Put Some Hornacek On Our Game: 2016 New York Knicks Offseason Thread

[Mr. Jack Napier]

does anyone else think we have too many guys playing substantial mins because of their "intangibles"?

YES! that's the only logical reason why Amundson, Vujacic & Thomas are getting minutes.

 

[Victim of Racism]

Fisher was a terrible defender. Who was he help on? He helped Kobe? PGs regularly did what they wanted against Fisher. That's not to say he didn't attempt defense, but a good defender to me is someone who can shut you down or frustrate you and he did neither. They got where they wanted and did whatever. In his later years, he just stood there...with the occasional gamble. As for his shooting, you do know that Fisher REGULARY shot under 40% from the field? He was regulary under 30% for 3s...these are for full seasons. I don't even have to look this ish up, so feel free to check to see if I'm right.

The bolded is just pure lies. That's some ish the media started to say when Kobe requested that Fisher be brought back. And that was moreso because he knew the offense. He still only popped out baseline for the open J. In fact, he really only stayed in one spot and waited for the pass. He's NEVER ran an offense or directed the offense. He couldn't see the floor. Luckily the Lakers ran an offense that didn't require a PG per se. In LA it was everyone but him, Utah Deron, OKC Westbrook. Avery ran the offense for San An. He told Timmy where to go and when to get out the paint and repost, same with AdmiralIn Dallas he told Dirk to go high...and Cuban and Don were grooming him into a coach. Kidd is one of the best PGs in the history of the game so him becoming a coach right away wasn't a big deal.

Now as for the Seraphin vs O'Quinn argument - O'Quinn isn't a lateral athletic type of defender. He's a bully, so his job will be to play physical. You want to play him against bigs that post up or whenever they try to take advantage of KrisP. Use him like Oak/Kurt Thomas/Mase those types. He wasn't reluctant to shoot when he was getting mins. He was shooting enough to keep the defenses honest. Lance isn't a great defender either. he's not good at anything, but just likes his Luke Walton/Madsen players. Sounds like you're in love with him, just like Fisher. And Affalo is not a scorer. He's had 1 season of 18ppg and that shocked the hell out of everyone. He doesn't even have a scorers mentality. He's a 10-13ppg and that's not a scorer to me but he IS a solid player. They might as well had kept JR, because at least you know you have to defend him.

The rotations are questionable because he shouldn't be figuring it out still, after 20 games. A player gets 20mins one night, 2 DNPCDs then 5 then 20. These are rotational players that need their mins to do what they have to do...to make a positive contribution. You know what you have and you know what their limitations are. He's not even doing it based on matchups, and even if he was, that would make no sense for basketball, because that means that you're already letting the other team dictate your actions.

Let's take his initial backcourt of Jose & Sasha. We quiestioned it because neither are defenders. Jose is good at running an offense and a good shooter. When they took the need for a PG out of the offense and Jose wasn't shooting, why was he getting so many mins? He couldn't contribute anything. Sasha is a combo guard but still not a defender and not aggressive enough of offense. THIS is why we felt he should split them up. He wanted to run a speedy offense, but he clipped Derrick Williams mins, and he's one of the few slashers on the team. He wants to be a defensive team, but have no elite defenders and at the same time offensively inept. That's why we question him.

Fish would help everyone on d. For example, on a trap, he would help and then recover to his man and take his dribble away. He made Iverson shoot 40% from the field and 28% from 3 in the 2011 NBA Finals. He got his points at the line and continuing to shoot even when the shots weren't falling. He was always a chucker, but Fish made it much worse. Fish shot 37.4% from 3 for his career. He averaged 3 assists in 25 mins for his career.

You keep on bringing up Kidd, but he's 6-9 with a much more talented roster who everyone thought would be much better than NY. They also have had an easier schedule than NY has had.

