I understand your argument and the guy has made his decision to never speak to her again, but I would argue that he is not completely over it. Has he learned from it? Of course he has and that's clear, but I wouldn't necessarily say he has handled it in the most ideal way. There comes a time in which you HAVE to let go and him holding on to this anger over what happened in the past is not healthy. Closure is extremely important and at the very least should have provided that (he does not HAVE TO). In the end what is his gain if the woman continues to look for him wherever he is? I wouldn't want that on my end, but maybe I am in the minority when it comes to these situations.
Essential Quick Lil Gems on Dealing with Women
- Thread starter Rominati
- Start date
That's one of the reasons I've never paid much mind to chicks who like me because I look good to them. I mean, I like to consider myself a handsome dude, but if a female can only compliment me on my appearance, I can't take her seriously. Compliment me on my intellect, my way of thinking, my talents. Who cares how I look? They might meet another dude who they feel looks better than me, then throw me to the wayside.
Then you have some broads who don't care so much about looks, but your status. I remember my cousin used to play around around and try to hook me up with his homegirl (who happened to attend the same college as I did at the time). He would tell me that she said I was cute (hate that word by the way) but too quiet. Mind you, back then, I was pretty cordial to her and when I saw her on campus, I would make conversation. She was actually the quiet one. Anyway, she had this dude she messed with on and off. This dude was one of the popular non-athlete black dudes on campus apparently, and while I don't judge dudes, he was ugly...definitely not on my level. Even as recently as 3 years ago, me, my cousin, his girl and her all kicked it. Old girl had a boyfriend in another state at the time (she was living in another state part time for business). Tell me why that same dude, the on and off again cat from college, show up as we're leaving the club and she got in the car with him? Don't know if she left with him or not since she drove her own car, but still. AND this dude had a couple of baby mamas by this time.
Funny thing is, she has a good paying job, her own house, her own car, she looks good, no kids but is still single. She has an older sister who I think is pretty much the same, except chubbier with a kid or two. She also was raised by a single mom, so I can pretty much see where this "independent woman" life is gonna take her. A few weeks ago, she posted some silly quote on Facebook talking about men not knowing their roles when it comes to dating and paying for the date. One simp co-signed her, but most of us dudes disagreed. She eventually got mad and said she's done talking about it...lol.
Another great comment, this time pulled from: - Why are so many married Christian women refusing to have sex with their husbands? | The Woman and the Dragon
Im going to take a stab at this from my atheist point of view and my own marriage as a backdrop. Feel free to ignore me..
Marriage has lost its way in todays society. With women truly *not* needing men for provisioning, shelter and protection (getting it all from government and employment in the sectors of leech and non production), a world that teaches independence as a prize to be cherished.. well it broke the straw of the camel. Marriage was on life support and marriage 2.0 is simply for show and tell.
When women depended on men, they didnt have the choice-abundance mentality they have today. It was choose someone fast and lock down to survive. Even if you werent attracted, you performed your role as it guaranteed your survival for starters, and provided a better chance for children/legacy. Marriage was the barter for that.
Today, theres nothing left to barter for because men have nothing to offer besides the superficial traits of looks, and spitting game to display alpha. When all the womans other needs are met, shes free to choose for sexy sons and hypergamous lust.
Marriage serves no purpose other than status, fashion accessory or cash prize lotto. Welcome to the 21st century.
If you didnt hit the genetic jackpot and are deemed too unattractive.. with no external pressure on women to marry like in the past.. why are they going to have sex with you then? Are you going to kick them out into the world cold and hungry to fend for themselves? No, they got luxury condos furnished by IKEA from their job in social marketing sending out tweets. They will survive well without you, along with any pretense of having obligation sex.
