Reports: Lakers offering Gasol for Joshua"Mid Range Shawty"Smith and Kyle Korver

[Bob Loblaw]

Kupchak plays too much 2k.

Do it Mitch.

 

[ExodusNirvana]

If this goes down...

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Yeah...disagree with pretty much all of that...and Yup, again i'd take that risk...because after all the talk of josh being some reckless jumping shooting terrorist, we're left with worst case scenario a low 40% jump shooting pf on offense...with is what we got in Pau right damn now...but with worse defense and less explosiveness in the open court...and less ability to match up with small line ups trotted out by other contenders in the league...

I'd absolutely take his ability to attack the rim over the possibility of Pau's ability-production at hesitating on taking open jumpers and swinging the ball with no real purpose...averaging 12pts in playoff series while getting dominated and taken out of games by a 6'6 players...I'm done with all these abstract discussions about Pau's "ability and iq" based on what he did 4 years ago playing another position...I've already seen where the argument ends the last two playoffs...I'll happily take whatever supposed peril and doom would await this team replacing pau for josh on offense, for what it'd stand to gain on the end of the floor

Naw, it's not all talk - it's reality. How can the worst case scenario (of Smith) be a 40% jumpshooting PF, when he hits outside shots at:

2012/2013 season - 10ft to 3pt = 20% (39 attempts)
2011/2012 season - 10ft to 3pt = 32% (500 attempts)

Compared to Pau:

2012/2013 season - 10ft to 3pt = 41% (45 attempts)
2011/2012 season - 10ft to 3pt = 39% (437 attempts)

That's a 10% swing between the two. Then you factor in their FT% (they have similar attempts per game) = Smith - 49% over the aforementioned seasons and Gasol - 83% over the aforementioned seasons. That's a lot of production being left on the table - will he make up the difference in defense and paint points? How will that affect the fluidity of the D'Antoni's offense when it's predicated on a 4 that can actually stretch the floor (and not a 4 that think's he can stretch the floor)? How will that affect games when teams lay off Smith when he's got possession (on the perimeter from PNR/PNP) and they help-defending on other players and blocking off the paint? How will that affect the morale of the team? How will that affect Kobe's game when he has to take extra x-portions of other players ' workloads and dig the team out of offensive-holes? How will that affect Howard's game when the help-defender is closer to close out on him?

There's TOO many questions to make this trade a sensible and projected-profitable trade from the Lakers POV - especially when their window is as small as it is. It's not abstract talk, it's not like he doesn't have that IQ any more. He's still got the majority of that championship-ability, but it's obvious the constant struggle with position placement and the fact he's been shopped around ever since has impacted his play. Hopefully D'Antoni will bring out the best in him and utilize the MANY talents he still has; a sort of Phoenix Boris Diaw role, except with more touches.

And slow up on that 'how the playoffs ended' talk - he's only played a small part in the Lakers' woes in the past few playoffs, the larger problems certainly had more of a negative-impact than he did.

 

[Long Live The Kane]

Naw, it's not all talk - it's reality. How can the worst case scenario (of Smith) be a 40% jumpshooting PF, when he hits outside shots at:

Because Josh Smith doesn't take purely nothing but long 2pts...between jumpers and other shots at the rim he takes during the game, he's gonna be at worst somewhere in the mid-low 40s far as fg% goes...right around the same exact percentage from the field Pau is giving us right now

2012/2013 season - 10ft to 3pt = 20% (39 attempts)
2011/2012 season - 10ft to 3pt = 32% (500 attempts)

Compared to Pau:

2012/2013 season - 10ft to 3pt = 41% (45 attempts)
2011/2012 season - 10ft to 3pt = 39% (437 attempts)

That's a 10% swing between the two.

A 10% decline in shooting percentage from midrange from their 3rd option is not gonna cripple the lakers offense

Then you factor in their FT% (they have similar attempts per game) = Smith - 49% over the aforementioned seasons and Gasol - 83% over the aforementioned seasons.

The sample size is extremely small this season and Josh Smith is in the midst of a slump that is extremely low for even his standards...both his midrange and ft numbers will be nowhere near that bad as the season goes on...for his career he's a 67% ft shooter...which isn't good, but isn't horrible

That's a lot of production being left on the table - will he make up the difference in defense and paint points?

