Sanctuary Cities.. i dont get it

[CrimsonTider]

Can somebody explain to me why as a black man i should give a fukk about Sanctuary Cities?

I see the argument popping up again because Sessions vowed to deny funding.

I am not a Republican ( or Democrat ) but i honestly do not understand the Dems position on this. From my understanding they dont want to follow the law. They want to use federal funds to help illegal aliens. Am i correct?


If that is the case then I am against them also. You got Chicago vowing to fight this, and other cities..But aiyo fukk that! Take care of your citizens 1st.


Am i missing something? And i am coming for knowledge brehs. Not trying to son anyone or playing gotcha. Last year i asked a question about Voter Id laws because i did not see the big deal and some brehs gave me some insight i did not realize.

Mostly areas that usually heavily depend on hiring illegals to farm the fields

The agriculture industry would collapse without illegals

Local governments especially big cities depend on the sales taxes revenue from illegal immigrants

These cities are also being run on the backs of illegal immigrants

From what I gather... these 2 things are what make up a "sanctuary city"

There is no benefit for local governments to deport these people cause they benefit from their illegal immigrant status

 

[MeachTheMonster]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/opinion/sanctuary-cities-in-name-only.html

Read this.

The Yale law professor Issa Kohler-Hausmann has observed that New York’s conviction rates plummeted even as broken windows policing drove up misdemeanor arrests. She argues that these constant arrests aren’t meant to prove or punish guilt. Rather, they simply “track and sort people” over time. The process is itself the punishment. Tracking and sorting millions of people is precisely where Immigration and Customs Enforcement needs local help.

President Trump’s plans to deport millions of immigrants can’t happen without boots on the ground. Until cities reject the failed thinking that led to mass incarceration, local police and prosecutors will be doing the legwork for mass deportation.

This is why you should care as a black man. Or at least one of the reasons.

You stand by and watch others getting fukked over cause it's not your group. Eventually it will come your way.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Immigration laws are being enforced. What's being proposed is deportation forces who purposely go out and seek illegals.

If you can't see the danger in emboldening more American police to haras more citizens, then you have not been paying attention.

Proposed by who Legislators?? Trump? Or some random racist CAC?

No they aren't. That's what Fox News told you

Like "no-go zones" under sharia law

No, that's what NPR told me. They interviewed the mayor of.... LA I believe... and he was adamant about not sharing immigration info of people in his city with ICE, even if they were criminals. I don't even watch Fox News... only news sources I check are NPR (which I listen to daily), Bloomberg Business, the Economist, the Federalist and some Al Jazeera

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Proposed by who Legislators?? Trump? Or some random racist CAC?

The leader of your country. The deportation raids have already begun.

Also follow the logic in that link I posted.

You can't look at someone and tell they are illegal. Only way to do that is to detain them. Only way to increase deportation enforcement is to increase detainment.

Increased detainment will always result in more black people being harassed/fined/assulted by police.

No, that's what NPR told me. They interviewed the mayor of.... LA I believe... and he was adamant about not sharing immigration info of people in his city with ICE, even if they were criminals. I don't even watch Fox News... only news sources I check are NPR (which I listen to daily), Bloomberg Business, the Economist, the Federalist and some Al Jazeera

How is LA a "sanctuary city" when they are deporting thousands every year? They must be doing a bad job. No?

What interview are you referring to?

 

[hashmander]

Lets go point by point

" these cities want to keep things rolling along and they feel gestapo tactics aren't good for state business and safety."

Enforcing immigration law = gestapo tactics? How is enforcing immigration law any more "gestapo" than enforcing any other laws? Are you this gung ho about the feds enforcing tax evasion laws? Racketeering? Traffic violations? Animal cruelty?

"blue state govts are supported by big majorities in their state and they don't seem to have a problem with it"

Blue states supporting something doesn't make it OK to operate in violation of federal law. You can't just pick and choose which laws you follow and don't, the whole legal system is pointless by that logic.

"the basic tenant of a sanctuary city is that the police shouldn't be asking about a person's legal status before they provide service."



