Race relations, slavery and discrimination in Saharan and Sahelian West-Africa

[B-Rock Odrama]

Haratine are not originally Moors, they are slave descendants mostly bought or raided from the area of Mali or Senegal with indigenous northern mauritanians and descendents of merchants, students who stayed in beidane territory.

You do know that the Moors were conqueered/enslaved by invading Roman and arab armies and they were well known for their dark black complextion right? The oringinal Moors were closer to Haratines than the Roman, arab, and French mxied Biedine mutts whom are now occupy Mauritanai.

 

[Sonni]

-That's pathetic honestly...Like Is said Islam is a far greater slave religon that Christianity...Black Mulims worship "white arabs" like they Allah or Mohommed themselves cause their religion teaches them arabs are god's chosen people and blacks were born to serve them...As soon as those Haratine's abandon that terrorist cult(Islam) the sooner they would be to emancipating themselves wholely.

If Islam is the problem how do you explain the high concentration of powerful black african Islamic empires in western Africa up until french and british colonization.

They held their own against arabs and berbers, conducted business with them which made these countries and many of their individuals, merchants, noblemen and kings rich like Mansa Musa for instance and some had many arab and berber tribes under their authority like Askia Daoud of the Songhay for example. Unlike the berbers they accepted islam but refused arabisation. How is that worshipping Arabs or thinking they were born to serve them.

Arab-berbers are known as cowards were I’m from because in war the arab-berbers technique was hit and run(razzia), pillage and kidnap kids. They were never able to hold territory. Except desertic territory, but that’s because the blacks are traditionally farmers and it wasn’t worth fighting for sand so they left useless dry places to go further south near the river Senegal and Niger for ex. Some Haratines are descendants of small black communities who never left for the south as the Sahara dried up. They ended up getting easily dominated by berbers who managed to domesticate the camel and thus had an advantage over less mobile small black communities.

-Biedines only make up 30% of the country by the law of average you would think the 70% black population would elect more people from their background to address their issues...But I guess they being conditioned by Islam to think only fair skinned arabs are fit to lead.

Your are entitled your opinion and theories but have you ever set foot in Africa ? If you know much about black africans in Africa you would now that they identify with tribe rather than race as you do in America.

So that means people vote for their tribal candidate, marry within their tribe, hire members of their tribe. Haratines or part of arab-berber tribes. Thats why when officially called out on discrimination Mauritania simply says hey we are a majority arab country. 30% beidane and 40% haratine. All part of arab hassaniya speaking Moorish tribes.

Today in Mauritania the arab-berbers hold most of the power because the french chose to hand power over to them (in the colonial administration white and brown arabs and berbers were always higher up the ethnic ladder than blacks)and even then its only since 1978 with the military juntas(arms) that the arabs with support of other arab regimes got the upperhand. Up until the 80’s when nationalist arabs seized power through arms black-africans and beidanes had a similar share of power. To understand a bit what happened after beidanes started fearing the weight of black-africans in government, army and administration read up my post nr #18 . Our military and intellectual elite has been decapitated, we are trying to restructure. Its not easy since our neighbouring countries don't care and the beidane elite has the support of the USA, France, the EU, ...

As for the haratines what do you expect from these mostly illiterate, extremely poor, vulnerable tributaries and fresh outta slavery people to know about democracy(a concept that is new in this part of the world), they vote for their tribal leaders or for who their tribal leaders tell them to vote for as all Mauritanians do and most of them in the Moorish community are beidanes. Its only now people are trying to wake them up, educate them to fight for their rights. But it wont be an easy thing since executive, legislative and judicial powers(through a military coup) are in the hands of a few beidane and a few corrupt haratine and black-africans. Thats why we need to first make people aware they have to keep their dignity, educate their children and fight the last pockets of slavery.

You do know that the Moors were conqueered/enslaved by invading Roman and arab armies and they were well known for their dark black complextion right? The oringinal Moors were closer to Haratines than the Roman, arab, and French mxied Biedine mutts whom are now occupy Mauritanai.

This is about the origins of the Moors part I will answer you in the thread about that subject.

