Russia's Invasion of Ukraine (Official Thread)

[MoneyTron]

I know, which is why we need to be Team America and come to the table to hash it out. He really thought this would be over quickly and it’s not.

Im also of the mind that NATO doesn’t need to exist either, but that is a different convo

I'll disagree with you on both points.

Anyway, no need to force him to a table. He doesn't want to change. That's fine, we'll just make his life hell.

It's not like we haven't offered Putin off ramps. He doesn't want to take them. Oh well.

 

[MushroomX]

Igor

 

[Broke Wave]

Good.

How is this good?

 

[jj23]

Question for you all:

Does Putin and/or Russia do something insane and try to lash out violently against the world like Nazi Germany did? I mean, the economic sanctions and embarrassments in Ukraine look like it might put them into suicide mode and considering Russian men already die so young compared to well to do countries and Russians have a reputation for being violent and chaotic I just wonder if this turns into them using horrible weapons on us all.

They have been trying to set the stage for it.

But to say it, knowing what has been done so far, then to DO it, and face the annihilation of your country.

Unless Putin wants history to end with him it's a threat in hand.

If Putin isn't rational it's inevitable, but the narrative shouldn't be he was forced to do this. These are all consequences of is initial action. That's why the NATO argument doesn't fly.

How are you going to tell bordering nations not to join NATO when they actively have to worry about you deciding to invade at any moment?

 

[jj23]

And what do you want now? We need to find a solution to this.

Let me ask you a question. When this is over, should Ukraine join NATO? I think I'm a yes for the EU because they'll need the financial support but NATO?

Yes. Why do nations join NATO? What did Russia do to the Ukraine?

Can Russia be trusted in the future?

 

[CEO of Morgan Industries]

I know, which is why we need to be Team America and come to the table to hash it out. He really thought this would be over quickly and it’s not.

Im also of the mind that NATO doesn’t need to exist either, but that is a different convo

This doesn't make any sense. Putin doesn't want to come to the table unless he can dictate the futures of multiple European countries. He wants a puppet government installed in Ukraine and promises from Finland, Sweden, and probably Moldova, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, etc., that they won't draw closer to Europe (NATO, EU membership). Why do you have this idea that the United States can do anything to insure Putin of these things? "Come to the table to hash it out" is a position that you can only take if you ignore everything that we know about Putin and what he wants.

As for NATO needing to exist, let's just say that Russia's adventures into Georgia and Ukraine have basically convinced a whole bunch of Eastern European countries otherwise. I wish we were dealing with a Russia that was ready to cleave closer to Europe rather than fight it, but we're not. I'm for peace, too, but we can't get peace by ignoring reality and advocating for a milquetoast "come to the table" option as if it actually exists in this scenario.

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

All these years people wanted a new influx of posters because the board had become "stale" and all we have to show for it are Russian agents/bots

 

[Hoodoo Child]

As of this moment, Zelenskyy has framed himself as a man of the people; just he is the President. From my viewpoint, when you humble yourself... you not only tell your soldiers to fight harder, but, it also doesn't make 'You' the figurehead. Putin on the other side is the man with the power and influence, but if you take him away, who is the rightful person to take over? There would be a lot of infighting.

I get your views, it's not pro-Putin, but at the same time... I just have a feeling that while they would mourn him, they would fight for his ideas vs. a Russian side that is told what to do, by someone only invested in their self-interests.

Agreed, and like I said earlier, "It's a War of Attrition". Russia is getting sanctioned from here to Timbuktu, and ammunition/supplies cost bread. They have the better Army, but so far Ukraine is playing good 'bleed the clock' defense'. If they can hold on for atleast 6 weeks or 2 months, they could actually pull this off. I'm just going by what history showed me. A) Russia is known to suffer heavy losses at the start of their conflicts, and they don't care B) The bigger Army is usually the victor

 

[rantanamo]

Agreed, and like I said earlier, "It's a War of Attrition". Russia is getting sanctioned from here to Timbuktu, and ammunition/supplies cost bread. They have the better Army, but so far Ukraine is playing good 'bleed the clock' defense'. If they can hold on for atleast 6 weeks or 2 months, they could actually pull this off. I'm just going by what history showed me. A) Russia is known to suffer heavy losses at the start of their conflicts, and they don't care B) The bigger Army is usually the victor

What is Victory here?

 

[Grand Conde]

Question for you all:

Does Putin and/or Russia do something insane and try to lash out violently against the world like Nazi Germany did? I mean, the economic sanctions and embarrassments in Ukraine look like it might put them into suicide mode and considering Russian men already die so young compared to well to do countries and Russians have a reputation for being violent and chaotic I just wonder if this turns into them using horrible weapons on us all.

Because the Germans were able to create an extremely effective army that conquered much of Europe in months, whereas Russia has a shytty army that can't even conquer large parts of one country.

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

They probably getting sent to the frontlines now.

Someone I know just told me this. Her son's father is from Russia. So they really are sending ppl who are against the war to the frontlines?

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

I have a feeling Putin is considering options, but at the same time, he wants to be remembered in history as a 'Winner'; even if he loses. I think that's why he is trying to force the United States to enter, so he could create a winning plan, back out, and blame it on the States. I think he knows the States are not entering, so that's why is still pushing into Ukraine, but its clear the operation is getting worse by the moment.

He is afraid to really to use those weapons, as he wants a victory, but not by mutual destruction.

This. He's trying desperately to figure out some kind of W here. The US getting involved would give it to him.

He's desperately trying to bait Biden into this war. That could be why they started firing on civilians now that I think about it, cause he knows tender hearted Americans like me can't stand the thought of innocent women and babies getting cut down like dogs. And he knows that we would start shouting for the US to get involved.

Biden is doing the right thing. And I retract my earlier statements in this thread about us instituting the no fly zone.

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

So what are y'all's theories for how this ends?

Will they capture zelenski and off him?

They just might get Z. But if they turn that man into a martyr, they would catch more hell than they are currently catching.

It would be smart of them to capture but not kill him. However these don't seem to be smart ppl at this point.

 

[Grand Conde]

100% this is the Russian government introducing revised "victory" conditions to the Russian people.

 

[Neo. The Only. The One.]

Here's one. There's more but, im not going through this entire thread. A few posters are making comments like this, that have this air of "we're letting Russia do whatever they want". I don't know what else they expect us to do Which is why I made the comment about Afghanistan. If you read the Afghanistan thread and this thread, the energy is way different. People were like fukk them Afghans basically. Now they acting like we supposed to intervene with Ukraine when this sh*t could get super ugly. It doesn't make a lick of sense.

Negro, you know good and well I wasn't arguing for NATO involvement in that post. Even @the next guy came back and said that he didn't even mean to quote me. He was trying to quote someone else.

You're just flailing looking for someone to blame for your inane rantings about NATO involvement when no one is currently saying that.

I'll grant you, some of us had musings of the sort towards the beginning of the conflict but I think everyone has abandoned that thinking by now as we see that Putin truly isn't playing with a full deck. No one really wants to risk a nuclear holocaust.

I will admit that towards the beginning of the conflict, I felt he was bluffing about putting a nuke in the air. That was before they started killing civilians and firing on evacuees after a no fire was negotiated. That showed me that Russia is off the rails right now, and them putting a nuke in the air, unfortunately, isn't seen as an empty threat at this point.