Sanctuary cities are denying the legal status of people who convicted crimes. Stop trying to paint this as ICE officers running around demanding people's immigration status on the street

"if ICE wants someone they can go get them."

ICE can't go get anybody if sanctuary cities hide them

"this is protected by the 10th amendment."

The 10th Amendment does not mean states can violate federal law

I used to, and still do hold rancor for the gross hypocrisy and double standards of the right.... now I'm seeing the left is just as bad, if not worse

shyt like this is why I stopped fukking with HL, too many clowns with liberal arts vocabulary

a sanctuary city is one where the police don't do ICE's bidding. ICE asks cities to hold people for immigration violations and these cities are deciding that's not what they are going to do. they aren't going to erode the trust in their immigrant communities and don't want them scared to ask for help.

ICE is free to arrest people in violation of immigration laws, no city can prevent that. and they aren't being hidden by the city. the city just isn't cooperating with them, telling them do their own work.

i didn't say enforcing federal immigration law is gestapo tactics. cops asking for papers is and when they are doing ICE's bidding that's exactly their initial question to people. i don't know where i said ICE shouldn't enforce their laws, i just don't think states and municipalities have to help them and the law is on their side.

anyway i think it's best to let a wingnut judge explain it. maybe he'll do it in a more comprehensive, non-liberal arts way.

Judge Andrew Napolitano: Are sanctuary cities legal?

Thus the question: Are state and local governments required to help the feds enforce federal law? In a word: No.

The term “sanctuary cities” is not a legal term, but it has been applied by those in government and the media to describe municipalities that offer expanded social services to the undocumented and decline to help the feds find them -- including the case of Chicago's offering undocumented immigrants money for legal fees to resist federal deportation. As unwise as these expenditures may be by cities that are essentially bankrupt and rely on federal largesse in order to remain in the black, they are not unlawful. Cities and towns are free to expand the availability of social services however they please, taking into account the local political climate.

Enter the Supreme Court. It has required the states -- and thus the municipalities in them -- to make social services available to everyone resident within them, irrespective of citizenry or lawful or unlawful immigration status. This is so because the constitutional command to the states of equal protection applies to all persons, not just to citizens. So the states and municipalities may not deny basic social services to anyone based on nationality or immigration status.

The high court has also prohibited the federal government from “commandeering” the states by forcing them to work for the feds at their own expense by actively enforcing federal law.

I want to add, that when I talk about sanctuary cities in this thread, I'm going with the generally accepted definition: "There’s no official definition of “sanctuary,” but it generally refers to rules restricting state and local governments from alerting federal authorities about people who may be in the country illegally."

that's why they were established in the 70's and what i've always understood it to be about when the debate was reignited after the SF killing.

 

[newworldafro]

OP just like the voter ID laws....this is the Democratic Party strategy to incrementally get more people of color on the voter rolls.....whether it's the adults who are here illegally or their kids who in less than 18 years will be legal citizens if born in the U.S.

They are suggesting that these illegal immigrants of color will solidify the Democratic Party, as they make the assumption, because of Democratic support through welfare payments, etc will automatically vote for them and not Republicans, etc.

Period.

 

[Phoenix Rising]

Want to have an adult conversation or should I just neg you now?

I am having an adult conversation you just don't like my answers sweetie..

You don't seem to be able to deal with anything that runs counter to your belief system

The leader of your country. The deportation raids have already begun.

Also follow the logic in that link I posted.

You can't look at someone and tell they are illegal. Only way to do that is to detain them. Only way to increase deportation enforcement is to increase detainment.

Increased detainment will always result in more black people being harassed/fined/assulted by police.



How is LA a "sanctuary city" when they are deporting thousands every year? They must be doing a bad job. No?

What interview are you referring to?

Because they are going to stop detaining black people if they don't use the local police to detail illegals????

Please, they are constantly locking black people up for minor offenses.

These cities are asking for protection of illegals they don't afford native black people.

I'm not saying I agree with mass deportation mind you, I find it heartless and cruel, but honestly, the black community should most definitley be asking what's in it for me when looking at policy.

Your reasoning doesn't answer that for me.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Because they are going to stop detaining black people if they don't use the local police to detail illegals????