 

[Imyremeshaw]

Interesting thread, Sonni Im guessing your Maurentania? I'm from Morocco, and I have had to chance to visit Maurennania/Western Sahara multiple times. I've read a little of the thread and get a sense from you that Arab-Berber are the same standing in Maurentania, Im tamajaq speaker I didn't really see us getting treated as well as the Bedani, (although better than West Africans). What I know is if you come from Yemeni forefather it really determined your high standing in society just like Morocco, would you agree with my sentiments.

 

[Sonni]

Interesting thread, Sonni Im guessing your Maurentania? I'm from Morocco, and I have had to chance to visit Maurennania/Western Sahara multiple times.

Choukrane. Yes, I am half mauritanian. I’ve visited Morocco plenty of times and I have many many morocccan friends. I’ve had a Moroccan girlfriend, etc …
I don’t mean to be rude but where in Morocco are you from ? I have never heard a Moroccan refer to ”Western Sahara” as just “Western Sahara”. They call it “Moroccan Sahara”, its only Sahrawi Independentists or foreigners that say Western Sahara. The easiest way to get a Moroccan real angry is to tell him Morocco is colonizing Western Sahara.

I've read a little of the thread and get a sense from you that Arab-Berber are the same standing in Maurentania, Im tamajaq speaker

There are bidanis in Western Sahara too, they call themselves Sahrawis. As a matter of fact the borders between Mauritania and Western Sahara (like most African borders drawn by europeans)make no sense at all. And Morocco claimed parts of Algeria, parts of Mali and the whole of Mauritania until 1969 !!

Im tamajaq speaker

Again I have never heard a Moroccan call himself a tamajaq speaker. Tamajaq resembles tamacheq of Tuaregs but there are no Tuaregs in Morocco.
Do you mean tamazight ?

I didn't really see us getting treated as well as the Bedani, (although better than West Africans).
What I know is if you come from Yemeni forefather it really determined your high standing in society just like Morocco, would you agree with my sentiments.

Moroccan Beidanes from undisputed Saharan territory like Guelmim, Tan-Tan, Assa despise berbers despite the majority of them having Sanhaja(berber) blood. *
The bidane society whether Sahrawi or Mauritanian is stratified in classes similarly as Sahelian black societies.
At the top you have the Hassan who are warriors mostly of Yemeni origin, they are the ones who arabised the berbers and gave their name to the language spoken in the region Hassan-iya
then you have the Zwaya or Tolba whom are arabised berbers specialised in religious knowledge
then you have the znaga whom are just regular berbers from vanquished tribes
and the haratines black tributaries or black servants of slave origin

These categories are not rigid, you can pass from one to another in generations primarly by alliances but also through bravery in war, accumulation of wealth and of course there has been plenty of intermarriage. But still this is a small society so when need be, its easy for people to find out, who exactly you are, where you from and what is your status. Same for Mauritania.


If you are Moroccan but not beidane and you(or your family in Morocco) have lived with beidanes you can only be chleuh from undisputed southernmost Morocco where Sahrawi bidhanis live together with Chleuh. Am I right ?





*Bidanis of Western Sahara for Independentists or Moroccan Sahara for loyalists claim pure arabness and Independentists say they refuse to be under chlouha authority.
By chlouha they mean any berber, any non Sahrawi Moroccan. Change chlouha for lekwar(black Africans in hassaniya)and they think like the bidanis in Mauritania. Except in Mauritania the blacks are indigenous in the South and a huge chunk of the total population. In Western Sahara the bidanis are the native people. There are bidanis in Mali and in Algeria too but they are so outnumbered that they keep quiet, even though with recent events in Mali they armed themselves and they are trying to bargain something out of it. In the turmoil of the Mali war some beef erupted between Malian Moors and Malian Tuareg in Mali and the French have clearly sided with the Tuareg.

