Rican HipHop pioneers giving the dates of when they entered/first saw HipHop being done. They were not there from the start by their own admissions!

[IllmaticDelta]

No, you did not answer the question. You must not have comprehended it too well.

I did answer your question. By me showing/telling you how the creolization process played out in birthing jazz, it was to show you exactly why that, while that description describes jazz in a "loose" sense, it is highly inaccurate because saying "Jazz is a mixture of africa and europe" it doesn't account for the fact that ADOS actually invented their own musical/harmonic language that can't be clearly identified in anything old world African or old world Europe. This is why both Africans and Euros were when they first heard Jazz music.


read:

The blues is a foundational element of America’s vernacular and art music. It is commonly described as a combination of African rhythms and European harmonies. This description is inaccurate. Blues follows harmonic conventions that are quite different from those of Western European common practice. Blues harmony does not fit into major or minor tonality, and it frequently violates the “rules” of voice leading and chord function. But blues listeners do not experience the music as strange or dissonant. Instead, they hear an alternative form of consonance. In order to make sense of this fact, we need to understand blues as belonging to its own system of tonality, distinct from major, minor and modal scales. Because blues tonality is so widespread and important in Western music, I argue that we should teach it as part of the basic music theory curriculum

Blues tonality

See a more beginner-friendly blues primer here. Read this treatise in Spanish, translated by Jesús Fernández. Abstract The blues is a foundational element of America’s vernacular and art music. It …

www.ethanhein.com

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You attempted to make a parallel between Jazz and European music and HipHop and the Pre-Hiphop things that influenced it. I'm saying that Jazz is completely different from its old africa and old europe influences because of creolization and new harmonic musical inventions that its host population (ADOS) invented whereas Rap (music), as it started in the 1970s wasn't new at all. It was exactly like what influenced it, just in a more modern and/or out front setting.


The first songs to sound completely like hiphop (meaning, over a funk beat) came in the 1960s/early 1970s because Funk (breakbeats) was born no earlier than 1965

1968



1972



even earlier w/o the Funk (breaks)

 

[Shadow King]

I did answer your question. By me showing/telling you how the creolization process played out in birthing jazz, it was to show you exactly why that, while that description describes jazz in a "loose" sense, it is highly inaccurate because saying "Jazz is a mixture of africa and europe" it doesn't account for the fact that ADOS actually invented their own musical/harmonic language that can't be clearly identified in anything old world African or old world Europe. This is why both Africans and Euros were when they first heard Jazz music.


read:

Blues tonality

See a more beginner-friendly blues primer here. Read this treatise in Spanish, translated by Jesús Fernández. Abstract The blues is a foundational element of America’s vernacular and art music. It …

www.ethanhein.com

.
.

You attempted to make a parallel between Jazz and European music and HipHop and the Pre-Hiphop things that influenced it. I'm saying that Jazz is completely different from its old africa and old europe influences because of creolization and new harmonic musical inventions that its host population (ADOS) invented whereas Rap (music), as it started in the 1970s wasn't new at all. It was exactly like what influenced it, just in a more modern and/or out front setting.


The first songs to sound completely like hiphop (meaning, over a funk beat) came in the 1960s/early 1970s because Funk (breakbeats) was born no earlier than 1965

1968



1972



even earlier w/o the Funk (breaks)

Jazz being different does not mean it did not come from what I said it came from. You can keep posting videos but the fact is they were inspired by something that existed already.

So, no, my yes or no question was not answered.

 

[Ish Gibor]

Jazz being different does not mean it did not come from what I said it came from. You can keep posting videos but the fact is they were inspired by something that existed already.

So what has this particular influence been you keep arguing over? As always you have no logical explanation and contribution, but for because I say so (I said it came from).

As I said prior, when go into actual intellectual "music theory" debates held by professionals (which you are NOT). There's a lot of nuances and uncertainties when it comes to the origin of Blues chord and progression (harmony). The most common claim is that Blues has a "I IV V" pattern, thus us the European influence, and that is the fundamental claim people make. The other claim is, because of the predominantly "Western instruments", although they Black Americans) had no choice but for using what was in their proximity.

With that being said, @IllmaticDelta explained it and you have no argument against it but for no it's not. Nowhere have you been able to show a counter argument based on music theory, that actually makes sense. I think you yourself don't even understand your own question and argument. Simply because you're just saying anything, as you do so often.

We have to take it a step further, into anthropology.





"Which is not to say that slaveholders who appreciated the musical skills of their slaves were enlightened precursors to Abraham Lincoln. In fact, Dubois’s book contains numerous references to newspaper advertisements written by slaveholders searching for their runaway slaves.
In addition to the usual list of distinguishing characteristics—age, height, weight, scars—these slaveholders would also highlight the ability of their slaves to play instruments such as fiddles and banjos. As a result, runaways ran the risk of being caught in the act of playing music, which happened to be one of the few ways for people of color to earn money away from the plantation. For runaway slaves, music could be a trap."

Strummin’ on the Old Banjo: How an African Instrument Got a Racist Reinvention

"The banjo in postwar America was perceived primarily as a white, rural instrument."There are entire websites devoted to banjo jokes, so we could spend al...

www.collectorsweekly.com

"Although the first fiddles came with European immigrants, who played songs including reels and jigs, fiddles also became a strong part of African American music tradition in Appalachia, particularly in dance contexts."

