Seattle agrees to raise minimum wage to $15

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I think I'd rather force the corporations to share some of their record profits than have the tax payer pay people for working at McDonalds.

Yo. Can we drop this McDonalds joke? Cause theres a lot of work that applies for minimum wage that goes beyond fast food.

And you ain't gonna force corporations to pay their workers more up to a point where they just don't raise prices on folks.

Apple and Starbucks CHOSE to give their workers a raise.

Costco pays its workers more because they have a different business model from walmart.

Theres a lot that goes into this.

AND most people DO NOT make minimum wage. You know this, so lets not skip over that.

 

[Broke Wave]

Yeah, but you can't just artifically force more money into people's pockets while not forcing companies to spend money how the government forces them.

EITC isnt a subsidy. Its letting people keep more of their pay cheques. The hell are you talking about?

and universal income? Dawg, you might as well if you're gonna raise minimum wage to levels that you think accounts for a "standard of living thats comfortable" ...but I can't expect that from someone who keeps trying to equate a minimum wage and a living wage.

A liberal set of arguments against the seattle move: Seattle might raise its minimum wage to $15. This is not a good idea.

There are a lot more of them out there too.

I'm not gonna be immature and mock you for not knowing that it's a subsidy, but it is a subsidy. Most actually named subsidies are given in the form of tax deductions.

I would actually advocate for that under better economic conditions, but right now the economy is not that strong .

I'm not equating a minimum wage with a living wage, I just want the minimum wage to become a living wage instead of a poverty wage which it now is.

As far as Apple and Starbucks raising their wages voluntarily, we can't be at the mercy of corporations. Furthermore corporate profits are at a record high so we can't talk about prices being raised without going into how prices are artificially lowered by this wage subsidy.

Most people don't make minimum wage but many people make less than 15 an hour and this would really help them. Businesses that cannot make profits without paying their employees a decent wage should not even be able to operate.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

EITC isnt a subsidy. Its letting people keep more of their pay cheques. The hell are you talking about?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I'm not gonna be immature and mock you for not knowing that it's a subsidy, but it is a subsidy. Most actually named subsidies are given in the form of tax deductions.

This is nothing like a farm subsidy fam. The government isn't PAYING you to do something.

I would actually advocate for that under better economic conditions, but right now the economy is not that strong .

Theres like 6 types of subsidies fam: Subsidy types | Global Subsidies Initiative

you're being disingenuous and you know what I mean.

I'm not equating a minimum wage with a living wage, I just want the minimum wage to become a living wage instead of a poverty wage which it now is.

We agree, just not on the number.

As far as Apple and Starbucks raising their wages voluntarily, we can't be at the mercy of corporations. Furthermore corporate profits are at a record high so we can't talk about prices being raised without going into how prices are artificially lowered by this wage subsidy.

So don't work for a corporation???

Ya'll realize the world is flat now, right?

You CAN be replaced by some dude who doesn't speak a lick of english on the other side of the world in many cases.
You want companies to just up and pay more, HOW?

Most people don't make minimum wage but many people make less than 15 an hour and this would really help them. Businesses that cannot make profits without paying their employees a decent wage should not even be able to operate.

Cool. Are you going to pay $30 for your shape-up? Cause thats the next step.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Theres like 6 types of subsidies: Subsidy types | Global Subsidies Initiative

you're being disingenuous and you know what I mean.

A tax cut ain't no where near the same as the government paying carrot farmers

 

[Broke Wave]

This is nothing like a farm subsidy fam. The government isn't PAYING you to do something.

I would actually advocate for that under better economic conditions, but right now the economy is not that strong .


We agree, just not on the number.


So don't work for a corporation???

Ya'll realize the world is flat now, right?

You CAN be replaced by some dude who doesn't speak a lick of english on the other side of the world in many cases.
You want companies to just up and pay more, HOW?



Cool. Are you going to pay $30 for your shape-up? Cause thats the next step.

