo, which was a Yoruba empire never went to war with Benin empire despite co-existing side by side.

Oranmiyan was a prince from Ife (the first Yoruba kingdom) who went to Benin. But despite having their own kingship (the sky gods), they wanted to make him a king. He refused & left. However, the son he had with an Edo woman, Eweka, was made the king & he started the Oba dynasty that built the Benin empire.

Itshekiris were a group of coastal Yoruba traders who founded a trading post by the coast in present day Delta. Ginuwa, a Benin prince, decided to live amongst them. And they decided to make him the king.

When Benin decided to open a trading post on the coast in Lagos Island to cut out the middlemen - they were led by Ashipa, a Benin prince & war general. And when he got there, the Aworis (Yoruba farmers) he met there decided to make him the king.

That’s the affinity between Edos (Benin) & Yorubas.

 

[Uachet]

Nope. I will not provide you with any additional sources. You are not interested in knowing shyt. You just want to argue. Good day sir.

You have not provided any source that debunks what I offered. You spent all of that time going back and forth with me when you could have placed in quotes an article that backs your claim. You saying, look up one particular king from the mid-1500s does not even cover the time periods leading to the 1800s that the articles I posted show. So I am inclined to believe that you are incapable of doing what I requested.

So the onus was on you to debunk my source, not on me to research the truth of your claims. The effort it would have taken for you to post one of those myriads of scholarly articles debunking what The National Geographic article prints should have been a lot less than this run around you did. It leaves me with the impression that you were lying about your sources because there is no reason to obscure sources that proves your point if they actually exist.

 

[Spence]

Well, isn’t there an African American museum near the Smithsonian? just send them shyts across the street and be done with it. Not like the Smithsonian is hurting for fukking artifacts

 

[Uachet]

In the 1530s, the King or Oba of Benin saw that slave trafficking was draining his kingdom of male manpower. He therefore banned sale of slaves, but, kept domestic slaves. By 1550, there was no slave trade in Benin. Pepper and elephant tusks became the main exports. Even up to the 17th century, the Kings of Benin still refused to cooperate with European slavers.

5: Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade – History Textbook

Thank you. It is one excerpt, but it is more than what was shown before.

I see it is for an exam. I've looked at the references, and none on this issue were shown. I went looking for more and this is what I got.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231183334_Benin_and_the_Slave_Trade

From the late 16th to the late 17th century, Benin never sold its own
citizens, but only female captives (including Igbo, Sobo, Ijaw, and others) captured in war
or purchased from neighboring peoples. From the mid-17th to 18th centuries, however,
slaves became the principal trade “goods” acquired by Europeans, and foreign male
prisoners and eventually citizens of Benin itself were also sold abroad. In the heyday of the
slave trade, Benin supplied 3,000 slaves a year. A contemporary related that “The West
India planters prefer the slaves of Benin … to those of any other part of Guinea…”

 

[Lost1]

You have not provided any source that debunks what I offered. You spent all of that time going back and forth with me when you could have placed in quotes an article that backs your claim. You saying, look up one particular king from the mid-1500s does not even cover the time periods leading to the 1800s that the articles I posted show. So I am inclined to believe that you are incapable of doing what I requested.

So the onus was on you to debunk my source, not on me to research the truth of your claims. The effort it would have taken for you to post one of those myriads of scholarly articles debunking what The National Geographic article prints should have been a lot less than this run around you did. It leaves me with the impression that you were lying about your sources because there is no reason to obscure sources that proves your point if they actually exist.

He's correct...the National Geographic article and the Britannica articles are misinformation (the author of the Britannica article is not a historian of Africa but instead just some person with a degree in music), as are most of the claims in Mrs. Farmer-Paellman's statements, her lawsuit, and the claims of one of the professors (Seck) she got to respond to her inquiries.

I can provide a more detailed explanation later, if you can wait a few days...for now, please read the Wikipedia talk page on the Kingdom of Benin (Talk:Kingdom of Benin - Wikipedia) where some of the things being discussed in the thread have already been partially addressed...including the (incorrect and misleading) article on researchgate by Dmitri Bondarenko that you quoted from