Ray Daniels: Pusha T is overrated and underachieved compared to who he was next to

[No Hook]

Breh, look at the track record:

2Chainz- "Feds Watching" produced by Pharrell was successful. He's had co-productions from Kanye that were successful

Kid Cudi

Big Sean

And even with The Clipse, they were gold with two huge singles and another that got heavy rotation on MTV. This is even with them being on a Justin Timberlake single.

Feds watching was 2Chainz first single off of BOATS 2. Kid Cudi and Big Sean weren't street artist

None of Pusha's first single's were mainstream off of any album he has dropped. He always had street singles first

Don't you think someone that's trying to reach a mainstream audience would drop a mainstream first single off of their album?

 

[The Connoisseurs]

Pusha T only doubled T.I.'s numbers, which is neither here or there because even with those numbers Pusha only has ONE plaque as a solo artist. And this was never about mumbers. People run with this narrative that Pusha wasn't mainstream because of his content. OK, then explain how T.I., Jeezy, and Rick Ross were successful selling coke raps WITHOUT a super producer helming their albums.

Pusha didn't have Chris Brown and Dream features in 2023. He had them a decade ago back when a Chris Brown and Dream feature was still a thing.

He doubled

The “Shaq and Kobe”album Ross has
And he doubled the “I might forgive but I don’t forget “ album jeezy had .


Ti and especiialy Jeezy is the trap era /Atlanta sound same sound Ross was jocking here and there. Push is still standing coming out with quality he’s not chasing trends.

A dream and Chris brown feature was weak 10 years ago anyways .. by that time The Weeknd was bubbling up making his own wave.

 

[Da Bull Ace]

This whole dumbing down to make a hit is a tired and weak argument. For one, nothing about Pusha is that complex to where he would have to dumb down. Two, he had Kanye AND Pharrell especially Pharrell, who often creates hooks to whatever he has a hand in.

Nobody's saying Pusha T had to go full on mainstream or even expected him to. That doesn't excuse the faft that he had commercial attempts, was featured on big hits, signed to Kanye's label, and had albums helmed by Kanye, Pharrell, and more recently BOTH.

Cmon fam we all know it sound different when a lyricist is tryna chase a hit vs when they just making genuine music. Changing your artistic direction just to chase a hit would be dumbing down

And all that dont mean nothing. If you wanna say he underperformed in terms of making hits then sure but he still had a very successful career especially quality wise. He literally has one of the most acclaimed discographies of his peers what more can you really ask for

 

[Left.A1]

TBH …No body gives 2 fukks about “Ray Daniel’s” life let alone his opinion

 

[JustCKing]

Cmon fam we all know it sound different when a lyricist is tryna chase a hit vs when they just making genuine music. Changing your artistic direction just to chase a hit would be dumbing down

And all that dont mean nothing. If you wanna say he underperformed in terms of making hits then sure but he still had a very successful career especially quality wise. He literally has one of the most acclaimed discographies of his peers what more can you really ask for

There are lyricists who didn't dumb down to chase a hit. The only MC's that don't truly understand how to make a song. MC's that aren't capable of doing that shouldn't be MC's in the first place. Rakim sacrificed nothing to create "Paid In Full", "Eric B Is President", or "Microphone Fiend". Classic lyrical rap records that you could actually dance to. Mos Def had "Ms. Fat Booty" and that changed nothing about his artistry. LL Cool J has a slew of commercial songs where he didn't have to change who he was artistically. Nas didn't dummy down to create "If I Ruled The World" and when he had GOAT producers at his disposal, the results were Illmatic. When he worked with super-producers, this resulted in a classic in It Was Written. People panned songs like "You Owe Me", but it was not only a hit for him, he can still perform this song to this day to great reception from the crowd.

Pusha T models himself after Biggie, but Biggie had mainstream joints where he didn't sacrifice what made him Biggie. Biggie dropped "One More Chance" remix and "Who Shot Ya" without blinking.