I wan't companies to pay more and I want us to force them through the law. It's really that simple. If there was no law they'd pay less than 7.25 and that's obvious.

I never said that the world was flat, and I never said don't work for a corporation. I just said we shouldn't be at their mercy, we should be dictating what happens democratically because the society is for the people. If corporations could replace you they would, they don't pay people because their nice guys. If you can be replaced, you will be.

I already pay 25 dollars for my haircuts anyway because I'm not a bum nikka. But if you're making a point about increased costs and increased wages, the only costs that will rise are the ones that are artificially lowered on the basis of low wages like Wal Mart etc. Other items have profit margins that are wide enough to allow something like that, this is evident through their EPS. Starbucks profit margin is very wide so they can pay their workers high.

And those 6 types of subsidies are the same because... they take our tax money and give it away. It doesn't matter how they do it, they just do it.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Like I said in the other thread:

Iti easy to get in on the anti-corporate circlejerk of giant business parks that rape employees from 9-5 and send them home with bandaids of single dollar bills to wipe their tears.

BUT this is minimum wage we're talking about.

This affects EVERY single business from barberships and corner stores...to Apple and Xerox.

The world is a lot more complex than that.

And theres tons of data that opposed the $15 wage. Even the most liberal/left magazines/blogs/journals etc were REALLY tense to support what seattle just did.

If I post it, will you just ignore that too?

I'm not on some "fukk poor people" shyt...but hell, lets not lionize MINIMUM wage here. Theres a reason YOU and I don't make that money. And theres a reason some jobs BARELY qualify for more than what the government will let you get away with.

Ya'll won't support telling corporations how to spend their money...so ya'll gotta come up with some other alternatives cause raising the floor doesn't exist in a bubble.

The question was based on what criteria do you designate a minimum wage $10 a good idea, but a minimum wage of $15 so absurd that no one who proposes it should even be taken seriously?

We've already heard arguments about how minimum wage can adversely affect employment and prices. Do you have economic research or data you can point to that supports the position that $10 would be economically beneficial whereas $15 is in the realm of the absurd, or are you just making a subjective, qualitative judgment on what you think peoples' labor is worth?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I wan't companies to pay more and I want us to force them through the law. It's really that simple. If there was no law they'd pay less than 7.25 and that's obvious.

1. I already supported a wage floor of some sort. I'm not against any minimum wage. I'm against exorbitant ones.
2. You can't force companies to pay more WITHOUT them raising prices...UNLESS you tell them how to internally spend their money or find some legal precedent to link payment to the lowest worker of all companies. Good luck doing that

I never said that the world was flat, and I never said don't work for a corporation. I just said we shouldn't be at their mercy, we should be dictating what happens democratically because the society is for the people. If corporations could replace you they would, they don't pay people because their nice guys. If you can be replaced, you will be.

What do you think corporations are? They're not firebreathing dragons. They're composed of people with a single aim and identity.

You're saying you dont wanna be "at their mercy" but we're not even talking about middle worker wage. We're talking foot in the door status, stuff that would be paid lowly anyways...FEDERALLY.

We're not even talking state and city minimum wage.

Cause you know most states and cities are going to go above what the Feds have listed. So we're looking at around 11-12.

I already pay 25 dollars for my haircuts anyway because I'm not a bum nikka. But if you're making a point about increased costs and increased wages, the only costs that will rise are the ones that are artificially lowered on the basis of low wages like Wal Mart etc. Other items have profit margins that are wide enough to allow something like that, this is evident through their EPS. Starbucks profit margin is very wide so they can pay their workers high.

Walmart may roll in the bucks, but it takes a lot for them to undercut competitors the way they do.

That being said, we gotta talk about businesses finding a reason to pay their workers that much...cause whether you want to believe it or not, worker value and production DOES matter. If youre a cashier or door greeter, i don't wanna hear you talk about how hard life is.

And those 6 types of subsidies are the same because... they take our tax money and give it away. It doesn't matter how they do it, they just do it.

