Lowry has NEVER had this type of impact in his career.
Random NBA Observations 2015 - 2016
- Thread starter Big Jo
- Start date
Lowry has NEVER had this type of impact in his career.
Probably Dallas. The Lakers already have one weedhead so he probably won't end up there.
<<TheStandard>>
I Am A God
I have league pass with like 6 TVs. I've seen nearly every NBA/NFL game of the last 5 seasons. (NBA-Last 2)
Lowry wasn't the number 1 option the last 2 years? He was the clear leader of the team....especially when Derozan got hurt. What games were you watching? He was by far the number 1 option.
I'm not Metric Stabbing.....Lowry has had a higher WAR (wins over replacement), PER (player efficiency rating) and Real Plus Minus than Kyrie his entire career. You can look this up for yourself. (yes there's metrics that have Kyrie slightly better in WAR/RPM last season....from the time Lowry got hurt....but Lowry had to do more for his team and didn't play with Lebron James)
Kyrie has been the better scorer but Lowry has been better defensively.
<<TheStandard>>
I Am A God
I've acknowledged that Kyrie is the better scorer........In terms of overall I believe Lowry's been better. Dropping a link to a 55 point game which I saw (because I bet on it....Cleveland -2.5) doesn't negate the point I'm arguing.
Boxscore - Portland Trail Blazers vs. Cleveland Cavaliers - 01-28-2015
If you only base impact on scoring then maybe we don't need to talk basketball. There's multiple aspects of the game.
Kyrie is better bro, he's even been better in their h2h matchups
Kyrie Irving vs. Kyle Lowry | Basketball-Reference.com
Multiple aspects, he shooting 33% vs Kyrie's defense
<<TheStandard>>
I Am A God
Kyrie is better bro, he's even been better in their h2h matchups
Kyrie Irving vs. Kyle Lowry | Basketball-Reference.com
I'll concede on the head to head.....you may have gotten me there.
I think he'll be better going forward but to me the last 1.5 seasons (I'll take out everything after Christmas) I've always felt Lowry was better than him. I don't think what Kyle does always shows up in the stat sheet (I generally just like his game as a PG) and Kyrie's defense really hurts him so much to me
I'll admit I'm very biased. I'm from Philly, watched Lowry come up in high school at Cardinal Dougherty and was a big fan of that Nova team and never thought he'd be even close to what he's been the last few years. I remember him along with Maurice Rice (Strawberry Mansion HS....broke Wilt's public league scoring record.....ended up at GW for college for a few years) being major when I was in high school. Was able to catch their games from time to time.
Respected NBA gambler agrees with me
Kyrie
FiveThirtyEight's CARMELO NBA Projections
Kyle
FiveThirtyEight's CARMELO NBA Projections
Notice if you scroll down you see the negative impact of Kyrie's D
Lowry orchestrates/runs the offense, but DeRozan has been the #1 option for the last two seasons. I don't see how this is even debatable?
You're metric stabbing without providing proper CONTEXT. All those metrics you mentioned (especially WARP and RPM) are influenced by the players around them.
Are you taking into account the level of talent of their respective squads over the last four seasons?
Are you taking into account the difference in offensive production of their respective squads over the last four seasons?
Are you taking into account the difference in defensive production of their respective squads over the last four seasons?
Are you taking into account Kyrie has had a heavier workload, more defensive attention with less offensive help?
Not to mention Lowry hasn't had a higher PER than Kyrie over his career:
Lowry orchestrates/runs the offense, but DeRozan has been the #1 option for the last two seasons. I don't see how this is even debatable?
You're metric stabbing without providing proper CONTEXT. All those metrics you mentioned (especially WARP and RPM) are influenced by the players around them.
Are you taking into account the level of talent of their respective squads over the last four seasons?
Are you taking into account the difference in offensive production of their respective squads over the last four seasons?
Are you taking into account the difference in defensive production of their respective squads over the last four seasons?
Are you taking into account Kyrie has had a heavier workload, more defensive attention with less offensive help?
Not to mention Lowry hasn't had a higher PER than Kyrie over his career:
I thought RPM was used to isolate a player's impact to a team regardless of the teammates around him?
<<TheStandard>>
I Am A God
@Gil Scott-Heroin
The problem with PER (which is the only metric you used) is that largely measures offensive performance.....doesn't really account for defensive ones. (Player efficiency rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Here are some RPM stats & WAR from the past 2 seasons. I try to take a collection of all 3 plus what I see with my eyes.
No sense in us arguing this anymore. I concede. You made great points and I respect them......but I just think Lowry has been better the last few years. Going forward I'd want Kyrie. That's just me.
The problem with PER (which is the only metric you used) is that largely measures offensive performance.....doesn't really account for defensive ones. (Player efficiency rating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
Here are some RPM stats & WAR from the past 2 seasons. I try to take a collection of all 3 plus what I see with my eyes.
No sense in us arguing this anymore. I concede. You made great points and I respect them......but I just think Lowry has been better the last few years. Going forward I'd want Kyrie. That's just me.
On the belief of what exactly?
Because it seems to me you have a warped view of this comparison by working on a shaky foundation. First of all you claimed "There's no way Kyrie who's injured half the time is better than Lowry.", when Kyrie has actually played more minutes than Lowry since 2011/2012 (Kyrie's rookie season). You then said Kyrie has been a "perennial loser", as if Lowry hasn't played with better offensive players, better defensive players and more overall talent. I'll reiterate - put Lowry on those Cleveland squads from 2011/2012-2014/2015, and not only wouldn't they perform better but Lowry's efficiency would be worse than it currently is, as he'd have a heavier workload with more defensive attention.
Your opinion can't be trusted, because i) you can't provide proper context with your stats ii) only bringing up flawed metrics which are heavily reliant upon your teammates/ability of your squad ii) lying about stats/metrics.
It actually does, because your point is flimsy and transparent. That game is a general picture of Kyrie's ability/peak of impact - ability and impact that Lowry hasn't shown.
Don't shoot 'casual fan' arrows at me. I'm basing it on impact. Kyrie scores more points on better efficiency with a heavier workload and more defensive attention. All the other margins that Lowry might have on him don't add up to him having more impact on the game.
Last edited:
<<TheStandard>>
I Am A God
Need I remind you, I only brought up PER because -
I was wrong about that. (hence me dapping you and also acknowledging that I like to look at the total picture of all three and what my eyes tell me)
That's what they claim, but it doesn't. For the sake of saving myself time -
Just What The Hell Is Real Plus-Minus, ESPN's New NBA Stat?
Jae Crowder and the problem with ESPN's "NBA Real Plus-Minus" (example of team and role context)