The 10% difference from midrange between Pau and Josh (assuming they continue to shoot as many of them per game as they have so far) amounts to

Pau is shooting 5 mid range jumpers per game... 5(.41)= 2.05 made midrange jumpers per game....which adds up to 4.1pts worth of production from his deadly midrange offensive attack

Josh is taking 4.875 mid range jumpers per game, accounting for a 10% decrease...that's 4.875(.31)= 1.511 made jumpers a game...totaling up to 3.022pts per game....

If we're going with the truth is in the numbers argument, that's a whooping 1.078 pts per game difference in their respective midrange games

Then looking at their differences at the rim:

Josh Smith

Rectricted Area: 26-39 (67%)
In the Paint (Non RA): 13-34 (38%)

Pau Gasol

Rectricted Area: 25-40 (63%)
In the Paint (Non RA): 4-22 (18%)

And yes...I am confident, between points from attacking the rim, points in transition, and points saved because Josh Smith is a far better team/help defender, pick and roll defender and defender in transition than Pau...he'd be able to somehow...someway...make up for that 1 point loss from the Pau Gasol midrange game of devastation ...it's the rest of the shots that he takes and makes that ends up making their fg% similar this year and where he makes up the production

How will that affect the fluidity of the D'Antoni's offense when it's predicated on a 4 that can actually stretch the floor (and not a 4 that think's he can stretch the floor)?
How will that affect games when teams lay off Smith when he's got possession (on the perimeter from PNR/PNP) and they help-defending on other players and blocking off the paint?

How will that affect the morale of the team? How will that affect Kobe's game when he has to take extra x-portions of other players ' workloads and dig the team out of offensive-holes? How will that affect Howard's game when the help-defender is closer to close out on him?

In reality, the lakers are gonna have this problem...and have had this problem all year WITH Pau already regardless....Pau IS NOT a stretch 4...teams have been having Pau's man help off of him and strip Dwight of the ball as soon as he gets it all season...part of the reason he's averaging so many turnovers....pau standing in the high post, threatening that slow ass jumper of his that he only takes if you basically beg him is not stretching the floor...the suns let him get a couple last night, made the adjustment of simply running out to him before decides no one is coming to contest..he swings the ball...and he was a non factor damn near the rest of the game ...to space the floor like D'Antoni likes to in his system, you need a big that can hit the three

In all reality, Josh Smith makes the lakers offense more dynamic...gives them an open court threat that they do not have currently in the starting line up...another roll man or cutter for nash and kobe...and a slasher when he has the ball...essentially the Suns Era Marion role (who was without question the most underrated piece of that SSOL Suns squad) a 10% decrease that amounts to 1 less point scored from the midrange game is not enough to negate what else josh smith brings to the table ESPECIALLY defensively....someone like Bosh who has great mobility defensively and great on switching and hedging pick rolls and a knock down midrange shooter would be ideal, but short of that Josh Smith is up there with the best fits defensively you can imagine...him and dwight once he's completely healthy equal likely the best defensive front court in basketball

There's TOO many questions to make this trade a sensible and projected-profitable trade from the Lakers POV - especially when their window is as small as it is. It's not abstract talk, it's not like he doesn't have that IQ any more. He's still got the majority of that championship-ability, but it's obvious the constant struggle with position placement and the fact he's been shopped around ever since has impacted his play. Hopefully D'Antoni will bring out the best in him and utilize the MANY talents he still has; a sort of Phoenix Boris Diaw role, except with more touches.

There are only two things not sensible about this trade, and neither of them have to do with whether it makes the team better on the floor in the present....one, apparently they waited too long to do it...pau's trade level has fallen too low, and ATL flat out won't make it now...at least not without the help of a third team...or they flat out want to resign josh...whatever, they may not want to make it happen....and secondly assuming you could get ATL to push the button, acquiring josh smith who's in the last year of his deal opens up the question of what to do with him in the summer...resigning him kills the 2014 plan the lakers front office seems to have in place...me personally, I'd lean towards fukk all that...move pau and try to go all in this season...if they win, fukk it...resign him