An example of hate for the Moroccans of hardcore Bidane separatists is during the events of Gdeim Izik about two years ago I think, they killed Moroccan security forces and a guy even pissed on the corpse of a Moroccan policemen or gendarme. All this was filmed. These guys give no fukks, they really feel superior and accept no authority of a non-beidane. I must say there are progressive and true muslim bidanis who really believe in brotherhood between people of the same country or same religion. Even the Bidani president of Mauritania speaks Wolof language, has true black-african friends from back when he was in military academy and has cousins married to black-african women. Same for bidanis in Western Sahara regarding Moroccans. The least you can say is there’s something schizophrenic in bidhani society.

 

[Imyremeshaw]

Choukrane. Yes, I am half mauritanian. I’ve visited Morocco plenty of times and I have many many morocccan friends. I’ve had a Moroccan girlfriend, etc …
I don’t mean to be rude but where in Morocco are you from ? I have never heard a Moroccan refer to ”Western Sahara” as just “Western Sahara”. They call it “Moroccan Sahara”, its only Sahrawi Independentists or foreigners that say Western Sahara. The easiest way to get a Moroccan real angry is to tell him Morocco is colonizing Western Sahara.

Im from Ksar al-Kebir, although my my family is originally from Khemisset. I am Uregu, my father was university professor that pushed Berber(hate this word) independence. Thats why I refer to as Western Sahara, its for tmazight.

There are bidanis in Western Sahara too, they call themselves Sahrawis. As a matter of fact the borders between Mauritania and Western Sahara (like most African borders drawn by europeans)make no sense at all. And Morocco claimed parts of Algeria, parts of Mali and the whole of Mauritania until 1969 !!

I know bidani, I use to think I was.Me and my family were in for a rude awaking when we got to America, we were black in every since of the word.

Again I have never heard a Moroccan call himself a tamajaq speaker. Tamajaq resembles tamacheq of Tuaregs but there are no Tuaregs in Morocco.
Do you mean tamazight ?

Well I grew from about 12 till now in America, so I am very Americanized. Most other tmazight/tamajaq speakers Ive meet are infact Tuaregs, so we relate very well.

Moroccan Beidanes from undisputed Saharan territory like Guelmim, Tan-Tan, Assa despise berbers despite the majority of them having Sanhaja(berber) blood. *
The bidane society whether Sahrawi or Mauritanian is stratified in classes similarly as Sahelian black societies.
At the top you have the Hassan who are warriors mostly of Yemeni origin, they are the ones who arabised the berbers and gave their name to the language spoken in the region Hassan-iya
then you have the Zwaya or Tolba whom are arabised berbers specialised in religious knowledge
then you have the znaga whom are just regular berbers from vanquished tribes
and the haratines black tributaries or black servants of slave origin

These categories are not rigid, you can pass from one to another in generations primarly by alliances but also through bravery in war, accumulation of wealth and of course there has been plenty of intermarriage. But still this is a small society so when need be, its easy for people to find out, who exactly you are, where you from and what is your status. Same for Mauritania.


If you are Moroccan but not beidane and you(or your family in Morocco) have lived with beidanes you can only be chleuh from undisputed southernmost Morocco where Sahrawi bidhanis live together with Chleuh. Am I right ?





*Bidanis of Western Sahara for Independentists or Moroccan Sahara for loyalists claim pure arabness and Independentists say they refuse to be under chlouha authority.
By chlouha they mean any berber, any non Sahrawi Moroccan. Change chlouha for lekwar(black Africans in hassaniya)and they think like the bidanis in Mauritania. Except in Mauritania the blacks are indigenous in the South and a huge chunk of the total population. In Western Sahara the bidanis are the native people. There are bidanis in Mali and in Algeria too but they are so outnumbered that they keep quiet, even though with recent events in Mali they armed themselves and they are trying to bargain something out of it. In the turmoil of the Mali war some beef erupted between Malian Moors and Malian Tuareg in Mali and the French have clearly sided with the Tuareg.

An example of hate for the Moroccans of hardcore Bidane separatists is during the events of Gdeim Izik about two years ago I think, they killed Moroccan security forces and a guy even pissed on the corpse of a Moroccan policemen or gendarme. All this was filmed. These guys give no fukks, they really feel superior and accept no authority of a non-beidane. I must say there are progressive and true muslim bidanis who really believe in brotherhood between people of the same country or same religion. Even the Bidani president of Mauritania speaks Wolof language, has true black-african friends from back when he was in military academy and has cousins married to black-african women. Same for bidanis in Western Sahara regarding Moroccans. The least you can say is there’s something schizophrenic in bidhani society.

