Russia's Invasion of Ukraine (Official Thread)

987654321

Superstar
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
7,575
Reputation
3,777
Daps
27,557
I guess another issue I have with this, is where was this energy when he took Crimea? I didn't follow that event as much as this one but it seems like that was just allowed to happen

I was still in the Army when they invaded in 2014. Our attitude was us being kind of excited for an opportunity to bring them down a notch. Things just stayed clandestine with special operations trainers advising until they had to leave.

We were kind of shocked that Ukraine was able to hold them off with the little Army they had, at the time. Other nations started getting sick of the appeasement and watching Russia cut notches out of countries that bordered it. The outrage was super big when Russians/LDR/Wagner shot down that airliner.

Everyone kind of made up their minds that they wouldn’t back down if it happened again. Russia shouldn’t have taken it a step further. That’s why everyone is happy to test weapons on them now.
 

hashmander

Hale End
Supporter
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Messages
19,051
Reputation
4,538
Daps
81,463
Reppin
The Arsenal
the landscape in various aspects was very different but more importantly obama was being prudent about legacy. you can tell a lot of the choices obama made was rooted in preserving his presidential legacy as the first black president. biden didn't come with that baggage and he's old school so russias antics are a no go.
nothing to do with legacy really, ukraine wasn't ready to fight in 2014. he did the sanctions thing and started training them. they went from a corrupt soviet style military system to a near western one in like 8 years (and half of that is with trump being hostile to those initiatives). it would have been a disaster if the US was arming Ukraine in a similar manner back then. all that 2022 russian propoganda about ukranians selling western weapons on the black market would have been true back then.

in 2014 the only option was a nato action against russia and that wasn't even an option in 2022. proxy war is the best option.
 

RiverCity916

South Sacramento
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Messages
1,124
Reputation
679
Daps
6,423
Reppin
Sacramento
I was listening to an excellent military podcast in the episode there was a Russian doctrine expert (I'm not a military breh and I'm translating so some of the terms might not be accurate)

Basically said that Russia's doctrine since WW2 has been :
- far too heavily influenced by WW2
- in opposition of Western doctrine(s)
- infantry/artillery based

Coupled with a strictly vertical and "systemic" command chain which does not give officers much room for improvisation and soldiers zero initiative, the failures of this war made total sense.

Dude said that the VKS (Russian Air Forces) in the russian doctrine is marginalized because the might of its armed forces is with the artillery and the sheer number of its infantry. Because of that air support is often subordinated to the infantry commander with little to no autonomy.

That leads to coordination issues in the field : when there are different battalions in the same operation, they all have their own air support which answers only to their battalion commander and do not really interact between each other.

Russia also did not develop any true response against air defence which was good in Ukraine. Basically, the Russian doctrine in opposition to the West, do not use its air force to cripple enemy's defences as it's the artillery's role. From a russian pov, it's dumb to send an aircraft against systems that are designed to down them overall considering how expensive they are.

The consistent opposition to Western doctrines is also a way to emphasize on their own strenghts with the will to show they can do the same as the West but differently.

All in all, that's some of the reasons of the failures and the difference between the West and Russia. Podcast was like 1h30 long so there were some other stuff also regarding training, strategies and organization but that should give a good summary.
Edit: I don't speak French
 
Last edited:
Top