Random NBA Observations 2015 - 2016

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

On the belief of what exactly?

Because it seems to me you have a warped view of this comparison by working on a shaky foundation. First of all you claimed "There's no way Kyrie who's injured half the time is better than Lowry.", when Kyrie has actually played more minutes than Lowry since 2011/2012 (Kyrie's rookie season). You then said Kyrie has been a "perennial loser", as if Lowry hasn't played with better offensive players, better defensive players and more overall talent. I'll reiterate - put Lowry on those Cleveland squads from 2011/2012-2014/2015, and not only wouldn't they perform better but Lowry's efficiency would be worse than it currently is, as he'd have a heavier workload with more defensive attention.

And to add onto this @<<TheStandard>> - his WARP, RPM, PER, WS, BPM and just about every other metric that paints Lowry in a better light would be worse than it currently reads, because he would've played on teams with worse coaches, less talent/ability, less chemistry, heavier workload/more defensive attention as a player [ad nauseum] in a dysfunctional environment.

 

[IGSaint12]

That's what they claim, but it doesn't. For the sake of saving myself time -

Just What The Hell Is Real Plus-Minus, ESPN's New NBA Stat?

Jae Crowder and the problem with ESPN's "NBA Real Plus-Minus" (example of team and role context)

Thx, will read later.

 

[<<TheStandard>>]

And to add onto this @<<TheStandard>> - his WARP, RPM, PER, WS, BPM and just about every other metric that paints Lowry in a better light would be worse than it currently reads, because he would've played on teams with worse coaches, less talent/ability, less chemistry, heavier workload/more defensive attention as a player [ad nauseum] in a dysfunctional environment.

Point taken about RPM's issues. I remember seeing something about this a while back on twitter but it wasn't explained well.

Just at a glance, the aforementioned player pairing problems—multicollinearity issues, to be specific—do seem to affect the ratings. Take Nick Collison as an example. He's sixth overall in RPM, which could lead you to believe that he is a secret cog in the Thunder machine. And yes, Nick Collison is great for what he is, but sliding in ahead of Steph Curry and Tim Duncan does raise a few questions. Just hazarding a guess, could Perk and his literally-worst-in-the-NBA -6.19 Offensive RPM (-3.19 overall) have anything to do with that? This type of analysis expressly tries to isolate a player from his context, but in extreme cases like this, things can get messy. One surmises that Collison often replacing the single most disastrous offensive player in the known cosmos has some kind of effect of his rating, which is the sort of thing that would show up the limitations of this sort of analysis. Then again, J Crossover is currently backing up Willie Green.

Less Talent is one thing but Chemistry is another thing. I see Lowry as a better pure PG than Kyrie where as Kyrie is just a better pure scorer. I think that changes a lot in terms of how the chemistry of a team would work and I don't think that would be as much as a negative on Lowry as you say it is. Dwane Cassey isn't anything to write home about in terms of better coaching lol. Kyle has been in his fair share of dysfunctional environments given his notorious attitude, everything in Memphis with Hollins and Conley and with Houston with McHale and Dragic.

It's tough to know how things would play out if they switched teams.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Point taken about RPM's issues. I remember seeing something about this a while back on twitter but it wasn't explained well.

I just posted the link above on this.

Less Talent is one thing but Chemistry is another thing. I see Lowry as a better pure PG than Kyrie where as Kyrie is just a better pure scorer.

Now we're getting somewhere. You don't think he's a better player, just that he's better at playing an out-dated, philistinic, distorted take on how you think the position should be played. And that's fine, if you think he's more of a traditional PG, but that doesn't mean he has more impact on the court/the better player.

I think that changes a lot in terms of how the chemistry of a team would work and I don't think that would be as much as a negative on Lowry as you say it is.

