Question: Why is it always held against Kobe that he played with Shaq when Magic had Kareem?

[2Quik4UHoes]

They faced the same inferior comp together, so by your logic it should've been easier for kobe to nab a FMVP while he was playing with shaq.

Kobe never had matchups as clearly lopsided as Todd McCullough, an old Mutumbo, fukkin Austin Croshere and Jonathan Bender or whoever the fukk the Pacers has guarding Shaq.

Also to @CHICAGO’s point. This is the reason why comparing nikkaz to Jordan is retarded to begin with. He was such a flash in the pan that he combined all worlds into one. He had the consensus to win all awards and the skills to prove it. Using the same metrics for Shaq doesn’t work because then it puts holes into his shyt seeing as how Kobe put in major work during the playoffs when the Lakers faced real danger.

 

[Yungin]

Kareem needed magic to sustain his career, lakers went to the finals as soon as magic arrived and went to the finals after kareem retired

magic won 3 league mvp's and 3 finals mvp's in that same span. kareem 1 league mvp 1 finals mvp kobe 00000000 anything

shaq and magic were the engines of the lakers dynasties you can't rewrite history sorry

So for the 5 rings they won together he only got 1 Finals mvp











Must’ve clearly been a sidekick

 

[Darts]

Kareem needed magic to sustain his career, lakers went to the finals as soon as magic arrived and went to the finals after kareem retired

magic won 3 league mvp's and 3 finals mvp's in that same span. kareem 1 league mvp 1 finals mvp kobe 00000000 anything

shaq and magic were the engines of the lakers dynasties you can't rewrite history sorry

Lakers don't even get to the 2000 finals without Kobe's game 7 WCF performance. Plus Phil relied on (a young) Kobe to keep the team motivated and hungry for a 3-peat, while the "engine" was lazy and uninspiring as fukk.

It's no mystery that Shaq has never won shyt before or after Kobe (ignoring the "gifted" 2006 title).

 

[Bilz]

But a lot of people like to prop up Kareem as the only player with a resume as legit as Jordan’s. I don’t disagree with any of your point tho, but why aren’t Kareem’s rings also devalued like people have tried to do with Kobe’s rings with Shaq?

Kareem's body of work is not being propped up by championships. There really isn't much debate about where he stands. Any metric you want to use will tell you he's in the debate for GOAT.

If people were making arguments that he is goat just because of his championships, then I'm sure people would bring up some of those championships where he was older and wasn't the clear #1.

 

[Brozay]

It's no mystery that Shaq has never shyt before or after Kobe (ignoring the "gifted" 2006 title).

ok but he did win a title, so that point is mute. many also feel he was robbed of the MVP in 2005

after the title in Miami he was 34 and clearly on the downside of his career

 

[ghostwriterx]

No one is saying he won it by himself. Actually people are saying Shaq won it with a lesser partner when it’s obvious they were both equal catalysts to the Lakers success.



But a lot of people like to prop up Kareem as the only player with a resume as legit as Jordan’s. I don’t disagree with any of your point tho, but why aren’t Kareem’s rings also devalued like people have tried to do with Kobe’s rings with Shaq?

I think people do devalue his rings to a certain extent. That's why he's generally not in the GOAT conversation. And I would imagine most Kobe fans have Bean over Kareem and Duncan so...

People do exaggerate to discredit Kobe's run with Shaq but Shaq was clearly better and more dominant than Kobe in the post Ewing/Robinson/Dream big man era. Shaq with the Lakers was better than Kareem with the Lakers and Magic was better than Kobe at the beginning of his career. Shaq/Kobe Lakers opponents in those Finals were also pretty trash, while Magic was going against heavyweights in Boston, Philly, Detroit. Factor all that in and Magic's get's more credit than Kobe during the first three-peat. It shouldn't really be a slight on Kobe though. He just happened to play with one of the most dominant big men ever in his prime.

 

[Yungin]

the phil jackson era in l.a. started with no kobe he broke his wrist in pre season and missed the 1st 15 games of the 99-00 season.Lakers went 11-4

no shaq to start the 02-03 season(toe surgery) lakers were 3-9 kobe jackin 47 shots in games while the lakers losing

I use to watch the lakers religiously cuz kobe carried the torch from the goat , he had pretty much free reign on the perimeter while shaq collapsed the whole defense

What about Kobe’s perimeter defense? I mean after all he does have the most first team defense appearances

 

[Draje]

Because 1st option rings matter more than 2nd option rings and the offense ran through Shaq during the 3-Peat. Kareem won before joining Magic so he was already established as a championship player.