But sensible in the context of actually on the court? shiiiiit....I would've done it this summer with Mike Brown coaching, but I understand people who think Pau fits better in a more methodical slow down structured offense like the princeton or the triangle had Phil came back....but once they made the decision to bring in D'Antoni, talking about he wants to make showtime 2.0 and run an uptempo system that in it's best incarnation didn't even have ONE true center...but expects to do it now with TWO...you mean to tell me that with this team's two biggest weaknesses being a lack of athleticism, transition and pick and roll defense, depth and 3pt shooting...and with D'Antoni wanting to an uptempo offense with one of the slower front courts in the league....you have a hypothetical trade for one of the most athletic and defensively talented 4s in the game and a 3pt specialist in Korver and it's not "sensible" because of the prospect of Dantoni trying to turn a 33 year old Pau Gasol into a updated version of a 23 year old Boris fukking Diaw . .... come on, give me Josh Smith....when the playoffs come around it's more sensible to have Pau defending westbrook in pick and roll situations or guarding lebron and trying to close out on Battier corner 3s..things he's among the worst in the league at...instead of Josh Smith, arguably the best in the at those things...because that missing one point of midrange production would destroy the very fabric of the team?

And slow up on that 'how the playoffs ended' talk - he's only played a small part in the Lakers' woes in the past few playoffs, the larger problems certainly had more of a negative-impact than he did.

Family, Pau has been absolutely terrible the last two playoffs...don't even have to go into the end result and assigning blame and all that...cause even if the lakers had somehow went on to win despite Pau giving them jack shyt, I'd be saying the same thing....for his part, he was garbage...you can't get his actual value out of him as a 4 offensively, and defensively he kills you...right now, at this very moment Pau is giving this team considerably less value than Odom was during the last 2 championships (slightly more on offense, but decidedly less on defense)...but making 19million dollars.....truth be told, that's the biggest flaw in this current laker team...swapping pau out for smith gives them a way to get more return on that money

 

[Romey Rome]

go to the espn trade machine heres a bunch of scenarios we can try.. i did iggy and gali for pau and artest n it worked. i think we should be trynna make our bench with better shooters and defenders instead of trading all our started. if anybody we should trade artest for afflalo

 

[Lakerman0834]

throw in Ivan Johnson u got a deal

 

[L&HH]

Did you think that Gasol for Kwame Trade was gonna happen? dont underestimate the stupidity of some GMs when dealing with the Lakers.

Have you seen memphis lately? Trade didn't turn out to be so bad and now top to bottom they may have one of the best starting 5s in the L.

 

[kingofnyc]

Cause he'd be there best player by a lot?

it would put them over the cap
and its no way they're willing to pay luxury tax

eps. for a team that still wouldnt be able to make da playoffs

 

[GreatestLaker]

Have you seen memphis lately? Trade didn't turn out to be so bad and now top to bottom they may have one of the best starting 5s in the L.

They keep forgetting that Marc Gasol was part of the trade and they used Kwame's expiring contract to get Randolf.

 

[strawburry]

Pau/Blake for Calderon/Bargnani.

plus some picks

 

[DStyles]

Goes to show that Kobe will never be in the same class as that nikka from Brooklyn that played in the Bulls.

And the King is on the rinse

King James will win not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, not seven, not eight

King James gonna need an extra hand when it's all said and done for them rings

Josh Smith to Brooklyn though

 

[GreatestLaker]

Goes to show that Kobe will never be in the same class as that nikka from Brooklyn that played in the Bulls.

And the King is on the rinse

King James will win not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, not seven, not eight

King James gonna need an extra hand when it's all said and done for them rings

Josh Smith to Brooklyn though

Jordan is from North Carolina and that's where he reps.

 

[CrimsonTider]

Kobe is a leech and a fakkit

 

[Loose]

Not even sure LA should attempt that trade anyway, cuz I don't think Josh Smith a better fit for LA.

Don't get me wrong, I like Smith, and at this point, he's a much better player than Gasol. But...

1) You can't make Josh Smith grow. He's like 6'7 in socks. Gasol is a 7th footer. Not many teams can match the Lakers backcourt in terms of size and skill.

2) Josh Smith can often be a low basketball IQ knucklehead and display an array of antics, bad body language and pouting. Not exactly what you want around Dwight or just in general.

3) Also, can you get Josh to understand he needs to stop popping a thousand jumpers and that on that team he's got to be a 12/10 guy?

He's a guy that wants and almost needs a decent role in the offense or he's likely to become moody, yet in general he is often very inefficient and can really fu*k up an offense.

You don't get that problem with Gasol.

Pau Gasol is no longer a stretch 4 , he is a center who is playing out of position he has to be traded sooner or later.

 

[DStyles]

Jordan is from North Carolina and that's where he reps.

Who said I was talking about him whose name should not be spoken in my house due to licensing issues (video game jab)

John Salley da Bo$$