Its still not the same type of enterprise. Thats the point. Sure universal income would probably not happen for at least 100 years, but equating agribusiness subsidies and tax cuts isn't the same and you know it.

Taking less tax from people isn't the same as paying them to sit on their hands.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Theres like 6 types of subsidies: Subsidy types | Global Subsidies Initiative

you're being disingenuous and you know what I mean.

A tax cut ain't no where near the same as the government paying carrot farmers

I'm being disingenuous because you didn't know what a subsidy is?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

The question was based on what criteria do you designate a minimum wage $10 a good idea, but a minimum wage of $15 so absurd that no one who proposes it should even be taken seriously?

We've already heard arguments about how minimum wage can adversely affect employment and prices. Do you have economic research or data you can point to that supports the position that $10 would beeconomically beneficial whereas $15 is in the realm of the absurd, or are you just making a subjective, qualitative judgment on what you think peoples' labor is worth?

I posted it in the other thread and just posted a link to a liberal criticism of seattle's move. Theres tons of them out there. Google it. I've also posted stuff in other threads on this same topic.

and yeah, I DO think the value of labor is something we shouldnt run away from discussing. Yeah, people are...people/humans whatever...but the work you do DOES have a value that needs to be assessed cause I think even you would refuse to be paid the same as someone who does way less work than you do or has less responsibility etc. Its not dehumanizing to talk about this.

MIND YOU...this isn't about middle level work...this is MINIMUM WAGE. Stay focused.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I'm being disingenuous because you didn't know what a subsidy is?

Tax breaks are the weakest form of subsidy in the purest sense of the word. The only reason they get included is because its the government regulating something they'd end up taking anyways.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

I posted it in the other thread and just posted a link to a liberal criticism of seattle's move. Theres tons of them out there. Google it. I've also posted stuff in other threads on this same topic.

and yeah, I DO think the value of labor is something we shouldnt run away from discussing. Yeah, people are...people/humans whatever...but the work you do DOES have a value that needs to be assessed cause I think even you would refuse to be paid the same as someone who does way less work than you do or has less responsibility etc. Its not dehumanizing to talk about this.

MIND YOU...this isn't about middle level work...this is MINIMUM WAGE. Stay focused.

You posted a business analyst's from Slate's opinion piece, and that was mild, tepid skepticism about Seattle's $15 minimum wage plan. The Slate piece basically said that the author thinks that we're getting into unchartered territory with a quick jump to $15 that he feels is too steep. It doesn't say it's so ridiculous that the notion of it is invalid, like you said.

Once again, I asked do you have any economic data would support your claims that $10 is a-okay, but $15 is so zany that it's not even worth taking someone who proposes it seriously? I guess the answer is no, and you're just arbitrarily making subjective assertions about what you personally think people should earn, but you're going to keep dancing around it.

 

[Type Username Here]

Napoleon getting exposed again.

I'm stilling waiting for the receipts.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Tax breaks are the weakest form of subsidy in the purest sense of the word. The only reason they get included is because its the government regulating something they'd end up taking anyways.

They get included because they're subsidies...kinda like meat gets included in the food category because it's food.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

You posted a business analyst's from Slate's opinion piece, and that was mild, tepid skepticism about Seattle's $15 minimum wage plan. The Slate piece basically said that the author thinks that we're getting into unchartered territory with a quick jump to $15 that he feels is too steep. It doesn't say it's so ridiculous that the notion of it is invalid, like you said.

Once again, I asked do you have any economic data would support your claims that $10 is a-okay, but $15 is so zany that it's not even worth taking someone who proposes it seriously? I guess the answer is no, and you're just arbitrarily making subjective assertions about what you personally think people should earn, but you're going to keep dancing around it.

Dawg, the only data out there says "oh look, if we account for inflation, minimum wage would be $30!" WOW

That means fukk all if you're falling for the fukking propaganda.

The PEGGING of minimum wage IS NOT inherently meant to go up radically, NOR does that mean the original calculation was pegged to a consistent indicator of economic activity