RIP Kevin Samuels

TNC

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And that’s the real crux of the issue.
If every marriage-aged woman got her act together in the next 1-3 years, will there be enough “HVM” to go around? Or will you have women who prepared for a certain type of man and lifestyle, still working 40-50hrs a week, contributing financially and still expected to be Susie homemaker and provide thrills in the bedroom?

So the focus has to shift from this materialistic stuff and get down to what we need: true nation building and healthy, balanced relationships.


See... I think your post here is the real crux of the issue...

Women behaving in that manner is that they are SUPPOSED TO DO. Its how biology and society has been structure for eons. A High Value Man is not the "reward" for doing what you are supposed to, that stuff should come standard. The fact it doesn't anymore is why relationships, marriage and families are so broken down in society today. Our Black brothers and sisters pay the highest cost because we are already at the bottom in man ways. Whether you in the church or not, there is normally a structure in marriage or a relationship. If women don't want to play their roles in the relationships, they don't have to, but they risk not being in a relationship at all by doing so.

Its up to every individual but as we can all see by the numbers, its not ending well for most.
 

TNC

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It's in the majority of ABW DNA to do this.


Its not the DNA, its the culture.

Black Women didn't always act like this. Society, Marketing and Industry have manipulated woman into becoming these things. KS used to speak on this in moments as well because there is a financial incentive to the economy for keeping (black) families apart. Two Rent payments instead of One mortgage, more going out to eat than home cooked meals, individual cars for everyone instead of one family vehicle, etc.

And as usual, everything hits the black community the hardest, strongest and longest.
 

Gloxina

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See... I think your post here is the real crux of the issue...

Women behaving in that manner is that they are SUPPOSED TO DO. Its how biology and society has been structure for eons. A High Value Man is not the "reward" for doing what you are supposed to, that stuff should come standard. The fact it doesn't anymore is why relationships, marriage and families are so broken down in society today. Our Black brothers and sisters pay the highest cost because we are already at the bottom in man ways. Whether you in the church or not, there is normally a structure in marriage or a relationship. If women don't want to play their roles in the relationships, they don't have to, but they risk not being in a relationship at all by doing so.

Its up to every individual but as we can all see by the numbers, its not ending well for most.
No, don’t get me wrong- of course that’s the natural course of things.

My issue with KS’s message was focusing on which women deserve what, and what women need to do to secure a “HVM”.

Regardless of race, there aren’t enough of them to go around. The focus should’ve always been on creating and maintaining healthy relationships and families where neither party feels used or abused.

If he’s making videos telling every childless woman 18-30 (whose looks are 8+, which we know isn’t the case looking at many successful men’s wives) to be fit, feminine, maintain a certain look, etc and she’s in the running for a “HVM” and EVERY SINGLE WOMAN does it- they all won’t be getting the man he is describing. THEN WHAT?? MOVE THE GOALPOST?

As a woman, I have my role, and as a man you have your role.
We have to have some serious conversations about why people do not want to play their part anymore.

No man wants to be unappreciated or used and solely desired for his money, just like no woman wants to contribute to a household financially, do all the housework and still have to worry about infidelity. Burnout is real on the job AND in the household. No one wants to feel like they are getting a raw deal.

Sometimes you get a raw deal if you don’t know how to pick the right partner, but that’s why the focus should’ve been on finding the right partner and not why you aren’t good enough for a “HVM”.

Yes, there are definitely some selfish people in the world, but there are people holding out because they are scared of the possible negative outcomes.
 
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No, don’t get me wrong- of course that’s the natural course of things.

My issue with KS’s message was focusing on which women deserve what, and what women need to do to secure a “HVM”.

Regardless of race, there aren’t enough of them to go around. The focus should’ve always been on creating and maintaining healthy relationships and families where neither party feels used or abused.

If he’s making videos telling every childless woman 18-30 (whose looks are 8+, which we know isn’t the case looking at many successful men’s wives) to be fit, feminine, maintain a certain look, etc and she’s in the running for a “HVM” and EVERY SINGLE WOMAN does it- they all won’t be getting the man he is describing. THEN WHAT?? MOVE THE GOALPOST?

As a woman, I have my role, and as a man you have your role.
We have to have some serious conversations about why people do not want to play their part anymore.

No man wants to be unappreciated or used and solely desired for his money, just like no woman wants to contribute to a household financially, do all the housework and still have to worry about infidelity. Burnout is real on the job AND in the household. No one wants to feel like they are getting a raw deal.