As you know most Morrocans are mixed up, I am not chuelh, but I know many chuelhs very nice people. I am not bidane, Im sudani in the American sense of the word. I didnt realize that till I came to America. You know if have an Arab forefather, your arab, so most tmzaight people will claim an Arab forefather just to rise in society. Its really messed up, If only my people could see the world and where they really stand.

 

[thatrapsfan]

Great thread Sonni, very informative. What language do you speak back home and what's your other half?


Random but I was reading this book the other day that touched on the banlieue riots of 2005 in France. It referred to that story of the two kids getting electrocuted that set off the violence and it mentioned the black kid was Mauritanian.

What caught my attention was his name which was Bouna Traore. The Traore last name seems much more common to neighboring countries like Mali and Senegal. I'm assuming he was Fulani or Soninke? Do the people of those groups who also live in neighboring countries identify more closely with each other than with other black Mauritanians?

 

[thatrapsfan]

So the Arabs in Mali are Beidani? I did hear a few speaking on AJA( Al Jazeera Arabic) and their dialect did sound the same as the one I've heard Mauritanians speak. I've heard that they're known to be major drug traffickers in Northern Mali.

Not to derail the thread, but as far as the groups like MUJAO and Ansar Al Sharia, who are they made up of? A variety of ethnic groups in the region or mostly Beidanis?

 

[Sonni]

Im from Ksar al-Kebir, although my my family is originally from Khemisset. I am Uregu, my father was university professor that pushed Berber(hate this word) independence. Thats why I refer to as Western Sahara, its for tmazight.

Berber independence from Morocco ? Or do you mean Berber rights ?
Khemisset is pretty northern. Are you native black berber or are you descendant of slaves ?

I know bidani, I use to think I was.Me and my family were in for a rude awaking when we got to America, we were black in every since of the word.

Nice to meet a black Moroccan. There are a solid minority but they are like invisible. But only white Sahrawis or Mauritanians refer to themselves as bidanis. Regular ''Dakhilis'' don’t even know that word.

Well I grew from about 12 till now in America, so I am very Americanized. Most other tmazight/tamajaq speakers Ive meet are infact Tuaregs, so we relate very well.

I must admit I dont see at all which moroccan Tuaregs you are talking about. There’s some tribes near the desert/algerian borders who dress a bit like Tuaregs and might present themselves as Tuareg for tourists but thats where it ends. The berber tribes of Morocco are the chleuh, the rif and the central atlas mountains imazighen(which you are). 0 Tuareg tribes in Morocco.

As you know most Morrocans are mixed up, I am not chuelh, but I know many chuelhs very nice people.

I dont think most Moroccans are mixed at all. Most are just arabised but there is still millions of pure un-arabised berbers of whom some are bilingual in Morocco. The percentage of pure unmixed berbers in Morocco is higher than in Algeria and much much higher than in Libya and Tunisia.

I am not bidane, Im sudani in the American sense of the word. I didnt realize that till I came to America. You know if have an Arab forefather, your arab, so most tmzaight people will claim an Arab forefather just to rise in society. Its really messed up, If only my people could see the world and where they really stand.

There’s a rennaissance of amazigh cultural and rights movement in Morocco.
As for black moroccans they are too divided to be united. Except in the north a big number tribe got blacks in their midst. The more South-East you go the more blacks. There is black arabs, black berbers, black villagers, ...

 

[Sonni]

Great thread Sonni, very informative. What language do you speak back home and what's your other half?


Random but I was reading this book the other day that touched on the banlieue riots of 2005 in France. It referred to that story of the two kids getting electrocuted that set off the violence and it mentioned the black kid was Mauritanian.

What caught my attention was his name which was Bouna Traore. The Traore last name seems much more common to neighboring countries like Mali and Senegal. I'm assuming he was Fulani or Soninke? Do the people of those groups who also live in neighboring countries identify more closely with each other than with other black Mauritanians?