The only reason people use that argument is because people will use 5 rings as a testament to Kobe’s greatness over others and say the finals is all that matters but then ignore Kobe being far worse than Shaq in the finals.

No one is saying he won it by himself. Actually people are saying Shaq won it with a lesser partner when it’s obvious they were both equal catalysts to the Lakers success.



But a lot of people like to prop up Kareem as the only player with a resume as legit as Jordan’s. I don’t disagree with any of your point tho, but why aren’t Kareem’s rings also devalued like people have tried to do with Kobe’s rings with Shaq?

Kareems rings are slightly devalued because he’d be the clear cut GOAT if they weren’t. Kobe’s accolades alone make him the 2nd best shooting guard and top ten easy.

Kareem also has 6 MVPs, won as the clear cut best player on his team (And In the league) before magic, and is the scoring leader so that props up his resume.

 

[YoungMoneyCashMoneyBoy]

Kobe never had matchups as clearly lopsided as Todd McCullough, an old Mutumbo, fukkin Austin Croshere and Jonathan Bender or whoever the fukk the Pacers has guarding Shaq.

Also to @CHICAGO’s point. This is the reason why comparing nikkaz to Jordan is retarded to begin with. He was such a flash in the pan that he combined all worlds into one. He had the consensus to win all awards and the skills to prove it. Using the same metrics for Shaq doesn’t work because then it puts holes into his shyt seeing as how Kobe put in major work during the playoffs when the Lakers faced real danger.

Breh stop it. You asked, "
Why is it always held against Kobe that he played with Shaq when Magic had Kareem?"

Magic wasn't the sidekick. 3 FMVPs to Kobe's 0. Granted, kobe had to go against defensive stoppers like 35 year old reggie Miller, 6' Allen Iverson, 3x DPOY Aaron Mckie, and Lifetime First Team All Defense Richard Jefferson, but at the end of the day, he was a robin.

Kobe: I Took It As An Honor To Be Shaq's Sidekick

'When asked point blank if he was Shaq’s sidekick during the duo’s time together, Kobe responded, “Yea, for sure.”'

 

[Osmosis]

I mean, Shaq won a ring with a 22 year old Wade almost immediately after leaving the Lakers. It’s clear what type of force he was.

 

[Jplaya2023]

Kareem needed magic to sustain his career, lakers went to the finals as soon as magic arrived and went to the finals after kareem retired

magic won 3 league mvp's and 3 finals mvp's in that same span. kareem 1 league mvp 1 finals mvp kobe 00000000 anything

shaq and magic were the engines of the lakers dynasties you can't rewrite history sorry

Kareem was 32 years old and nearing the end of his prime while magic was 12 years younger and on the upswing.

honestly magic and kareem should both have 2 finals MVP as cap was averaging 33 in the 80 finals vs philly and had the GW shot in game 5 and rolled his ankle and magic balled out in game 6 but cap should've won finals mvp

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

the phil jackson era in l.a. started with no kobe he broke his wrist in pre season and missed the 1st 15 games of the 99-00 season.Lakers went 11-4

no shaq to start the 02-03 season(toe surgery) lakers were 3-9 kobe jackin 47 shots in games while the lakers losing

I use to watch the lakers religiously cuz kobe carried the torch from the goat , he had pretty much free reign on the perimeter while shaq collapsed the whole defense

I’ll give you that season, Shaq was on another level of dominance. But after that Kobe was a top 5 player in the league but there’s forever a lopsided view that Kobe was some helpless actor in this that benefitted from Shaq’s presence.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Lakers don't even get to the 2000 finals without Kobe's game 7 WCF performance. Plus Phil relied on (a young) Kobe to keep the team motivated and hungry for a 3-peat, while the "engine" was lazy and uninspiring as fukk.

It's no mystery that Shaq has never shyt before or after Kobe (ignoring the "gifted" 2006 title).

I’m gonna guess you missed the first 5 games of the western finals that year

 

[GetSomeMoney]

Magic & Kareem
Magic - 3 FMVPs
Kareem - 1 FMVP

Shaq & Kobe
Shaq - 3 FMVPs
Kobe - 0 FMVPs

Thread should have ended right here

 

[UpAndComing]

Kareem was on the decline when Magic got there.