History of Fiddle - Georgia Pick and Bow Traditional Music School

Fiddles at Vintage Music Also known as violin, the fiddle is a type of bowed stringed instrument that is known for taking the lead on melodies and providing rhythm by means of bowing styles. Early relatives of the fiddle were present in the Middle Eastern

www.georgiapickandbow.org

"When African people were initially brought to the American colonies; instruments such as drums were banned. This ban stemmed from the Europeans’ fear, the drum was a communications device the enslaved use to secretly exchange messages without their knowledge. Although brought over from Africa as well, the fiddle was viewed differently. The fiddle was well liked among most Europeans. It gained great popularity within both African and European cultures. Due to its popularity, often times, slave masters would have enslaved persons play the fiddle at their social events. Since Black fiddlers and White fiddlers had two different playing styles and techniques, Black fiddlers would combine the two thereby accommodating Europeans while holding onto their traditional style. This incredible fusion became the genre known today as secular folk music."

Fiddle: The Unsung Instrument – Black Music Scholar

Fidde: The Unsung Instrument Origin The fiddle (or bowed lute) originated in West Africa from a string instrument referred to as Gonje (pictured above) by the Hausa people in Nigeria, Gondze in Ghana and Nyanyeru in the country known today as Senegal (Senegambia). The instrument has one, two, or...

blackmusicscholar.com

The violin, pulling on the heartstrings of Africa

The violin, in all its forms, undoubtably plays a major role in the music of the African continent. Here we present an overview of the stringed instrument.

pan-african-music.com

African musical instruments

The following are some of the African musical instruments used throughout the continent, primarily sub-Saharan:

www.contemporary-african-art.com

So, no, my yes or no question was not answered.

 

[K.O.N.Y]

I 100% answered your question; you probably just didn't comprehend what I posted

yo im crying

you did a deep tissue massage on that nikkas question. What that nikka talikng bout

 

[K.O.N.Y]

Jazz being different does not mean it did not come from what I said it came from. You can keep posting videos but the fact is they were inspired by something that existed already.

So, no, my yes or no question was not answered.

how does this relate to caribbean origins of hip hop

Or did you angle this to deviate that you were wrong

 

[Shadow King]

how does this relate to caribbean origins of hip hop

Or did you angle this to deviate that you were wrong

It's called logic, and checking to see if one is consistent in theirs.

How are you still talking to me when I apparently had nothing to offer? Is it because you realize that maybe that statement actually applies to you?

 

[K.O.N.Y]

It's called logic, and checking to see if one is consistent in theirs.

How are you still talking to me when I apparently had nothing to offer? Is it because you realize that maybe that statement actually applies to you?

Bro im from THE BRONX and laughing at you

 

[Shadow King]

Bro im from THE BRONX and laughing at you

I give 0 fukks where you're from and I'm laughing at your dikk riding ass too.

 

[Ish Gibor]

It's called logic, and checking to see if one is consistent in theirs.

How are you still talking to me when I apparently had nothing to offer? Is it because you realize that maybe that statement actually applies to you?

Man, just stop it. You already look ridiculous and foolish here. It’s best to do damage control and say nothing.

And if you are going to say something, let it be a valid argument. Not an “opinion”.

I give 0 fukks where you're from and I'm laughing at your dikk riding ass too.

More of your dumb interpolation.

According to you, this is the root of Blues and Jazz.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

The reason there weren't masses of Latinos in the foundational years of early HipHop (1970-1974) is because HipHop was a youth/early 20s movement amongst blacks and this also happens to the be the same age range as what comprised the gang members that were roaming the Bronx amongst Ricans and Blacks.. Because of this, Blacks and Ricans of that age range were enemies and used to rumble against each other

Spoiler

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A black gang member from the 1970s says "You couldn't talk to a Puerto Rican chick as a black man in the Bronx and live (meaning you were gonna get beatdown by Rican men). It wasn't happening"




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even as late as 1977, the gang element was impacting relations with black and ricans as told/confirmed by 2 of the early Rican bboys (pre-crazy legs and rock steady crew) Trac 2 (1977) and Abby (1978)




here is abby and trac2 talking about the negative energy that existed between blacks and latins (ricans) and that the two groups used to rumble against each other. It wasn't until they had a meeting with zulu nation that (1977), that energy died off and the two groups came together (this is late 1970s)

Disco Wiz (the first latin dj in hiphop 1975) talking about the violence between black and rican gangs and how it was hard for him to deal with as a "Latino" trying to be a dj in a "black" artform

 

[K.O.N.Y]

I give 0 fukks where you're from and I'm laughing at your dikk riding ass too.

Who am I dikk riding

 

[Ish Gibor]

Who am I dikk riding

He probable means the valid arguments that have been cosigned, which he couldn't refute.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Jazz being different does not mean it did not come from what I said it came from. You can keep posting videos but the fact is they were inspired by something that existed already.

So, no, my yes or no question was not answered.

 

[Shadow King]

 

[Ish Gibor]

You are now known for vicariously living in Michael Jordans shadow. MJ too has roots in North Carolina.

Michael Jordan | Biography, Stats, & Facts | Britannica

Michael Jordan, the iconic basketball superstar known for his unmatched athleticism and competitive drive, revolutionized the game while winning six NBA championships with the Chicago Bulls.

www.britannica.com