I never said this, don't play dumb

Please, they are constantly locking black people up for minor offenses.

So you want more of that or less?

These cities are asking for protection of illegals they don't afford native black people.

No. They aren't. They are asking not to be enforcers for the Feds at the detriment to the health of their own communities and economies.

I'm not saying I agree with mass deportation mind you, I find it heartless and cruel, but honestly, the black community should most definitley be asking what's in it for me when looking at policy.

Your reasoning doesn't answer that for me.

That's been answered plenty of times in this thread. This is merely part of it.

 

[Pressure]

I am having an adult conversation you just don't like my answers sweetie..

You don't seem to be able to deal with anything that runs counter to your belief system


Because they are going to stop detaining black people if they don't use the local police to detail illegals????

Please, they are constantly locking black people up for minor offenses.

These cities are asking for protection of illegals they don't afford native black people.

I'm not saying I agree with mass deportation mind you, I find it heartless and cruel, but honestly, the black community should most definitley be asking what's in it for me when looking at policy.

Your reasoning doesn't answer that for me.

Ahh, the well they're doing it to black people so I don't care argument...

 

[ExodusNirvana]

Come down here to Lil Hati. Not all illegals are "brown" you c00n.

Thank You

Come on ya'll the shyt doesn't just effect Hispanic people and even if it did, that's still not a good thing.

 

[Phoenix Rising]

Ahh, the well they're doing it to black people so I don't care argument...

More like, the argument was that "it could happen to black people" and I stated they're already doing it to black people so that argument is moot...

Follow along, I know its hard for you to logically but please try .

 

[Phoenix Rising]

I never said this, don't play dumb


So you want more of that or less?


No. They aren't. They are asking not to be enforcers for the Feds at the detriment to the health of their own communities and economies.


That's been answered plenty of times in this thread. This is merely part of it.

Yes you did.

You're trying to argue that black people should care because local policing will rise if cities don't declare themselves sanctuaries for illegal immigrants.

I'm calling bullshyt because policing of black people is going to happen regardless to protections for illegal immigrants.

Your argument of do you want more or less is silly because the protections provided illegal immigrants don't directly affect black people so regardless to those protections overpolicing of the black community will exist.

 

[ill]

State Rep. Defends Facebook Post Warning Immigrants Of Rumored ICE Raids

I think this is fitting for this thread. MA State Rep warns illegal immigrants about upcoming ICE raids.

 

[Pressure]

More like, the argument was that "it could happen to black people" and I stated they're already doing it to black people so that argument is moot...

Follow along, I know its hard for you to logically but please try .

Let's do it:

Because they are going to stop detaining black people if they don't use the local police to detail illegals????

Actually, they will detain less blacks if they aren't detaining all people for minor arrests in order to check their legal immigration status. Your suggesting they're only profiling brown people, but that's not how profiling works. I'm sure you're aware of this.

Please, they are constantly locking black people up for minor offenses.

So your solution to this is giving them another reason to harrass blacks under the guise of checking legal migrant status?

These cities are asking for protection of illegals they don't afford native black people.

these protections also apply to black immigrants as well.

I'm not saying I agree with mass deportation mind you, I find it heartless and cruel, but honestly, the black community should most definitley be asking what's in it for me when looking at policy.

You seem to be in support of mass deportation unless black people are given a bone in return.

Not every issue is a black issue, but these "sanctuary" policies also help black people directly if they are immigrants and indirectly through voter ID laws and not requiring certain forms of identification to receive certain social aid, etc.

Doesn't military service lead to citizenship?

Is this the barrier you want?

 

[Pressure]

Why not just give the work visas?

I don't understand why we are fighting for citizenship when a work visa would be a good compromise.

You don't understand the majority of immigrants overstay their visas right? You do also understand a large number of immigrants don't want citizenship and would settle for permanent status.

You also understand that programs like the dream act, sanctuary cities, and other liberal programs are designed to do just that.

Democrats just want the votes so they fight for citizenship when that's not exactly necessary.

This doesn't make sense. The majority of the sanctuary cities are in already overwhelmingly liberal areas. There's really not much to be gained from an electoral perspective in those areas since they're already blue.