Russian Civil War Coup started: Russian Army attacks its own Mercenaries

Orbital-Fetus

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Buddy from Wagner was a hot dog vendor.

The average Coli poster is probably more trained than he is.

Fred.

I'm not giving props to Wagner but Blackwater is full of clowns as well. You do remember the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and all the bullshyt Blackwater got up to, right?
 

Carl Tethers

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Russia can't lose the war in the sense that Ukraine wants to win it.

If Yev took Moscow the west would support Putin. You think they want a Prison nikka with access to nuclear codes?

Putin is a cop at the end of the day they can trust Putin more, He hasn't mobilized the full army and drafted people to go fight, nor has he released nukes.

No Nuclear power has been invaded the only reason to have nukes is to stop an inavsion. Ukraine crosses the border and all bets are off.

At some point the only thing that can happen is a negotiated ceasefire with NATO guarantees.

You do know that Russia has submarines They could lose the war and Putin can be killed and his sub commanders could launch nukes from under water and destroy the world.

Putin would piss on any agreed ceasefire the second he could get away with it


And everyone being shook of his "b-b-but nukes" posturing is what has allowed him to be a complete dikkhead :francis:
 

69 others

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If nukes ever get involved in any of this, it will probably be by accident, given the Russians history with nuclear materials.

I could see them accidentally launching a tactical nuke, mistaking it for a conventional warhead.
 

Orbital-Fetus

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If nukes ever get involved in any of this, it will probably be by accident, given the Russians history with nuclear materials.

I could see them accidentally launching a tactical nuke, mistaking it for a conventional warhead.
I would hope that nukes are kept very far away from any conventional warheads. That would be the stupidest thing a military could do.
 

Wiseborn

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Was entirely a Putin false flag.
Could be, No one got hurt no damage happened. The Generals who met with Yev got a pass too no one got fired.

And Wagner went to Belarus. Belarus is directly above Kiev. A quick dash to Kiev from Belarus and the war is over.

If Yev doesn't have a heart attack or fall out of a window soon I'm thinking this is fake news.
 

Wiseborn

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25,000 isn’t a small number. The Russian army is only some 300k most of which are unmotivated conscripts that are in Ukraine. US intelligence says he had an open road to Moscow and don’t know why he stopped. He likely just wanted to scare leadership into making a deal and didn’t want power.


At the end of the day, he doesn’t rebel if things were going well for Russia at the front. He has said multiple times the Russian military is underplaying its losses.
So you beleive that because Russia fukked up the attack that means there's losing just because they're not winning?

As long as Russia controls the Don and Crimea they ain't losing. Both areas are full of people that consider themselves Russian if Ukraine takes them then they have to deal with insurgencies financed by Russia for the foreseeable future.

If Russia loses Crimea and the port they're whole Naval strategy blows up in their faces.

I'd assume that if Russia would ever use nukes it would be when Ukraine takes Crimea.
 

degu9089

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I'm not giving props to Wagner but Blackwater is full of clowns as well. You do remember the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and all the bullshyt Blackwater got up to, right?
Erik Prince and his continued fukkery astound me. The only difference between him and the Prog is that he served in the SEALs, but he conducts his business in pretty much the same grimy way. He just isn’t as far gone as Prog.
 

Wiseborn

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Can you imagine Canada or Mexico having to step in and negotiate for the Jan 6 rioters to leave the capital?

It aint the same thing but I'm saying think of how weak it makes you look when something is happening in your nation and another nation has to intervene.

Putin is food in these streets. Everybody sees it.

Ole boy may have backed down cause he achieved his goal. He probably didn't want to be the one to go at Putin and take him out. But trust and believe, this is the catalyst for others to do it.

Putin was exposed today in the worst way that a dictator could ever be exposed.

It's over.
Belarus is completely controlled by Russia.

Let's say this was real. Maybe Putin didn't want to stoop to negotiating with his "Chef" like that and like Lukoshenko handle his light work.

I mean to invade moscow they would need gas and Tires and the Russian air force would've had a clear view.

You'd have to assume that Putin would've lost control over his entire strategic bomber fleet and those Iranian drones weren't available to think that they could kill that fat juicy target.

So basically you'd be saying that Putin lost control over the military and they'd refuse to fight expect the Army is fighting right now in Ukriane.

Also what happened to the Wagner boys in Africa and Syria?
 

Wiseborn

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After combing through the more reliable outlets of the independent Russian press and social media, I had a lengthy conversation with Mikhail Zygar, one of the most knowledgeable reporters and commentators on Kremlin power. Zygar is a former editor-in-chief of TV Rain (known as Dozhd in Russian) an independent channel that Putin closed after the start of the war.

When I asked Zygar what was the most striking aspect of the uprising, he said, “Putin is weaker. I have the feeling he is not really running the country. Certainly, not the way he once did. He is still President, but all the different clans”—the factions within the government, the military, and, most important, the security services—“now have the feeling that ‘Russia after Putin’ is getting closer. Putin is still alive. He is still there in his bunker. But there is the growing feeling that he is a lame duck, and they have to prepare for Russia after Putin.”

In ideological terms, Zygar said, “Prigozhin combines two ideas. The first is anti-corruption and anti-oligarch. Despite his own wealth, which is immense, he always portrayed himself as the oligarch-fighter. At the same time, he is super illiberal. He hates the West, and he claims to be the real protector of traditional values. He probably has more supporters beyond the Wagner Group; there are people in the Army, the F.S.B., the Interior Ministry, who could be his ideological allies.”

“Prigozhin has a distinct background,” Zygar said. “He speaks the way prisoners speak. He is the average guy. He went the same way that Putin did twenty years ago when politicians, in 1999, were very old and looked dead and Soviet. They couldn’t speak the language of the people. Putin spoke like a gangster, like a gopnik, like someone from the Leningrad slums. That was a cultural coup—a guy who knows the problems of the simple people. Prigozhin has come along and has followed that pattern in an even more brutal way.”

“Before this rebellion, there were a lot of rumors and theories about different clans supporting Prigozhin. There were rumors that he was supported by siloviki [security-service figures] in business like Igor Sechin [the C.E.O. of the energy conglomerate Rosneft and a former Deputy Prime Minister] and Sergey Chemezov [the C.E.O. of the state-owned defense conglomerate, Rostec].”
Zygar went on, “The F.S.B. [a successor to the K.G.B.] and G.R.U. [military intelligence] is not a single clan; it is a mixture of different clans, and we will see how they are going to react. For years, Putin has selected his inner circle with only one criterion: a lack of ambition. They are not the best of the best. They are the worst of the worst. So how will such mediocrities face up to one desperately brave person, or a desperately brave group of terrorists? We will see.”

LOL what happened when they "took over" Russia in 1905? What happened when they took over in 1991?

If Putin ain't in charge who is?

Couldn't the "real leader" make a deal and leave Ukraine?
 
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