You're making excuses for O'Quinn's terrible defense. It's not that he can't move laterally. He doesn't even know the stance. Lj's lateral movements are putrid, but at least he knows that's the stance. O'Quinn is clueless. Poking at the ball isn't physicality. His only physicality is knocking people down and rebounding, which doesn't excuse poor man-to-man defense. It doesn't matter who he's guarding, they all eat against him. He was reluctant to shoot when he was getting mins. I remember that being pointed out during a game by Breen and Clyde (who I don't respect because they're paid to brainwash you against NY and they do that very well) on a shot he should have taken and the camera showed Derek telling him it's ok to shoot. He's like Jose and Pablo in that regard and I had that gripe with him from the very beginning. I even said it on this board when he was getting mins before Arron got back when they were consistently losing. He's taking 4.5 shots in 13 mins in NY. He took 4.7 in 16 mins in Orlando. That's how he is. He also can't finish at the rim.

Thomas is a great defender. Players are shooting under 36% against him and being held over 7% below their average fg%. That's why he put him on Harden in the 4th when he was going off on everyone else and that was it for Harden. All he could do was flop his way to the line at that point. I hate Lance because he doesn't consistently make shots and is clumsy. You're just resorting to ad-hominem because you know nothing about him.

You know nothing about Arron either. Arron looks to shoot every time he gets the ball (averages 2 apg for his career) and he's very efficient. He played with 'Melo for 3 years, so in Denver, the offense ran through 'Melo. In Detroit, it ran through 10 other people with Rip being the main guy. His 1st year in Orlando, it ran through Tobias. 2nd year in Orlando, it ran through him, which is why his ppg went up. When he gets at least 11 shots, he gives you 15 or more ppg. Saying you have to defend Swish more than Arron is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Arron shoots 45% from the field and 38.5% from 3 for his career while Swish shoots 42% from the field and 37% from 3. Now you got amnesia that Swish is a chucker. As streaky as Swish is, D-Will is a better comparison because Arron is consistently efficient, Swish and D-Will are not.

Fish wasn't "figuring it out" when he was playing so many guys. He was keeping guys engaged because they'll be needed down the line, instead of letting them rot on the bench. He was trying to keep them ready. If the bench doesn't get it together after NY gets some time off (when the home stand ends), Fish will be relegated to "figuring it all out" mode because the guys who have gotten consistent mins have been trash lately and they have no one to blame but themselves. That 5 mins here and there only applies to Sasha. D-Will is averaging 12 mins per game. D-Will has never been consistent in his career.

Players are shooting 40% against Jose and 4.4% below their average fg%, which is very good. His size is a factor. He's doing better than KP is. He's a great leader, knows how to run the system, doesn't turn the ball over, and gets you a quality shot every possession. Sasha got mins because Arron was out and NY needed Grant and Gallo off the bench or it would be weak. Too bad both of them haven't been producing lately. In some games (Miami) they're absent on both ends.

NY is a defensive team. Elite, in fact. Going in to last night's game, they were 3rd in opp fg%, 1st in opp3fg%, 8th in fewest ppg allowed, 12th in opp ft%, 3rd in offensive rebounding, 11th in defensive rebounding, 3rd in overall rebounding, 9th in blks. That would not be the case if D-Will got a lot of mins and NY wouldn't even be in these games. That Miami blow-out would be a nightly affair. He won't even rebound. For all that slashing, he's only shooting 36% from the field. NY doesn't need their slashers to play more mins. They need the slashers they do have to make shots, defend, and rebound. They aren't. If they did, they'd play more. STAT didn't get a lot of mins in NY and got spot mins sometimes but he always made shots and rebounded. They need the shooters they do have to shoot and make shots. They aren't.

 

[HabeeNo]

We got the best title up

 

[The War Report]

Knicks had zero fast break pts.

We had 35 pts at half time, this shyt is unacceptable.

Ty will at least have a support system in former teammates in Affalo and Melo. Alot better than Harden and Dwight

Jose only passes the ball to Rolo at the top of the key (Thats where the offense turns into a shytshow) and can't turn the corner on P&R's

I'll take Ty, he at least can get in the paint and suck defenders in.

 

[The War Report]

I don't know if I want Ty Lawson for 4 years

Lawson only has one more year left on his contract.