Thanks bro. Bouna Traore is a Soninke same as my tribe. The name is common in Mauritania but mostly in the southern part. My mom is Soninke of Malian and Senegalese descent. In the Soninke community its recurrent to have mixes of Malian Senegalese and Mauritanian because the colonial borders cut right through our lands.

So the Arabs in Mali are Beidani? I did hear a few speaking on AJA( Al Jazeera Arabic) and their dialect did sound the same as the one I've heard Mauritanians speak. I've heard that they're known to be major drug traffickers in Northern Mali.

Not to derail the thread, but as far as the groups like MUJAO and Ansar Al Sharia, who are they made up of? A variety of ethnic groups in the region or mostly Beidanis?

Yes Arabs in Mali are beidane. They are indeed major drug trafickers. In their defence they dont really have a choice. No jobs, no possibility of agriculture and transsaharan business is dead since the early last century.

Mujao is led by both mauritanian ands malian bidhanis and foot soldiers is mostly black malians and other black west-africans.
Ansar Sharia is mostly malian arab berabiche tribesmen. Only existed since a few months or so.

I salute you because you seem very informed.

 

[thatrapsfan]

Thanks bro. Bouna Traore is a Soninke same as my tribe. The name is common in Mauritania but mostly in the southern part. My mom is Soninke of Malian and Senegalese descent. In the Soninke community its recurrent to have mixes of Malian Senegalese and Mauritanian because the colonial borders cut right through our lands.



Yes Arabs in Mali are beidane. They are indeed major drug trafickers. In their defence they dont really have a choice. No jobs, no possibility of agriculture and transsaharan business is dead since the early last century.

Mujao is led by both mauritanian ands malian bidhanis and foot soldiers is mostly black malians and other black west-africans.
Ansar Sharia is mostly malian arab berabiche tribesmen. Only existed since a few months or so.

I salute you because you seem very informed.

Thanks for the reply, great to have someone from that region posting here in English. Usually the most informed opinions about the region can only be found in French, so many people in English speaking world know very little about it.

I'm personally Somali but I've always been interested in the Sahel(West African portion of it) and have met great people from there.


This is a good English site that aggregates a lot of news from the region Sahel Blog | Covering Politics and Religion in the Sahel and the Horn of Africa

 

[Sonni]

Thanks for the reply, great to have someone from that region posting here in English. Usually the most informed opinions about the region can only be found in French, so many people in English speaking world know very little about it.

I'm personally Somali but I've always been interested in the Sahel(West African portion of it) and have met great people from there.

Yes most of the info is in french and if its in english its by very misinformed westerners. Thats why I feel the need to give the view of a native. Somalis and Sahelians are brothers,there both 100% muslim and lots of similarities in our cultures. I like Somalis because they are so proud and confident in who they are. Sahelians had that too but most lost it. They need to get it back and they’ll be allright.

This is a good English site that aggregates a lot of news from the region Sahel Blog | Covering Politics and Religion in the Sahel and the Horn of Africa

I got that site in my bookmarks

 

[B-Rock Odrama]

If Islam is the problem how do you explain the high concentration of powerful black african Islamic empires in western Africa up until french and british colonization.

They held their own against arabs and berbers, conducted business with them which made these countries and many of their individuals, merchants, noblemen and kings rich like Mansa Musa for instance and some had many arab and berber tribes under their authority like Askia Daoud of the Songhay for example. Unlike the berbers they accepted islam but refused arabisation. How is that worshipping Arabs or thinking they were born to serve them.

Arab-berbers are known as cowards were I’m from because in war the arab-berbers technique was hit and run(razzia), pillage and kidnap kids. They were never able to hold territory. Except desertic territory, but that’s because the blacks are traditionally farmers and it wasn’t worth fighting for sand so they left useless dry places to go further south near the river Senegal and Niger for ex. Some Haratines are descendants of small black communities who never left for the south as the Sahara dried up. They ended up getting easily dominated by berbers who managed to domesticate the camel and thus had an advantage over less mobile small black communities.