Pusha T underperformed across the board. No other artist with his acclaim and standing would ever get away with having Kanye and Pharrell at their disposal and someone saying they had a very successful career. It would be like Game's The Documentary flopping and people saying he had a very successful career. Breh, had an all-star lineup of producers, GOAT Hip Hop producers at that, was signed to Dre, had the G-Unit stamp. Documentary was massive. And if we're talking established artists, look at what Busta did with Big Bang. "Touch It" was huge.

 

[Family Lives Matter]

I've read through the thread and I still don't know who the fukk ray Daniels is or why I should value his opinion

 

[Busby]

This is just gonna give Pusha more energy with his Gangsta Grillz project. He gonna hurt ALOT of people’s feelings..

 

[Nigerianwonder]

This whole dumbing down to make a hit is a tired and weak argument. For one, nothing about Pusha is that complex to where he would have to dumb down. Two, he had Kanye AND Pharrell especially Pharrell, who often creates hooks to whatever he has a hand in.

Nobody's saying Pusha T had to go full on mainstream or even expected him to. That doesn't excuse the faft that he had commercial attempts, was featured on big hits, signed to Kanye's label, and had albums helmed by Kanye, Pharrell, and more recently BOTH.

You're contradicting yourself just like Ray daniels. On one hand you admit Kanye and pharrell were talented enough that they could have easily made a pop or big mainstream hit song for pusha anytime they wanted. What your not acknowledging is that both of them chose NOT to do so and never forced him to do those type of records. So obviously they didnt sign him for those reasons. Pusha was just a dope MC. its not that deep.

 

[JustCKing]

You're contradicting yourself just like Ray daniels. On one hand you admit Kanye and pharrell were talented enough that they could have easily made a pop or big mainstream hit song for pusha anytime they wanted. What your not acknowledging is that both of them chose NOT to do so and never forced him to do those type of records. So obviously they didnt sign him for those reasons. Pusha was just a dope MC. its not that deep.

It still didn't stop him for making these songs with other producers. This exisst:




^^^ Kanye has additional production on this and it was a single

 

[BigMan]

Drake lost

Just accept it

 

[Nigerianwonder]

It still didn't stop him for making these songs with other producers. This exisst:




^^^ Kanye has additional production on this and it was a single

Pusha is still in his pocket spittin on that record. He has been featured on pop records too. What I'm saying is never switched his style regardless of the records he is on really. He still talking that coke raps and punchlines regardless. That's just what he does.

 

[JustCKing]

Pusha is still in his pocket spittin on that record. He has been featured on pop records too. What I'm saying is never switched his style regardless of the records he is on really. He still talking that coke raps and punchlines regardless. That's just what he does.

Who says he wasn't spittin? That doesn't stop it from being a mainstream attempt.

And what's with this having to switch styles for mass appeal? Coke rappers have made mainstream songs with dope boy content before.

 

[Street Knowledge]

You're contradicting yourself just like Ray daniels. On one hand you admit Kanye and pharrell were talented enough that they could have easily made a pop or big mainstream hit song for pusha anytime they wanted. What you’re not acknowledging is that both of them chose NOT to do so and never forced him to do those type of records. So obviously they didnt sign him for those reasons. Pusha was just a dope MC. its not that deep.

So when they made this they wasn’t tryna get on the radio

 

[Nigerianwonder]

So when they made this they wasn’t tryna get on the radio

Who says he wasn't spittin? That doesn't stop it from being a mainstream attempt.

And what's with this having to switch styles for mass appeal? Coke rappers have made mainstream songs with dope boy content before.

Pusha WAS mainstream. That's not in debate. The argument was that he somehow underachieved cause he wasn't pop or mainstream enough to Ray daniels liking. My point is he never tried to be the biggest mainstream artist and pharrel and kayne never pressured him to be either. He just did him and was consistent over the years. Pusha had the respect of his peers as an elite MC (Including jay, pharell and kayne and more) and core following of fans that still rock with him. How big was pusha supposed to be really?

Memphis bleek was next to kayne and jay too.. did bleek underachieve since he never was as big as kanye or Jay? Its such a dumb argument.

 

[ADP]

"couldve been Hov level... "