Sometimes you get a raw deal if you don’t know how to pick the right partner, but that’s why the focus should’ve been on finding the right partner and not why you aren’t good enough for a “HVM”.

Yes, there are definitely some selfish people in the world, but there are people holding out because they are scared of the possible negative outcomes.
Your conflating several issues here. HVM are extremely limited in supply, if you focus on finances (magical $100k) it's roughly ~12% of American men. In a capitalistic system, where labor is exchange for profit this is not easy to obtain for long strides. Let's control for marriage, sexual preference, racial preference and/or what women deem important today - height and/or looks. What does that number look like now?

Ask yourself, why do most women feel entitled to one. (Something, something guarantees and freedom from working to survive)

KS shows has exposed women of several backgrounds from respectable backgrounds to less desirable what we men known all along - roughly 80% of women desire / want and realistically believe they can obtain the top ~12% of the men (from an income perspective). They came on his show, and we *found out* they did not want average men and/or men in the lower 80% by their answers about lifestyle. If they don't have one of these top men, they feel as if they settled. If they felt that way, then the men there are with tend not to be respected and held in high regard because she thinks she can do better. Divorce stats, looking at you right now. Outside from those in upper income, divorce for women negatively impact their finances - look at debt, and dire retirement accounts.

Imagine what that does on the mind of a man - wait most don't care about men issues. If a man told a woman, you know I could be with more attractive women, they would go crazy (hyperbole). You did not settle as water seeks its own level. Women / men are with what they can get / retain.

That aside, most HVM are older (it's take time to acquire resources + establish a network) and met their spouses at a younger age when they were building. Your judging their spouses physical appearance as of today. Contrary to popular belief, men are not as heartless with women as women make them out to be. By your logic, those men should simply divorce and seek younger women. That would indeed fall into your narrative right?

Put it this way, men generally cherish women who were with them from the mud. However enter our lives when we are HV, then the price is significantly higher. You will overwhelmingly find the beauty requirement met (the age difference pronounced too). Also beauty from women in today's market is heavily inflated (makeup, surgeries, etc) and not worth the same as yesteryear while the income from these men is damn near at an all-time premium. You can easily fake one, and not necessarily the other (pandemic exposed most fragile lifestyles - a symptom of hyper capitalism in US).

It's no longer enough to be single, childless, and 8+ and there are no guarantees you'll be on HVM radars since most are married. Unless you want them to cheat with you for access to resources or worse leave what they have for you. This has been done before by hyper intentional women and it does take two to tango.

Infidelity is one issue that I struggle to understand from a women's point of view. As long as a man is not bringing outside children, diseases and public embarrassment (if few know, it is a nothing burger), is it the sharing of resources which you desire to horde for your and yours that is insulting to you. And no exercising options don't go both ways as double standards exists and are generally accepted.

Men don't like women infidelity because the chance of children not being his and the violation of his women, which we are seeing from these DNA tests is much higher than previously known. Women grasp at infidelity as if that is equal to be a man being used for his money. Roughly ~40% of men reproduced in human history. Surely infidelity from women ran rampant and some of these children are not by the men they proclaim. I find this personally to be extremely insulting and disrespectful.

A better equivalent is men desires sex + power and women want attention (received mainly from looks) + appreciation.

In any relationship (personal, financial, etc) power dynamics are at play. Someone (person, entity, etc) always have more leverage than the other. I don't understand why you think it has to be neutralized, this is the way of the world. Also, this reflects a possible underlying fear of yours in a relationship that you will be used and abused - whatever that means and you want a guarantee. You revealed that fear in your last sentence. Please ask yourself why are you in a scarcity mindset. What's the underlying insecurity, because something(s) is there where you feel as if you don't measure up to other women to retain the attention / appreciation from a man you deem worthy. Women or men that are competitive fret about such issues at a significantly lesser occurrence as they know they can attract + retain another man and make more money, respectively. We know most are not and prefer security - let's say men marry for guaranteed sex and women marry for guaranteed resources. Case in point, employees are used / abused on the daily. However, the outcome is compensation to offset it, right?

Men of a certain status can get the raw deal from relationships as marriage has been the greatest wealth transfer for women. Imagine that, not their own careers, investments and businesses. An association with the right man is how most wealth (I'll gander 95%+) is obtained for women. The problem is that there are few of these men and this is by design.

TLDR: There are few guarantees in life outside of death and taxes. Be competitive at all times to thrive or let's make a deal to survive.
 