Your are entitled your opinion and theories but have you ever set foot in Africa ? If you know much about black africans in Africa you would now that they identify with tribe rather than race as you do in America.

So that means people vote for their tribal candidate, marry within their tribe, hire members of their tribe. Haratines or part of arab-berber tribes. Thats why when officially called out on discrimination Mauritania simply says hey we are a majority arab country. 30% beidane and 40% haratine. All part of arab hassaniya speaking Moorish tribes.

Today in Mauritania the arab-berbers hold most of the power because the french chose to hand power over to them (in the colonial administration white and brown arabs and berbers were always higher up the ethnic ladder than blacks)and even then its only since 1978 with the military juntas(arms) that the arabs with support of other arab regimes got the upperhand. Up until the 80’s when nationalist arabs seized power through arms black-africans and beidanes had a similar share of power. To understand a bit what happened after beidanes started fearing the weight of black-africans in government, army and administration read up my post nr #18 . Our military and intellectual elite has been decapitated, we are trying to restructure. Its not easy since our neighbouring countries don't care and the beidane elite has the support of the USA, France, the EU, ...

As for the haratines what do you expect from these mostly illiterate, extremely poor, vulnerable tributaries and fresh outta slavery people to know about democracy(a concept that is new in this part of the world), they vote for their tribal leaders or for who their tribal leaders tell them to vote for as all Mauritanians do and most of them in the Moorish community are beidanes. Its only now people are trying to wake them up, educate them to fight for their rights. But it wont be an easy thing since executive, legislative and judicial powers(through a military coup) are in the hands of a few beidane and a few corrupt haratine and black-africans. Thats why we need to first make people aware they have to keep their dignity, educate their children and fight the last pockets of slavery.






This is about the origins of the Moors part I will answer you in the thread about that subject.

-Those West Africn kingdoms thrived inspite of Islam not cause of it... even the link you posted earelier stated West African civilizations were established long before the introduction of Islam...Islam was there downfall if anything since it divided Africans by causin Mulim converts to wage ware Islamic wars/jihad on there peers on behalf of their arab masters as well introduciing the inhuman arab slave trade the region...Yemeni arabs Islamist also invaded and destoryed black African civliziations such as Ghana,Songhai,Mali and Moorish empire,

If cowards are easily have enslaved and dominated black African Muslims for centuries what does that say about them?

If tribal arabsist in Mauritania/North Africa were smart enough to put their tribal allegeiances on the backburner to unite under one banner pan arabism black Muaritanians could/shold do the same to look after their own interest...Like I said I think it's more black Mauritanians being condiioned by Islam to feel inferior to arabs is the root of the problem.

-I'm sure he legacy of French colonization strenghten the aleardy existing arab/white power structure in Mauritania but didn't the Yemeni orign Biedines already conquer the Moors and had been the ruling class in Mauritanailong before the French arrived?

I'm not just talking about democracy...Blacks in Mauritania need to stand up for themselves....They are the majority so they fact Beidanes have dominated them so throughly for so long is partially there fault and makes them look weak...I sympathize for the plight of the ederly ,women and children of Haratines but the able bodied male whom like Beidines walk all over them need to man up.

 

[B-Rock Odrama]

I dont think most Moroccans are mixed at all. Most are just arabised but there is still millions of pure un-arabised berbers of whom some are bilingual in Morocco. The percentage of pure unmixed berbers in Morocco is higher than in Algeria and much much higher than in Libya and Tunisia.


, ...

the average Morrocas(and most North Africans for tha matter) ancestry has been highly affected by acenturies of arab and European conquest of North Africa and they will tell you this themselves.

 

[Sonni]

the average Morrocas(and most North Africans for tha matter) ancestry has been highly affected by acenturies of arab and European conquest of North Africa and they will tell you this themselves.

The average Moroccan is and has always been a Berber. There has been invasions of european Romans and later Vandals, Visigoths, etc ... But these small groups were absorbed in berber ethnicities. So if thats what you mean then yeah some moroccan berbers are mixed with euros. I don't see whats special about ethnicities being mixed with neighboring invading or conquered ethnicities.