(the converse holds true.. you dont have and obligation to rescue them from spinsterhood and marry up those sluts in their 30′s and beyond, you will survive just as well without them)
Heres the other aspect. Women want love, but they only want that love by earning it. A man should not dole out any love unless he commands and receives respect, admiration and submission from his partner. Only when she does that effectively will you actually feel real love for her, falling for her.. this is her *working* for your love. You are then free to show it towards her and that love will actually mean something to her because she created it in you.
Most men are taught to give love selflessly. The beta path. When they do that, the woman isnt working for it, its meaningless, empty and hollow. We all know where that goes. Straight to divorce court.
This is the whole problem with marriage.. the media glam 21st century version of her day its all about HER, and his showing his love for her by doing all these stupid rituals in professing his love for her. The whole ritual SHOULD be about her professing her desire to be loved by him and her wanting to submit to him. (Dalrocks cake post today nailed it) He is the prize that she managed to convince him to forsake all others to be there at the podium. She worked hard to make him bond with her, to love her, to show up in the tux.
Today the whole ritual is ass backwards and self starts the downward spiral of putting the onus on the man to always be showing and demonstrating his love towards her, never stressing that she should be EARNING it from him. Lordy dont i know that after having gotten my exwife by being the alpha, and starting with the proposal right on down to the wedding ceremony it was a slow slide into beta doom. My marriage counsellor sealed my fate by having me ramp up my supplication a thousand fold. Our marriage died right after our 4th session.
Athols MAP is probably the best form of correction in that you deny the woman outward displays of love if she hasnt earned it. This naturally puts them either back on the path of admiration, respect and submission.
No woman wants to have sex with a man she doesnt admire or respect. And if youre just shovelling out free love left right and center well very soon youre going to have a wife who doesnt want to have sex with you.
Tho all this is 10 thousand times harder because with so much of what the man used to do to be admired, respected for and submitted to are now accessible by women through modern convenience and government programs. Its too hard for a man to perform 100x harder today than his counterpart 100 years ago. Its also 100x easier for a woman to not submit and not require a man for anything thus making it 100x more likely shell bore of matrimonial chores and obligations.
Marriage cant be fixed without dealing with the external factors that enabled the disease to grow.
Personally for me, marriage long outlived its usefulness in todays day and age. Unless some massive calamity strikes and the lights go out.. marriage is just trying to ice skate uphill.
Just a ramble.. carry on, nothing to see here.
Marriage has lost its way in todays society. With women truly *not* needing men for provisioning, shelter and protection (getting it all from government and employment in the sectors of leech and non production), a world that teaches independence as a prize to be cherished.. well it broke the straw of the camel. Marriage was on life support and marriage 2.0 is simply for show and tell.
When women depended on men, they didnt have the choice-abundance mentality they have today. It was choose someone fast and lock down to survive. Even if you werent attracted, you performed your role as it guaranteed your survival for starters, and provided a better chance for children/legacy. Marriage was the barter for that.
Today, theres nothing left to barter for because men have nothing to offer besides the superficial traits of looks, and spitting game to display alpha. When all the womans other needs are met, shes free to choose for sexy sons and hypergamous lust.
Marriage serves no purpose other than status, fashion accessory or cash prize lotto. Welcome to the 21st century.
If you didnt hit the genetic jackpot and are deemed too unattractive.. with no external pressure on women to marry like in the past.. why are they going to have sex with you then? Are you going to kick them out into the world cold and hungry to fend for themselves? No, they got luxury condos furnished by IKEA from their job in social marketing sending out tweets. They will survive well without you, along with any pretense of having obligation sex.
(the converse holds true.. you dont have and obligation to rescue them from spinsterhood and marry up those sluts in their 30′s and beyond, you will survive just as well without them)
Heres the other aspect. Women want love, but they only want that love by earning it. A man should not dole out any love unless he commands and receives respect, admiration and submission from his partner. Only when she does that effectively will you actually feel real love for her, falling for her.. this is her *working* for your love. You are then free to show it towards her and that love will actually mean something to her because she created it in you.
