Race relations, slavery and discrimination in Saharan and Sahelian West-Africa

[the mechanic]

Thank you for the info breh

 

[Sonni]

out of curiosity..What does the average "white Moor" look like? It seems to me "white Moors" are the Moors whom ancestors mixed with arabs and Romans and ligher skinned arabasized Berbers.. I've seen distinction made between Haratines and black Moors before but it seems like you are saying they are one and the same..

A former aquitance on another forum of mine once claimed to me that Mauritanians/Moors and Tuaregs are the same people and that the Moors are arabaized Tuareg....Do you think there is validity to that theory?

Average white Moor is a mix of arab-berber who might have some black-african blood



The average black moor is a black african who might have some arab-berber blood

Moors are Sanhaja not arabized Tuaregs but they could share a common ancestor. As we are speaking Moors and Touaregs are in conflict in northern Mali.

In Mauritania and Mali a Haratine is a black man of Arab-berber culture.

 

[Sonni]

The 1989-1991 clamp down on black-africans
While the racial tensions developed into daily clashes between Arab settlers and black farmers, relations with Senegal were deteriorating. When the farming season began in 1988 farmers from the left bank of the river were prevented by the Arabs from cultivating their farms on the Mauritania side. Senegal retaliated by banning Mauritanian camels from grazing on the Senegalese side. This developed into a trade embargo, media war and daily confrontation between blacks and Arabs along the border (Sy, Tall, 1989). At the same time the racial and political situations reached boiling point following the death of four prominent black political prisoners at Walata and the discovery of the Iraqi inspired Ba‟ath coup attempt.

This was the prelude to the April 1989 crisis when Mauritanian border guards crossed into the Senegalese village of Diawara on April 9, to fight alongside Mauritanian herders against Senegalese farmers. The guards killed two Senegalese and took 13 other hostages into Selibaby in Mauritania. Anti-arab Mauritanian demonstrations were organized throughout Senegal and Arab shops were sacked by angry youth (Diallo, S., 1989). In Mauritania, an anti-black massacre assystematically carried out by Arab extremists. SEM militants were reported to have met on the eve of the massacre to transport slaves from the east by bus to carry out the killing of more than 1,000 Senegalese, black Mauritanians, Guineans, Ghanaians and Ivoirians on April 24-25,1989 (Africa Confidential, 1989a, Parker, 1991). It was rumored that the killing was planned by Colonel Gabriel Cymper, the political minister and the state secretary for the SEM, Ould Rachid (Diallo, 1989b).

This gave the Mauritanian regime a golden opportunity to inter-nationalize its own internal problems. Black Africans who were seen as an obstacle to the total Arabisation of the country were accused of being Senegalese and hunted down and killed, rounded up into detention camps or deported to Senegal and Mali. An estimated 500,000 Arab Mauritanians who had previously controlled up to 80 per cent of the retail trade in Senegal were either repatriated or moved to other West African countries and the estimated 30,000–40,000 Senegalese immigrant labourers in Mauritania were repatriated. The operation was executed with air transport help from France, Morocco, Algeria and Spain. In the context of the war situation, Mauritania started an unprecendented campaign of deportation of its own black citizens to Senegal and Mali. Between 70,000 (UNHCR, 1989) and 150,000 (Diallo,S.,1989) black citizens including high-ranking civil servants, army personnel, farmers and Fulani herdsmen were stripped of everything including their clothes and nationality papers, and then forced to cross the river. As a result of the anti-black pogroms, Taya became a hero both in the eyes of the pan-Arab elements within his own community, and among nationalist Arab regimes such as Iraq, Libya and Syria (Diallo, 1991a; Parker, 1991).

Arab nationalists who were serving prison sentences were released and anew and bloody crackdown on blacks was carried out when between 3,000 and 5,000 thousand blacks were suddenly rounded up in late 1990. When the prisoners were released in March 1991 it dawned on the black community that more than 500 of the detainees had been murdered in custody (African Concord, 1991; US Congress, 1991; FLAM, 1991;Diallo, 1991a). The Nouakchott regimes was forced to introduce some sort of political reforms, partly by the democratic changes weeping throughout the continent and a desire to repair its image following its support for Saddam Hussein during the Gulf War.

Mauritania the other apartheid ?
http://www.artsrn.ualberta.ca/amcdouga/Hist247/winter_2011/resources/mauritania_other_apartheid.pdf
MAURITANIA'S CAMPAIGN. OF TERROR. State-Sponsored Repression of Black Africans
http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/MAURITAN944.PDF

 

[B-Rock Odrama]

yes, there is a gray area between freedom and slavery and thats is where most Haratines are in. The fight is against slavery and the discrimination of slave-descendants. Traditional slavery is working for no pay. A master can let you do what you do for 5 years and then suddenly if your father dies he can come and take all your meager belongings by justifying you are his slave and you have never been freed. This is frequent in Mauritania. If you want clear cases of slavery I can give that to you. But it will be in french.