As for the Arabs there has been a conquest of Arabs but they have not been able to erase the berber ethnicities. They managed to arabise a lot of Moroccans but there’s still plenty of pure berber ethnicities in Morocco. Thing is for centuries the rulers of Moroccan dynasties where arabs and arbised minorities who claimed arabness and despised berberity. Its only with colonisation and introduction of telecommunications, infrastructure, arab language schooling long after arab invasions that lots of Berbers forgot their languages, moved to the cities, worked with and for the elite rulers and became arabised or bilingual. Things are changing though, there’s a whole movement fighting for reconnaissance of the Moroccan berber identity. Berber languages are recently official in Morocco.

Arabised berbers frequently claim arab but have very minor arab blood. Look up Rif Moroccans and Jebli Moroccans, they are neighbouring groups. One group is berber speaking,the other one is berber but arabised. They have more or less the same berber origin but the former still calls herself berber while the latter claim arab.

 

[Sonni]

-Those West Africn kingdoms thrived inspite of Islam not cause of it... even the link you posted earelier stated West African civilizations were established long before the introduction of Islam..

There has been war, conquest and slavery before Islam and there will be after. Who said there was nothing before Islam ?? But saying Songhai empire, Mali empire, Tukulor empire and many others trived in spite of Islam is a joke.

Islam was there downfall if anything since it divided Africans

African tribes were always divided.

by causin Mulim converts to wage ware Islamic wars/jihad on there peers on behalf of their arab masters as well introduciing the inhuman arab slave trade the region...

Slavery and slave trade existed long before Arabs set foot in Africa
Are you seriously telling me the Songhay, the Mande, the Fulanis, the Hausawa, conquered other tribes and territory on behalf of the Arabs ?? 90% of the muslim people from the Sahel were converted by other blacks and had never even met an arab or a berber. Arabs and Berbers was just a tribe as another. Sometimes there was war with them sometimes there was peace with them.

Yemeni arabs Islamist also invaded and destoryed black African civliziations such as Ghana,Songhai,Mali and Moorish empire,

Ghana and all empires were destroyed by droughts, internal dissensions, invading blacks from neighbouring tribes as much as by Arab-berbers. Moorish empire was Al Mourabitoun and Mourabitoun got defeated by Al-Mouwahidoun. Al-Mouwahidoun were other arab-berbers. Thats just history. Empires come and go, rise and get destroyed. Why be so insecure about that.

If cowards are easily have enslaved and dominated black African Muslims for centuries what does that say about them?

Were you got that easily from ?
The only thing they managed to do was kidnap kids when the men were busy in the fields. Thats cowardly to us. I’m repeating myself. Every single black african muslim empire in West-Africa bordering the Sahara had arabs and berbers under its authority. In Mauritania Berbers were completely defeated by Arabs and didnt have the right to bear arms and speak their own language. To this day they are even ashamed of recognising they are berber or part berber and claim pure arabness. We(soutehrn blacks) are still standing, speaking our languages and keeping our traditions and way of life. Easily dominated black african muslims, my ass.

If tribal arabsist in Mauritania/North Africa were smart enough to put their tribal allegeiances on the backburner to unite under one banner pan arabism black Mauritanians could/should do the same to look after their own interest...

Black Mauritanians is a new concept. Only in the USA black is a tribe. How many times do I have to tell you black africans traditionnaly do not identify by race but by tribe. Are you New World blacks even united ? How many mixed race and black dominicans or mixed race and black brazilians are quick to dissociate from african-americans or even deny their obvious blackness. Do most dominicans feel brotherhood with Haitians.

Well Haratine and Fulanis and Soninkes and Wolof in Mauritania are different too. They were under different authorities, they had their own territories, customs, etc ... Its only since 1960 that we are all together in a same artificial state founded by colonial France. And even then until the 1980’s there was no real beef with bidhanis. They did their thing we did ours, we had our share of power their had theirs. Its only since the middle of the 80’s that they try to completely take over. We are resisting that and at the same time trying to connect with the Haratine but its not an easy task as Haratine have been enslaved and alienated for centuries.
For arab-berbers its easier to unite, they all speak the same language we don't. They all have the same ancestors we dont. They all have the same culture and way of life we dont. Being muslim has never stopped us from kicking arab-berber ass when needed. Ask the Tukulor Almamys, ask the Songhay Askias. Heck even ask the Toubous from Chad who are getting it in with Libyan Arabs in southern Libya.