Most men are taught to give love selflessly. The beta path. When they do that, the woman isnt working for it, its meaningless, empty and hollow. We all know where that goes. Straight to divorce court.
This is the whole problem with marriage.. the media glam 21st century version of her day its all about HER, and his showing his love for her by doing all these stupid rituals in professing his love for her. The whole ritual SHOULD be about her professing her desire to be loved by him and her wanting to submit to him. (Dalrocks cake post today nailed it) He is the prize that she managed to convince him to forsake all others to be there at the podium. She worked hard to make him bond with her, to love her, to show up in the tux.
Today the whole ritual is ass backwards and self starts the downward spiral of putting the onus on the man to always be showing and demonstrating his love towards her, never stressing that she should be EARNING it from him. Lordy dont i know that after having gotten my exwife by being the alpha, and starting with the proposal right on down to the wedding ceremony it was a slow slide into beta doom. My marriage counsellor sealed my fate by having me ramp up my supplication a thousand fold. Our marriage died right after our 4th session.
Athols MAP is probably the best form of correction in that you deny the woman outward displays of love if she hasnt earned it. This naturally puts them either back on the path of admiration, respect and submission.
No woman wants to have sex with a man she doesnt admire or respect. And if youre just shovelling out free love left right and center well very soon youre going to have a wife who doesnt want to have sex with you.
Tho all this is 10 thousand times harder because with so much of what the man used to do to be admired, respected for and submitted to are now accessible by women through modern convenience and government programs. Its too hard for a man to perform 100x harder today than his counterpart 100 years ago. Its also 100x easier for a woman to not submit and not require a man for anything thus making it 100x more likely shell bore of matrimonial chores and obligations.
Marriage cant be fixed without dealing with the external factors that enabled the disease to grow.
Personally for me, marriage long outlived its usefulness in todays day and age. Unless some massive calamity strikes and the lights go out.. marriage is just trying to ice skate uphill.
Just a ramble.. carry on, nothing to see here.
DaRealness
I think very deeply
Sorry, but what are you talking about, Liquid? Did we read the same article?
1) The man started a new serious relationship. He rightly told her not to be sending anymore cards because it was upsetting his new partner and it was inappropriate. She couldn't be content with that, so she decided to harass them with nuisance and aggressive phone calls despite not even wanting him back, but just for childish one-upmanship over his new girl. His only fault was not reporting her to the police for harassment and/or changing his number.
I don't know your situation, but ask yourself this: How would you handle it if your girl's ex kept sending her cards and when she tells him to back off he still keeps ringing your house making threatening phone calls - even if he no longer wants her?
This is like someone leaving a very well paid job without giving any notice for no reason other than they think they "can do better", then when they find themselves a new job and become unemployed, they try to reapply only to discover their boss hired a new person, then get angry at the boss for daring to hire a new guy and even cussing them both out for it despie not even wanting the old position back. I mean, how stupid does that scenario sound?
2) How is he holding on to anger? I see no evidence of that at all. If you're talking about his initial reactions to her after she caused him and his woman misery, then that's natural. Wouldn't you react the same way? She's been the bane of his existence for years and keeps causing him trouble despite him warning her off and not replying to her attempts at communication. She's obviously poison. This has been going on for YEARS...the poor guy just can't catch a break and it must be driving him mad. Of course he has to cut ties with her for his own emotional, mental and even physical health. He had a very lucky escape and he knows it.
You say he "should have" provided closure? Why? The man was cordial and friendly with her for a long time even AFTER they had already broke up. What more could she require? What is he supposed to do, keep meeting her in a cafe every three months with a "no hard feelings" talk just to reassure her? Where would it end? She's an adult, not a fukking child. She's not his responsibility. He doesn't owe her anything. He had/has a new woman in his life and when that occurs, the dynamics and boundaries change and he let her know that. This trick is nothing more than a fukking bunny boiler and I'm surprised she didn't break into their house and try to kill them.