Also you are right blacks are a clear majority but very divided and many still choose to serve the white dominated government racist objectives.

Why don't the Haratines resist this? Sounds like they let the "white Moor" walk all over them cause of their inferiority complex more so than any physical threat..I noticed in the video that abolionist/Haratine rights advocate said that technically today Haratines are loyal to and choose to stay with the Bidine's cause they have been conditioned to think serving their masters is their purpose in life and most could just leave anytime they wanted..But then again one guy and a mother and her daughter claimed to be abused and held captive by their former masters..Which scenerio is more common of slavery there?

And how are Mauritania's political leaders elected? You would think in a majority black country more black laders would be in the government and look after the interest of the haratines and other oppressed black Mauritanians.

 

[emoney]

glad we actually have a Mauritanian on here

big up thread starter

so now all you Afro-Americans who like to big up the historical Moors can get first hand information

 

[B-Rock Odrama]

Average white Moor is a mix of arab-berber who might have some black-african blood



The average black moor is a black african who might have some arab-berber blood

Moors are Sanhaja not arabized Tuaregs but they could share a common ancestor. As we are speaking Moors and Touaregs are in conflict in northern Mali.

In Mauritania and Mali a Haratine is a black man of Arab-berber culture.

Yeah I suspect modern Moors are several branches of people one of which includes arabasized Tuaregs...The very fair skinned elite Bidine/white Moors are obvously have European, arab, and African influences. and are probably no different from the average Morrocan and other North Africans with similar mixed ancestries.

The socalled black Moors /Haratines are the closest people to the original Moors..

 

[emoney]

so basically arabo-berbers are "white moors" and haratines are "black moors"?

is that correct?

 

[emoney]

Yeah I suspect modern Moors are several branches of people one of which includes arabasized Tuaregs...The very fair skinned elite Bidine/white Moors are obvously have European, arab, and African influences. and are probably no different from the average Morrocan and other North Africans with similar mixed ancestries.

The socalled black Moors /Haratines are the closest people to the original Moors..

 

[B-Rock Odrama]

What's funny? Moors in itself means black not white so that should tell you something...For some reason I can't post pictures but there are countless ancient /Medevil artwork with potrays the Moors as a black people as well literally work which vividly describes their black features...The mutt White Moors/Bideine ruling class are remnants of Rome, Yemeni arabs, and French invaders whom conquere Mauritania, raped Moorish women, and enslaved the Haratine=original Moors.

 

[B-Rock Odrama]

so basically arabo-berbers are "white moors" and haratines are "black moors"?

is that correct?

No arabs/European mongrels caled Bidines are the slavors and conquerors of the Moors.

 

[Blackking]

In the light of current fight against arab-berber slavery in Mauritania I decided to make a thread about this subject of which many young black North-Americans have only vaguely heard of.

This isn't really something that's talked about so good thread.

Where do u live at now?

Y do none of the white moors look white? or does light brown mean white in that region?

Also, this is an Islamic region.. what do the official laws say about all this slavery?

 

[Sonni]

Why don't the Haratines resist this? [/B]Sounds like they let the "white Moor" walk all over them cause of their inferiority complex more so than any physical threat..I noticed in the video that abolionist/Haratine rights advocate said that technically today Haratines are loyal to and choose to stay with the Bidine's cause they have been conditioned to think serving their masters is their purpose in life and most could just leave anytime they wanted..But then again one guy and a mother and her daughter claimed to be abused and held captive by their former masters..Which scenerio is more common of slavery there?

Most Haratines are brainwashed and never have known something else than serving others are being 2nd class tribal members for hundreds of years. There is slavery and there is dependency(tributaries). Also slave masters are not all the same. Some will let a slave go if he is too unhandable or getting too strong minded. But the slave of a slave master who has guns cars and connections in the government and is intended on freeing no one can not just leave and be free. It happens that some slave master just let them go after him being broke or having too much trouble because of rebellious attitude, etc ... For instance after the drought of the 70’s a lot of Haratine simply left or the masters told them to go because the masters were broke themselves and lost everything. These people are living in shantytowns near the capital now. Many Haratine also left after the war with Polisario in 1979, many Haratine were enlisted in the army and put up a good fight. After the end of the war being captains, lieutenants, simple soldiers simply refused to go back and live as tributary. They still had to ask for favors to the beidane elite to get housing, jobs, etc ... Thats what is dependency in Mauritania.

As for no physical threat, the Beydanes are tribalized and control the economy, the army, the legal system, the diplomatic relations, education... The powerful ones can get away with almost anything that includes make you dissapear and then making it look like suicide or drowning. You name it. Half the Haratine can not read or write how is a Haratine who lives 1000 km from the capital in the middle of the desert gonna get justice.