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Gloxina

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Your conflating several here. HVM are extremely limited in supply, if you focus on finances (magical $100k) it's roughly ~12% of American men. In a capitalistic system, where labor is exchange for profit this is not easy to obtain for long strides. Let's control for marriage, sexual preference, racial preference and/or what women deem important today - height and/or looks. What does that number look like now?

Ask yourself, why do most women feel entitled to one. (Something, something guarantees and freedom from working to survive)

KS show has exposed women of several backgrounds what we men known all along - roughly 80% of women desire / want and realistically believe they can obtain the top ~12% of the men (from an income perspective). They came on his show, and we found out they did not want average men and/or men in the lower 80% by their answers about lifestyle. If they don't have one of these top men, they feel as if they settled. If they felt that way, then the men there are with tend not to be respected and held in high regard because she thinks she can do better. Divorce stats, looking at you right now. Outside from those in upper income, divorce for women negatively impact their finances - look at women's debt, and dire retirement accounts.

Imagine what that does on the mind of a man - wait most don't care about men issues. If a man told a women, you know I could be with more attractive women, they would go crazy (hyperbole). You did not settle as water seeks its own level. Women / men are with what they can get / retain.

That aside, most HVM are older (it's take time to acquire resources + establish a network) and met their spouses at a younger age when they were not HVM. Your judging their spouses physical appearance as of today. Contrary to popular belief, men are not as heartless with women as women make them out to be. By your logic, those men should simply divorce and seek younger ones. That would indeed fall into your narrative right?

Put it this way, men generally cherish women who were with them from the mud. However enter our lives when we are HV, then the price is significantly higher. You will overwhelmingly find the beauty requirement met (the age difference pronounced too). Also beauty from women in today's market is heavily inflated (makeup, surgeries, etc) and not worth the same as yesteryear while the income from these men is damn near an all-time premium. You can easily fake one, and not necessarily the other (pandemic exposed most fragile lifestyles - a symptom of hyper capitalism in US).

It's no longer enough to be single, childless, and 8+ and there are no guarantees you'll be on HVM radars since most are married. Unless you want them to cheat with you for access to resources or worst leave what they have for you. This has be done before by hyper intentional women and it does take two to tango.

Infidelity is one issue that I struggle to understand from a women's point of view. As long as a man is not bringing outside children, diseases and public embarrassment (If few know, it is a nothing burger), is it the sharing of resources which you desire to horde for your and yours that is insulting to you. And no exercising options don't go both ways as double standards exists and are generally accepted.

Men don't like women infidelity because the chance of children not being his and the violation of his women, which we are seeing from these DNA tests is much higher than previously known. Women grasp at infidelity as if that is equal to be a man being used for his money. Roughly ~40 of men reproduced in human history. Surely, infidelity from women ran rampant and some of these children are not by the men they proclaim. I find this personally to be extremely insulting and disrespectful.

A better equivalent is men desires sex + power and women want attention (received mainly from looks) + appreciation.

In any relationship (personal, financial, etc) they are power dynamics at play. Someone (person, entity, etc) always have more leverage than the other. I don't understand why you think it has to be neutralized, this is the way of the world. - let's say men marry for guaranteed sex and women marry for guaranteed resources. Case in point, employees are used / abused on the daily. However, the outcome is compensation to offset it, right?

Men of a certain status can get the raw deal from relationships, marriage has been the greatest wealth transfer for women. Imagine that, not their own careers, investments and businesses. An association with the right men is how most wealth (I'll gander 95%+) is obtained for women.

TLDR: There are few guarantees in life outside of death and taxes. Be competitive at all times to thrive or let's work a deal to survive.
Also, this reflects a possible underlying fear of yours in a relationship that you will be used and abused - whatever that means and you want a guarantee. You revealed that fear in your last sentence. Please ask yourself why are you in a scarcity mindset. What's the underlying insecurity, because something(s) is there where you feel as if you don't measure up to other women to retain the attention / appreciation from a man you deem worthy. Women or men that are competitive fret about such issues at a significantly lesser occurrence as they know they can attract + retain another man and make more money, respectively. We know most are not and prefer security

Lol, No. I’m pretty competitive and have never complained about “HVM”.

Firstly, did anyone stop and think that the women who were dumb enough to plaster their faces on the internet to discuss this topic are probably out of their minds? Any woman who is actually only dealing with “HVM” knows how tacky it is to discuss money, especially someone ELSE’s money. Those women don’t represent majority of women.

And there is no fear about not measuring up…lol

Every woman is confident in her marriage until her husband’s infidelity is revealed, until she gets smacked around for the first time, until she gets left for someone else, until she realizes she’s married someone who won’t help around the house or help with the kids AT ALL.
Some women witnessed some things in their childhoods that may cause apprehension.
 