3) You say "In the end what is his gain if the woman continues to look for him wherever he is?" How is that his fault and what is he supposed to do to prevent that? Don't you think remaining in contact with her would only exacerbate the situation? The marriage was over years ago. They don't have kids together where they have to remain in contact. The chick is evil, not to mention insane, because she just wants to get in his head and plague his psyche even after all this time. I sense the real motive behind this article is not even to make her story an example to all these other ditzy headed chicks out there, but to mess with dude's head and make sure he doesn't forget her. The Daily Mail is like the biggest newspaper over here and either he or someone he knows will come across this article and show him, therefore bringing flashbacks and possibly affecting his current marriage.
4)If she can't get over him, then that's what we have therapists/counsellors for.
5) SHE left HIM. That's the bottom line. A part of taking personal responsibility as an adult is moving on and letting the other person be happy if you really care about them, no matter how hard that may be.
I am not saying she was not in the wrong. Yeah I am still sticking with my initial thoughts...he is clearly holding on to something if he doesn't even have the decency to tell her straight up...its over for good and suggest that she start her life with someone else. A simple response saying that those days are over would have been sufficient. I am not a fan of therapists/counselors as they have a terrible track record when it comes to changing peoples lives.
Sorry, but what are you talking about, Liquid? Did we read the same article?
1) The man started a new serious relationship. He rightly told her not to be sending anymore cards because it was upsetting his new partner and it was inappropriate. She couldn't be content with that, so she decided to harass them with nuisance and aggressive phone calls despite not even wanting him back, but just for childish one-upmanship over his new girl. His only fault was not reporting her to the police for harassment and/or changing his number.
I don't know your situation, but ask yourself this: How would you handle it if your girl's ex kept sending her cards and when she tells him to back off he still keeps ringing your house making threatening phone calls - even if he no longer wants her?
This is like someone leaving a very well paid job without giving any notice for no reason other than they think they "can do better", then when they find themselves a new job and become unemployed, they try to reapply only to discover their boss hired a new person, then get angry at the boss for daring to hire a new guy and even cussing them both out for it despie not even wanting the old position back. I mean, how stupid does that scenario sound?
2) How is he holding on to anger? I see no evidence of that at all. If you're talking about his initial reactions to her after she caused him and his woman misery, then that's natural. Wouldn't you react the same way? She's been the bane of his existence for years and keeps causing him trouble despite him warning her off and not replying to her attempts at communication. She's obviously poison. This has been going on for YEARS...the poor guy just can't catch a break and it must be driving him mad. Of course he has to cut ties with her for his own emotional, mental and even physical health. He had a very lucky escape and he knows it.
You say he "should have" provided closure? Why? The man was cordial and friendly with her for a long time even AFTER they had already broke up. What more could she require? What is he supposed to do, keep meeting her in a cafe every three months with a "no hard feelings" talk just to reassure her? Where would it end? She's an adult, not a fukking child. She's not his responsibility. He doesn't owe her anything. He had/has a new woman in his life and when that occurs, the dynamics and boundaries change and he let her know that. This trick is nothing more than a fukking bunny boiler and I'm surprised she didn't break into their house and try to kill them.
3) You say "In the end what is his gain if the woman continues to look for him wherever he is?" How is that his fault and what is he supposed to do to prevent that? Don't you think remaining in contact with her would only exacerbate the situation? The marriage was over years ago. They don't have kids together where they have to remain in contact. The chick is evil, not to mention insane, because she just wants to get in his head and plague his psyche even after all this time. I sense the real motive behind this article is not even to make her story an example to all these other ditzy headed chicks out there, but to mess with dude's head and make sure he doesn't forget her. The Daily Mail is like the biggest newspaper over here and either he or someone he knows will come across this article and show him, therefore bringing flashbacks and possibly affecting his current marriage.
4)If she can't get over him, then that's what we have therapists/counsellors for.
