Essential Random Gym Thoughts Revisited...

[MMS]

i had heard that cortisol is like a catalyst that can work either to break down tissue or build it

i forget what it was, but i think its cortisol with high insulin = growth?

not sure

 

[Serious]

i had heard that cortisol is like a catalyst that can work either to break down tissue or build it

i forget what it was, but i think its cortisol with high insulin = growth?

not sure

Idk but all the side effects I just read up on sound, no bueno.

I'd hit up @Kool G Trap for more info....

 

[MMS]

Idk but all the side effects I just read up on sound, no bueno.

I'd hit up @Kool G Trap for more info....

im not talking about supplementing it, im talking about manipulating your natural levels(IE like IF)

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

@MMSex @Serious

This is the study: Associations of exercise-induced hormone profiles and gains in strength and hypertrophy in a large cohort after weight training - Springer
Interesting to note that GH and Cortisol were associated with increase in type 2 fibers only. These guys rely on glycogen and creatine phosphate to eat. Quick twitch.

I'm sure you read this article by berkhan on cortisol; its not bad: Why Does Breakfast Make Me Hungry? (Major Update July 16th) | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health

Nice little writeup on the hormone with a focus on circadian rhythms which are incredibly relevant to what effects cortisol has on your physiology (sleep is a big one here)

I think cortisol is mainly bad in regard to long term exposure or expression. We can see this in the form of work based stress, animals that are being affected by urban noise, etc. And when you get older, it plays a role in sarcopenia as test declines, along with other things. Obviously high high levels of cortisol can cause proteolysis. Cortisol interactions are complex. People demonise it a lot but its not that simple. Cortisol is at its core just something that your body uses as a stress response. It is not meant to hurt you but to help you adapt to physical or mental/emotional stress. It was certainly selected for by the environment for a number of survival reasons:

Log In - ProQuest


It is part of why you are able to push through hard exercises or finish out a set/run/round of sparring. I like to think of it as the lipid/long term equivalent of adrenaline in a lot of ways in that regard. You need to to quick mobilize your sugar stores, glycogen. But in regard to metabolism its not simple and the picture isnt fleshed out by science because of all the functions it has in the body. For example there have been attempts to correlate decreased muscle metabolism and cortisol with mediocre results:

Effects of Cortisol on Amino Acids in Skeletal Muscle and Plasma

IF you wanted me to take a guess? I would say that it has to do with the possibility that growth/thyroid hormones and lipid androgen hormones seem to have some sort of control over each others expression of receptors:
Trans-activation by thyroid hormone receptors: functional parallels with steroid hormone receptors

Control of growth hormone receptor and insulin-like growth factor-I expression by cortisol in ovine fetal skeletal muscle


A lot of the literature seems to be based on fish () and other animals. Im not trying to get into that because im studying my cock off for a final tomorrow, but as far as the literature goes that would be my first guess. Its hard to draw conclusions from studies like that because cortisol is literally affected by and influences everything from your mental state, diet, sleep patterns, sexual activity, and a whole bunch of other shyt.

Sorry if im not making shyt for sense. Havent slept much recently


I'm also just an undergrad and I aint a molecular/endocrine genius either sohh

 

[MMS]

nah thats a great post

im just trying to make sense of it here as well to take from it what i can

this stuff is right up my alley(im trying to get into advanced drug delivery)

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

nah thats a great post

im just trying to make sense of it here as well to take from it what i can

this stuff is right up my alley(im trying to get into advanced drug delivery)

I left out a lot of stuff re: how the balance of hormones can be as essential to creating a so called "anabolic" environment as much as an excess of one or the other, depression studies correlating GH and cortisol receptor morphology, and a whole bunch of other shyt but the fact of the matter is that its just not understood well by anyone. Most of these papers when they find some inconsistency with results we know to be true with Test and GH (they give gains) just kind of are like "uhhh uhhh complex mechanisms we dont know" which is reasonable.

In fact they shouldnt be surprised that relatively small endogenous increases in this or that dont always predicate results: thats the thing about trying to correlate nutrition, endocrinology, and exercise information: Its all full of contradictory information; some straight up bad science, legitimately badly understood mechanisms, varying interpretations of environment and optimal settings, shyts confusing as hell. and it doesnt receive the same quality of research as something like say, cancer immunology.

Basically people overobsess about creating an anabolic environment in their bodies. But really you know what you have to do mane. Sleep, eat relatively well, and train hard. The more you focus on minutiae the more you end up messing and tweaking some of the shyt you know to be time tested bodybuilder approved. Attempts to gain greater understanding of mechanisms are good, great even, but right now? The general area of interest re: tweaking hormones through diet and exercise routines is totally fukked in terms of research. Just fukked.