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Every woman is confident in her marriage until her husband’s infidelity is revealed, until she gets smacked around for the first time, until she gets left for someone else, until she realizes she’s married someone who won’t help around the house or help with the kids AT ALL.
Some women witnessed some things in their childhoods that may cause apprehension.

I would say, women discuss both men money and other women appearance. I can't believe I typed that - cold world :francis:. Men discuss women appearance.

Again, you find what you seek. If you think about the negatives, what happens. Why not focus on the inverse instead for a greater life.

Let's go through this checklist:
  • Infidelity: Not as much a big deal for men as it is for women. Did I mention double standard?
  • DV: Sensitivity required here - don't know the full picture and clear definitions need to be set. I noticed you mentioned physical. I view physical, verbal, and emotional on the same plane. That's what I'll say of that.
  • Breakup: Most women end relationships, not men - 70%+ in marriages. If you are competitive, why the big worry. Again, the fear crept up again.
  • Housework: In the modern age, this is not a big pull anymore with the advent of appliances. Men should know how to cook / clean now and focus on home repair, garbage, car, etc.
  • Kids: Men overwhelmingly trust women to do what's best for the children - that's another way to view it. Women generally want men to be physically available, arm-in-arm for their help to be recognized. We help in others ways that is not always tangible. Our looming presence in the background is a strong deterrent for errant behavior in children. Essentially, we don't need to be there day-to-day in the weeds for our contributions to be recognized and/or valued.
Mothers are the first transmitter of culture for children. I focus on high level and set direction. You focus on executing the game plan and if a discussion is needed, I value your counsel and highly trust + value you in your role.

As an aside, I strongly value stay at home mothers. That said, there will be a requirement for her to work and put some financial skin in the game. I better understand now that women value having their own lives and careers outside of The Family.

As far as the childhood stuff, not my problem. Go seek professional help as an adult. The world does not owe you understanding.

Overall, this may speak to more of how hyper capitalism has ran afoul and/or that access to information made people wake up. People potential lifestyles are deflated due to resources horded by a few.
 
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London baby.
There will never be another Kevin Samuels. His rebuttals to the bullshyt we're spot on and some backed by data.

None of these cats have the same charisma to get the message across. Most want to pander to women. If not they are very soft and want to make excuses for them
Kevin had actually been in the field that’s why he didn’t have time for no bs.

He made a good point in one of his videos where the chick said, “so I gotta settle for a regular type dude?” :why:

And he was like, “my grandmother had a 6th grade education, my grandfather had a 4th grade education, and they gave us a legacy we still haven’t lived up to with twice as much resources.”

When elders get onto you like that there is no rebuttal yet she still disputed :dahell:
 

TNC

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No, don’t get me wrong- of course that’s the natural course of things.

My issue with KS’s message was focusing on which women deserve what, and what women need to do to secure a “HVM”.

Regardless of race, there aren’t enough of them to go around. The focus should’ve always been on creating and maintaining healthy relationships and families where neither party feels used or abused.

If he’s making videos telling every childless woman 18-30 (whose looks are 8+, which we know isn’t the case looking at many successful men’s wives) to be fit, feminine, maintain a certain look, etc and she’s in the running for a “HVM” and EVERY SINGLE WOMAN does it- they all won’t be getting the man he is describing. THEN WHAT?? MOVE THE GOALPOST?

As a woman, I have my role, and as a man you have your role.
We have to have some serious conversations about why people do not want to play their part anymore.

No man wants to be unappreciated or used and solely desired for his money, just like no woman wants to contribute to a household financially, do all the housework and still have to worry about infidelity. Burnout is real on the job AND in the household. No one wants to feel like they are getting a raw deal.

Sometimes you get a raw deal if you don’t know how to pick the right partner, but that’s why the focus should’ve been on finding the right partner and not why you aren’t good enough for a “HVM”.

Yes, there are definitely some selfish people in the world, but there are people holding out because they are scared of the possible negative outcomes.


Per the bolded, with all due respect, if that's the message you received from KS then I believe you missed his point.

KS routinely asked women, of all types, what they wanted in a man. They ALL routinely described similar types of men fitting that HVM profile. There is an extremely short supply of those types of men so to even be in contention for them, you need to fit the profile of what THEY want.



The greater issue is that far too many women (not all( are a bit delusional and out of touch with reality and where they stand in the dating market. Its also important to know you cannot control people or make them do things they don't want to do. Too many of the women in the dating market are unwilling to even try to build a healthy relationship with a man unless he fits that HVM mold.