5) SHE left HIM. That's the bottom line. A part of taking personal responsibility as an adult is moving on and letting the other person be happy if you really care about them, no matter how hard that may be.
You said you are surprised she did not try to break in and kill them, further strengthening my position on this whole thing. CLOSE it...absolutely get it out of her head that those days are over and she should look for someone else. I say this because I had to handle a situation similar to this when I was younger and think I handled it much better than Matthew did. Why? The girl is now married and has a kid and is at peace with her life instead of holding on to a mistake that she made years earlier. A simple phone call was all it took to diffuse the situation FOREVER. I think she might have been in this position of 11+ years still "wondering" what was going on and I never saw the gain on my end of not providing that closure to someone (She was still holding on for 6 in my case). In fact I gained a whole lot of peace of mind knowing that if I am walking around in the old neighborhood that I don't have to possibly deal with the fact that I might run into her and have her give me a sob story of how she would have made things better. My ex wrote a letter to my sister, then enclosed another letter as well for me...thats when I knew I had to diffuse the situation as I saw the obsessive behavior start to come out. She did not write to me directly because by that time I had already left NY and had no clue where I was living.
Again, I might be in the minority here. But its very comforting on MY END knowing that I don't have someone looking for me or thinking of what could have been so many years after the fact. THAT is what I REALLY consider moving on..for BOTH.
To be clear here...fukk that woman and I am not trying to defend her actions in anyway. She is a clear example of what is wrong with developed nations in where feminism has occurred and have females abuse this position of distinct advantage.
Mister_DoItNice
Leading The Regime
I don't see how he needed to give her closure. She left him and he told her to stop calling and sending letters. Sounds pretty clear to me. Her being stuck on him has nothing to do with closure and everything to do with her not being satisfied ultimately with the other men she dated. She obviously had closure or she wouldn't have pursued two long term relationships after she left her husband. She isn't owed anything beyond being told not to contact him anymore. She's just sad that he's happy and she isn't. If the next guy she dated wanted to marry her, be faithful, and have children she wouldn't give two fukks about turning her back on her ex husband. She's remorseful NOW because she fell flat on her face and is out in the cold.
She's still wondering what could have been...not complete closure. Listen we can go back and forth saying what he could have done. I am just putting myself in that specific position. If someone were to bring her up to him his response will probably be filled with anger. The other way I am proposing it will probably be a response of indifference at this point. There is no price in how much better it feels.
Sad thing is is that she doesn't really love or care for him. She only cares for this fantasy in her mind of what 'could have been.' She pretty much said she didn't want to be with him at one point after the break-up, but was rather trying to upstage another woman. In those 30s, she got into family and babymaking mode and knows that biological clock is ticking. She sees him and his family and the happiness, and pictures herself in that position, but the reality is is that she doesn't want to put in the work to make that happen. She would prefer that happiness handed to her on the platter.
She's another perfect case of not loving the man, but rather some sort of status he is in. He pretty much told her to get lost, and NOW she is all over him... but when she was with him, she didn't appreciate any of what he did.
When you find you a decent woman that likes you for you, get away from the game... far, far away, or else you'll be dealing with nonsense like that constantly. This especially goes for you young cats you may come up on a woman who doesn't look at her 20's as time to ho up until she blows up. IF you manage to catch you a decent one, do not become 'curious' about what else is out there unless you want to be stuck walking around in this landmine filled landscape that is modern dating. You aren't missing much being 'in the game'. Hoes will ALWAYS be around. A quality woman won't.
She's another perfect case of not loving the man, but rather some sort of status he is in. He pretty much told her to get lost, and NOW she is all over him... but when she was with him, she didn't appreciate any of what he did.