I'm not stating the degree in which it would be worse by, just that his metrics would read worse than they currently do as he'd be on a team with worse chemistry, talent/ability, heavier workload etc etc (going from the 2013/2014 Raptors to the 2013/2014 Cavaliers). He'd go from playing with DeRozan, Val, Ross and Johnson to playing with Waiters, Thompson, Jack and Varejao.

Dwane Cassey isn't anything to write home about in terms of better coaching lol.

He is when we're comparing him to Byron Scott -

2011 win/loss record - 19-63
2012 win/loss record - 21-45
2013 win/loss record - 24-58
2014 win/loss record - 33-49 (Mike Brown)
2015 win/loss record - 21-61

Lowry had the benefit of playing with a competent coach that has been in Toronto for four seasons (building a foundation/stronger culture and familiarity).

Kyle has been in his fair share of dysfunctional environments given his notorious attitude, everything in Memphis with Hollins and Conley and with Houston with McHale and Dragic.

And yet those were better situations than what Kyrie has had to deal with for the first three seasons of his career.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

It's tough to know how things would play out if they switched teams.

Absolutely, but with all the evidence given to us and common sense (metrics favor players on better teams with more suited roles catered to their skillset) we can make an approximation.

 

[VegetasHairline]

Kyle Lowry > Kyrie Irving

fukk your advanced stats and metrics as well.

This ain't baseball. I don't care if they're the "in thing" now.

Defense matters as well.

On another note:
Only once has Kyrie even finished a season with 6 assists....Lowry has finished with more assists per game every season he and Irving have been in the league.

I don't care how good of a scorer Kyrie is. There's more to basketball than just putting the ball in the basket.
Dude can't even average 6 assists playing with Kevin Love and LeBron James.

 

[TrillaMonsoon]

So in the first game, Young Sabo almost put up a triple double in 20 minutes, then Kyle Lowry goes for 40 in 28 minutes last night

Be a PG against the Wolves, brehs

 

[Miggs]

Kyle Lowry is going to have his best year yet,you can clearly see that...Hes in the best shape of his career and hes faster and moving differently especially at the rim...That being said the stench of last years playoffs is still fresh in my head...

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Kyle Lowry > Kyrie Irving

fukk your advanced stats and metrics as well.

This ain't baseball. I don't care if they're the "in thing" now.

You do realize the person that's posting the "advanced stats/metrics" is the one saying that Lowry is better than Irving, right?

Defense matters as well.

Really, does it? Oh shyt, I never took that into account. Hold on while I go back to the drawing board.

On another note:
Only once has Kyrie even finished a season with 6 assists....Lowry has finished with more assists per game every season he and Irving have been in the league.

You're speaking as if there's some great basketball injustice that Kyrie has committed, and Lowry is the one upholding the law - when he only averages between 1-2 more assists per game. I can use arbitrary standards for assists too - Lowry has only had one season averaging seven assists.

I don't care how good of a scorer Kyrie is. There's more to basketball than just putting the ball in the basket.

When are yall going to stop saying this nonsense?

Dude can't even average 6 assists playing with Kevin Love and LeBron James.

Please don't tell me you're serious.

 

[H.J.Duck]

So in the first game, Young Sabo almost put up a triple double in 20 minutes, then Kyle Lowry goes for 40 in 28 minutes last night

Be a PG against the Wolves, brehs

interestingly enough, one thing in common in both games was that their REAL starting pg who according to some isn't good enough to be in the league hasn't played at all, but these new pg's who are supposed to somehow 'replace' him have...

 

[trick]

 

[Lootpack]

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

Didn't know people held a 2nd tier pg like Kyle Lowry is such high regard

Is he even better than Goran Dragic?

 

[Miggs]

Didn't know people held a 2nd tier pg like Kyle Lowry is such high regard

Is he even better than Goran Dragic?

When was the last time Dragic started an ASG ?

 

[I.V.]

Larry Sanders has a drug problem AND is allegedly bordering on bipolar. I wouldn't be signing him unless you're been assured that he's cleaned up and on some kind of regimen.