And how are Mauritania's political leaders elected? You would think in a majority black country more black laders would be in the government and look after the interest of the haratines and other oppressed black Mauritanians.

Mauritania has only been a democracy since 1991, a very flawed one at that. Mauritania holds the records of coups. Black Africans are a minority and they dont view themselves as the same people as the Haratine who talk like Moors, dress like Moors, eat like Moors, wed like Moors, etc There is no alliance between the two groups we are only now witnessing the beginning of an alliance between the anti-system leaders of the two groups.

When its election time a game of alliances and interest groups transcending ethnicity starts. The beydanes simply buy beidanes from the opposition, black african mayors and Haratines according them privileges if they support them. Some accept, some don't. It doesnt really matter the party in power is the side of the people who say there is no slavery in Mauritania but only the legacy of it, they are the ones who study abroad, they are the colonels and generals of the army, they are the ones who own the few big companies, they are the ones who live in big villas and their children watch MTV. It will take a lot of time for true democracy and justice. First there needs to be unity among the marginalised. Some beidane groups are marginalised too.

 

[Sonni]

so basically arabo-berbers are "white moors" and haratines are "black moors"?

is that correct?

Yes thats correct. But bear in mind there has been some mixing over the centuries of course.
Its not hard to find Beidane with black grandmothers.

This isn't really something that's talked about so good thread.

Where do u live at now?

Y do none of the white moors look white? or does light brown mean white in that region?

Also, this is an Islamic region.. what do the official laws say about all this slavery?

I live in Europe.
They call themselves white and are descendants of Sanhaja berbers and Yemeni Arabs.
Some of them look white, others light brown. They all claim beydane(white). Just like many african americans look very light brown almost white but claim black and would never claim white. Beidane comes from Al Beid in arabic Beid means white.


Official law is sharia and french inspired modern law. Beidane islamic scholars are hypocrits serving the power and either shut up about discrimination or find arguments to slow emancipation or support slavery.

 

[Sonni]

The socalled black Moors /Haratines are the closest people to the original Moors..

Haratine are not originally Moors, they are slave descendants mostly bought or raided from the area of Mali or Senegal with indigenous northern mauritanians and descendents of merchants, students who stayed in beidane territory.

 

[B-Rock Odrama]

Most Haratines are brainwashed and never have known something else than serving others are being 2nd class tribal members for hundreds of years. There is slavery and there is dependency(tributaries). Also slave masters are not all the same. Some will let a slave go if he is too unhandable or getting too strong minded. But the slave of a slave master who has guns cars and connections in the government and is intended on freeing no one can not just leave and be free. It happens that some slave master just let them go after him being broke or having too much trouble because of rebellious attitude, etc ... For instance after the drought of the 70’s a lot of Haratine simply left or the masters told them to go because the masters were broke themselves and lost everything. These people are living in shantytowns near the capital now. Many Haratine also left after the war with Polisario in 1979, many Haratine were enlisted in the army and put up a good fight. After the end of the war being captains, lieutenants, simple soldiers simply refused to go back and live as tributary. They still had to ask for favors to the beidane elite to get housing, jobs, etc ... Thats what is dependency in Mauritania.

As for no physical threat, the Beydanes are tribalized and control the economy, the army, the legal system, the diplomatic relations, education... The powerful ones can get away with almost anything that includes make you dissapear and then making it look like suicide or drowning. You name it. Half the Haratine can not read or write how is a Haratine who lives 1000 km from the capital in the middle of the desert gonna get justice.

Mauritania has only been a democracy since 1991, a very flawed one at that. Mauritania holds the records of coups. Black Africans are a minority and they dont view themselves as the same people as the Haratine who talk like Moors, dress like Moors, eat like Moors, wed like Moors, etc There is no alliance between the two groups we are only now witnessing the beginning of an alliance between the anti-system leaders of the two groups.

When its election time a game of alliances and interest groups transcending ethnicity starts. The beydanes simply buy beidanes from the opposition, black african mayors and Haratines according them privileges if they support them. Some accept, some don't. It doesnt really matter the party in power is the side of the people who say there is no slavery in Mauritania but only the legacy of it, they are the ones who study abroad, they are the colonels and generals of the army, they are the ones who own the few big companies, they are the ones who live in big villas and their children watch MTV. It will take a lot of time for true democracy and justice. First there needs to be unity among the marginalised. Some beidane groups are marginalised too.

-That's pathetic honestly...Like Is said Islam is a far greater slave religon that Christianity...Black Mulims worship "white arabs" like they Allah or Mohommed themselves cause their religion teaches them arabs are god's chosen people and blacks were born to serve them...As soon as those Haratine's abandon that terrorist cult(Islam) the sooner they would be to emancipating themselves wholely.

-Biedines only make up 30% of the country by the law of average you would think the 70% black population would elect more people from their background to address their issues...But I guess they being conditioned by Islam to think only fair skinned arabs are fit to lead.