When you find you a decent woman that likes you for you, get away from the game... far, far away, or else you'll be dealing with nonsense like that constantly. This especially goes for you young cats you may come up on a woman who doesn't look at her 20's as time to ho up until she blows up. IF you manage to catch you a decent one, do not become 'curious' about what else is out there unless you want to be stuck walking around in this landmine filled landscape that is modern dating. You aren't missing much being 'in the game'. Hoes will ALWAYS be around. A quality woman won't.
Zapp Brannigan
Captain of the Nimbus
DaRealness
I think very deeply
No disrespect, but what is it you're not getting?
Don't you hear of the many cases where men have tried to close it with women and let them down as gently as possible, giving them reassurance up to the eyeballs and the woman STILL gets all fatal attraction on him? Even if this guy did just that, you seriously think by reading that article with all her crazy actions, this chick would have just left it that? Is there anything in the article even indicating that? She's unbalanced like elephants and ants on see-saws, that's the bottom line. He could have given her all the so called "closure" in the world, took a picture and framed it, it still wouldn't have been enough.
You mention you gave this girl you were going out with closure when you started to see the obsessive behaviour come out after your relationship ended....frankly your situation is an anomaly. If your ex was really unhinged like this woman was, then you would have probably had a psycho on your hands to deal with regardless of anything you might have said or done to get it out of her head because as we all know, women at times get seriously emotionally attached sometimes to the point of craziness. I also know of a case of an old family friend who was harassed by an ex to the point where dude nearly had a nervous breakdown and was scared to leave the house....and he gave her "closure" and it didn't work because she thought any attempt on his part to communicate with her meant deep down he still wanted to be with her. It got to the point where his family had to take out an injunction on her.
I'll say it again, because this is key: The woman in the article left him. She's the one who ended it. She's the one who ADMITTED she didn't even want him back in the first place (so what possible "closure" is he supposed to give her if that is the case?!??!). Therefore, the onus doesn't lie on him to do anything at all. You give someone like that the time of day by giving "closure" and in their crazy minds, they will just think "oh he still loves me" and will just feed into her madness. You say you're not defending this woman yet you seem to be riding for her more than the dude she's mentally tortured over the years, talking about he doesn't have "the decency" which I find pretty strange. Sorry, but you're sounding like one of those simps (I'm not saying you are one) and feminist chicks who always say bullshyt like "it's the MAN'S JOB to do xyz". No, the only "decent" thing for him to do is focus all his energies on his new wife and potential family. He doesn't have time to be reassuring an ex of long ago who ended their marriage in the first place by concerning himself over what she may or may not be thinking. He has new commitments and responsibilities and she is not one of them. He might as well go around giving "closure" to every single person he has ever had a failed relationship or friendship with if that's the case. It's not as if this chick doesn't have a support network of friends and family to fall back on anyway even if she doesn't see a therapist which I still think she needs.
You say: "If someone were to bring her up to him his response will probably be filled with anger." Of course he'd be angry after all these years of provocation and harassment especially now that's it's been made public. Wouldn't you? The bytch won't leave him the fukk alone despite having all the opportunities in the world to live her own life and meet someone new. I mean, what, is he supposed to have some sort of twinkle in his eyes and get all nostalgic?
Zapp Brannigan
Captain of the Nimbus
Unhealthy Obsession With A Celebrity *please Help* - Page 2 -
Reallyif you read through the posts. I'm on my phone right now, so it's too time consuming to copy and paste posts. But really some women, even when they're in their mid 30's with nothing going for them, think they're too good for a "normal" life. Been seeing that trend a lot lately.
Then they turn around and get mad at men for now "growing up" and marrying them.
Zapp Brannigan
Captain of the Nimbus
They want guys to be pursuing 24/7, but then they freak out or get turned off when guys pursue 24/7.
Scustin Trillberlake
Banned
My mom just tried to shame me for being 28 and going on a date with a 21 year-old. It was pretty much you need to be a utility provider for a women closer to your age and not date younger women. What? 28 and 21 isn't even that bad. Noticing feminist silliness from your female family members is a painful thing.