-I'm sure he legacy of French colonization strengthen the aleardy existing arab/white power structure in Mauritania but didn't the Yemeni orign Biedines already conquer the Moors and had been the ruling class in Mauritanailong before the French arrived?

In the territory called Mauritania today. There was Moorish society ruling the Northern part and black societies ruling the southern parts of what is now Mauritania. The Hassan arabs definitively beat the berbers in 1674 during the Char Bubba war and since then Yemeni Arabs arabised the berbers and became the ruling class. This has nothing to do with southern blacks, as southern blacks were living in different societies with their own rules and rulers. Moors were neighbours with whom we did business. Sometimes there was beef, sometimes there was peace. Also again, Moors is an european denomination. In the past centuries it meant any north-african muslim. There were no Moors before the invasion in Spain. There was no invasion in Spain before the spread Islam. There would be no spread of Islam if Arabs never entered the region. Thus without Arabs no Moors. So how can you say Yeminis conquered the Moors ?

I'm not just talking about democracy...Blacks in Mauritania need to stand up for themselves....

Isnt that what we are doing right now? Isnt this thread about blacks in Mauritania standing up against the bidhanis attempt of subjecting them. (again Its only since the middle of the 80’s that they try to completely take over) Completely alone, not a single nation helping them in any way. But the bidhanes have help from Arab nations, France, the EU, the USA, China, ... in the form of donations in the millions of $, military training, scholarships. Yes, even your half-african president Barack Obama is a staunch ally of mauritanian bidhani dominated regimes.

As for democracy. Do you know what a dictatorship is ? What would be the situation of black americans if the USA was a dictatorship ruled by whites. Do you know what it is to have a friend have the balls to publicly say fukk the president or fukk General X and the next day he simply dissapears. Or you write an open letter and the next week your father loses his job ? Its easy to talk in your democracy and your financial comfort. Are you gonna help find that missing guy ? Are you gonna pay that family chief salary ?
If by a miracle we are able to get arms and our villages get bombed by planes with thousands of dead men, women and children per week. Are you gonna take a plane to join the fight. How many african-americans will come and offer help ? How many minutes of (fair) reporting are we gonna get on CNN ? Get of your high horse and think about that.

They are the majority so they fact Beidanes have dominated them so throughly for so long is partially there fault and makes them look weak

Who is majority ? In Mauritania blacks are majority but at the same time arabs are majority because the Haratine are arabised just like berbers are arabised. Most feel arab despite having been enslaved in the past and treated as second class citizens today and that is understandable. Just as it is understandable that african-americans feel American and united with white americans despite having been enslaved for centuries and treated as second class citizens long after the end of slavery.
If there is war between a west-african nation and the USA. Are you telling me all african-americans will fight for the west-african nation ? Not sure isnt it. Well same for Haratine not all of them feel united with non-Haratine blacks. Different history, different language, different culture, ... But we(haratine and fulani and soninke and progressive bidanis) are trying to get people to see past that. Not easy since the Haratines speak hassiniya arabic as the Moors do and the southern blacks speak their own languages(they hate speaking arabic and refuse arabisation) plus french for the educated ones. Its much harder than you think.

The only thoroughly dominated people are the Haratine. But they are starting to fight back and us the non-Haratine blacks will be by their side. They will get to complete freedom and equality soon.

...I sympathize for the plight of the ederly ,women and children of Haratines but the able bodied male whom like Beidines walk all over them need to man up.

You as an african american(?) descendent of slaves should know the damage mental slavery does to illiterate people. Before 1865 how many plantations in the South where blacks outnumbered white like 8 to 1. Think about that instead of sitting in your 1st world environment telling a people you know next to nothing about to ''man up''.