 

[MMS]

i feel that, i just like being able to back up my assumptions with pseudoscience

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

As long as you acknowledge that theres a lot of wiggle room for error you can basically think whatever you feel like. A lot of dudes don't fukk/beat off because of post-ejaculatory testosterone drops as long as you dont reach that level of trying to interpret science into iron rock hard training rules you're fine I think.

I realize the irony of an internal martial arts guy talking about pseudoscience btw, but maybe its because i'm used to so much coming from all sorts of directions that I'm pretty okay with being able to compartmentalize what I know is right or correct and what is unsubstantiated or requiring more investigation.

FWIW i have my own engagement in , before finals I was doing stable stance holding practice in the mornings because I was told that it would help me rewire my posture and strength usage and I spent hours on this with no scientific data, but it seems to have worked. Everyone does it, and if you think you dont youre full of shyt. a lot of these PhD Alan Aragon fitness guys try to appear to be 100% objective and scientific in their approaches, and thats nice, but the literature is so wonky that you're relying on a belief system one way or another


At this point: whatever helps people get active is what matters i guess. Im not on that "do you even lift bro" shyt.

 

[MMS]

i tell you what tho

eventually theres gonna be a definitive correlation with certain hormones and muscle growth and fat metabolism

im always looking at animals thinking to myself, they dont lift, yet they are swole :vince: common person would say its genetic which is definitely true but my gut says looking at their lifestyle, the way they go about eating has more of an embedded scientific reasoning. I mean look at "country" strong folks who dont lift yet are swole. Theres something at play that just hasnt been tapped into yet

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

Sure and I believe so as well. I'm also waiting patiently for the day when science makes the connections it needs to to show that perceptions of morphology do not correlate with performance. Like the weak ass jacked looking dude we all know. Or the flabby/undefined/skinny dude who moves explosively as shyt (fedor/joe louis/hearns etc etc).

I think sports training will ultimately incorporate less of the brute methologies used now where they drop a bucket full of exercise on someone's head and instead focus on more on the abstract. Emphasis on development of kinetic chains, CNS utilization, and more refined/specific routines. shyts kind of generalist right now. You gotta be a good runner, lift this much, do all this and that shyt to be a good athlete. But I think ultimately a focus on refining strengths and specificity for each person in terms of diet, life cycle, and training is the holy grail.

 

[wise prophet]

Now to get ready for mon and do my 5 reps of 430 deadlift.

easy. time to

 

[Spliff]

Sure and I believe so as well. I'm also waiting patiently for the day when science makes the connections it needs to to show that perceptions of morphology do not correlate with performance. Like the weak ass jacked looking dude we all know. Or the flabby/undefined/skinny dude who moves explosively as shyt (fedor/joe louis/hearns etc etc).

Isn't this understood though? Neural coding differentiates both examples you gave, among other things.

I think sports training will ultimately incorporate less of the brute methologies used now where they drop a bucket full of exercise on someone's head and instead focus on more on the abstract. Emphasis on development of kinetic chains, CNS utilization, and more refined/specific routines. shyts kind of generalist right now. You gotta be a good runner, lift this much, do all this and that shyt to be a good athlete.

There's loads of specificity training in sports today, but weight and endurance training will always be staples. What else will add lean mass to your frame or increase your endurance faster? The skill activities specialize your foundation. Everything you mentioned from CNS to kinetic advantages is taken into account with these programs.

The general fitness population will always get the general knowledge and training available to them. When you start specifying your training and get coached up, things change. When you climb the ranks and enter the elite conversation, its a different world.

 

[semtex]

this is the one that caught my attention

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

Isn't this understood though? Neural coding differentiates both examples you gave.

I suppose so. I dont know shyt about neural coding though.

There's loads of specificity training in sports today, but weight and endurance training will always be staples. What else will add lean mass to your frame or increase your endurance faster? The skill activities specialize your foundation. Everything you mentioned from CNS to kinetic advantages is taken into account with these programs.

The general fitness population will always get the general knowledge and training available to them. When you start specifying your training and get coached up, things change. When you climb the ranks and enter the elite conversation, its a different world.

This is probably true but i know dikk all about how training regimens are adjusted for neural specificity at higher levels. I'd be interested in some examples/anecdotes though. My experience with that is in MMA/boxing training which is in a weird state with modern and oldschool training

 

[HoustonHeat]

IF you wanted me to take a guess? I would say that it has to do with the possibility that growth/thyroid hormones and lipid androgen hormones seem to have some sort of control over each others expression of receptors:

I'm also just an undergrad and I aint a molecular/endocrine genius either sohh

I ain't got no thyroid hormones
I have to take synthetics everyday, but I wonder how much my muscle growth or fat loss is compromised from taking synthetics (T3 and T4) instead of producing my own. Endocrinologist says it shouldn't make a difference, but she has been the most non-helpful person through out this process.

Meatheads always try to buy my T3 from me before a show tho