KS has years of the same stuff rehashed in different ways to the point he started to streamline his message, for efficiency. There are NO guarantees in life, we all know this. KS shouldn't have to say "you might not get the man you want", that should be obvious by the reality of life. He's telling the women they need to COMPETE for the man they want, in the same fashion men compete for the women they want or we all compete for the things we want in life.


As far as the roles, I agree with you that we both have a part to play, however another issue in dating today is that those roles have become blurred and many people, on both sides, don't want to play their natural roles. They don't have to, but those positions need to be filled, otherwise there is a gap in the foundation.

KS also implied that people's feelings are less important than their results, WHICH IS TRUE. You are correct that burnout happens at any job and nobody wants to feel like they are getting a raw deal but WE ALL STILL HAVE TO PERFORM AND DEAL WITH IT ANYWAY. We've ALL gotten raw deals at work or in life sometimes, it sucks. But you don't just give up, you learn and improve your performance from there.


What KS was doing was putting a hard reality lens on the entirely of the dating market. Most men already know this and have to accept the fact that they need to up their game or deal with lesser options, I think the issue is that most women have never had that reality thrust in their face in the same manner boys receive it their entire lives. I understand how off-putting it can be to have your perceptions of life completely uprooted but all KS spoke about is how men have and continue to see things from their POV for all of our entire lives.
 

NO-BadAzz

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Kevin had actually been in the field that’s why he didn’t have time for no bs.

He made a good point in one of his videos where the chick said, “so I gotta settle for a regular type dude?” :why:

And he was like, “my grandmother had a 6th grade education, my grandfather had a 4th grade education, and they gave us a legacy we still haven’t lived up to with twice as much resources.”

When elders get onto you like that there is no rebuttal yet she still disputed :dahell:

I saw that show, there was a cold chill that ran down my spine when he said that, I watched that show about 3-4 times that DAY and played that part that he said about 10-11 times, that statement hit hard and probably has forever changed my outlook on life and women.

He said one time when a woman made the same comment about "having to settle with a man making 40k" he said "No ma'am, he would be settling for you"

He said one time to a woman that made the comment about "I have to lower my standards, or lower the bar to select the men that are not in the 1%" and KS said, "ma'am you are in that lower bar also"

The man had so much wisdom. I still learn things from his past shows. Dude really left a legacy.
 

NO-BadAzz

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I had a discussion with a woman, and she told me about the story of the football player, that made his gf pay half for everything, (which I think is a lie, women lie about the silliest shyt). The lady I was talking to said that she wouldn't do such. I asked her would she leave her meal ticket, the football player or any man if they made you do such a thing? She said yes, so I said, you do know, that there's no guarantee that you will get a dude of that status, she paused and thought about it, then I said, the reason buddy is probably making her pay 50/50 could be many reasons, that the gf hasn't stated.

If he's a nice dude, not abusive and she stuck it out with dude for 5 years as a gf and now she decides to leave the relationship because she has to pay half, what does that say about her? Would she be with a dude, who is an a$$hole, selfish, pays for everything? Which one would you rather have, was my question?

The chick who I was talking to about this situation, put blame on the football player, saying that is what men are supposed to do, pay for everything, so I then said, ok, let's go with that notion of yours, so why isn't the gf a wife?

Gf for 5 years? Something she's not doing, to have that man wanting to marry her, did you ask yourself that, why is she's someone gf for 5 years paying for half? I told her, I can guess many of reasons to why she's so call paying half for everything, she has an all women are equal just like men are mindset and she's dealing with a man who has a 50/50 mindset, she's not a wife, she's a fun girl in his head.

I then said, men like that want something, if you want my money, want me to pay for everything, then you will be the woman that I want and desire in MY mind to have as a wife, there are rules, guidelines and structure/protocol that you must follow if you want to be with me, and I bet you that she is not following that format.

She can't be when she got on twitter just not too long ago to call out another football player, Cam Newton, she still thinking like a bird/independent woman, that doesn't get you a ring.

I'm making 6 figures, and you want to get with me, use my resources, that comes with rules and regulations, you will be the kind of woman that I want and you will follow my rules and protocols. You will be an asset and not a liability.

I think a lot of women don't understand that part of the game, and as a breh stated, most of these men making this type of money are older men, those men are not going to put up with masculine energy from a woman, thot vibes. Those brehs are "old-school" men, they have seen their grandmothers and grandfathers live life and they want that same setup.

The women of today are not on that type of time, some of them I will say, that's why they can't get the ring.
 
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