 

[Victim of Racism]

All this is ridiculous, he doesn't even let people play through their mistakes. Only person that seems to be allowed to make mistakes and not get penalized is Thomas. I really liked him as a role player last year but the favoritism and him not really doing anything special is souring him for me:/

Then you've got the demolition of the bench mob and their confidence seemingly, the same crew that did well in preseason hasn't really played together these last 5+ games. Someone else mentioned it before, dwill or KOQ will make a mistake and look at the bench cause fisher got these dudes afraid that they gonna get benched for some nonsense. Grant's minutes getting cut but Vujacic getting more Let the rookie do his thing and learn. Then we've got people's minutes going up and down, playing 1 game then not playing the next 2-3 games. Once again like people have said there's no rhythm.

Certain people just don't need to be in the rotation at this point and only see minutes during end of the game blowouts. Vujacic especially, he hasn't produced for us and the stats don't lie. Calderon was getting shytted on early but he's cleaned his game up and stepped up to the plate. Amundson and Thomas as well, I like the hustle but they aren't players that need to be getting the minutes they are.

Just listen to Clyde during the games, he be dropping some real knowledge about the Knicks (also ball in general) and why they struggle at times and why they do well on runs. Him and Breen commented on the rotations last night. I remember Clyde said how Holzman showing confidence in him helped him elevate his game but meanwhile we got fisher not showing any in his guys and it's possible that's why some of the bench aren't doing well and I specifically remember dwill saying the confidence from the coaching helped his game in preseason and the beginning of the season.

I'm not gonna say it's 100% on fisher cause the guys need to go out and execute but it starts with the coach. If he ain't doing what needs to be done for the team he needs to reevaluate himself or get the
We got ourselves a nice squad this year and we need to right this ship quickly before we head down a bad path again.

So, if they played through their mistakes, NY would win more instead of lose more?

Thomas is a great defender. Players are shooting under 36% against him and being held over 7% below their average fg%. D-Will and O'Quinn are both liabilities on defense. That seems to be unacceptable when it comes to Jose (who is defending very well) and Sasha (who is defending poorly on the season but was good last night and doesn't get mins like that). Grant is playing more mins than Sasha.

Only people with inconsistent mins are Sasha and Lance (who you don't want playing), and defensive liabilities like D-Will (who won't even rebound) and O'Quinn.

Sasha held Dipo to 33% shooting last night. That stat? He scored 24 because he kept chucking and the refs just marched him to the line 15 times. Players are shooting 41% against Lou and being held to 4% below their average fg%.

KP has been shooting like trash all season and defending like trash for most of the season and his mins have increased. Grant has been shooting like trash all season and he still plays almost 20 mpg, which is nearly the same amount that he has played all season. D-Will still averages 12 mpg with that putrid defense and non-rebounding. O'Quinn still plays 13 mpg with that putrid defense. So, y'all, Breen, Clyde are lying when you accuse Fish of not giving players a chance. All the players have gotten a chance and y'all complain about that too. Y'all sure didn't want Jose to play through his bad shooting. Y'all were calling for him to be benched after game 1. Y'all didn't care if Fish destroyed Jose's confidence by benching him. So, which is it, give players a shot or not?

People need to stop making excuses for these players. Grant came to NY with a broken jumper. Fish didn't break his confidence, thereby breaking his jumper even more. D-Will came to NY as an inconsistent shooter (never having shot 45% in a season), who is trash on defense, and won't rebound. Fish didn't make him that way. O'Quinn came to NY a trash defender. Players need to have confidence in themselves from the work they put in. Put in the work and you will be good. Do you know how much work it takes for 'Melo to shoot the way he does? Same for Jose and Arron. Waiters has a lot of confidence, but he's streaky. He needs to put in more work. Tim Hardaway Jr is the same way.

You know what cleaned up Jose's act, Fish's coaching. After 5 games of Jose shooting like trash, Fish cut his mins to 16. The next game (against the Lake Show), Jose found his shot and never looked back.

Breen and Clyde are paid to brainwash people against NY and keep the complaints against Fish going because of Fish's color, even with lies about not giving players a chance. No one was complaining about OKC's coach with that putrid defense over there that was costing them games. Their offense is helping them win. They said Scotty got the raw deal, despite only 1 Finals appearance and no ch'ip with a stacked team for several years.

Fish's "rotations" has a new team (that is still battling the effects of injury and missed time on the court) playing elite defense and a .500 record (including on the road) through a brutal schedule against great teams. I don't see any Breens or Clydes giving him credit for that. The coach is not making Gallo, Arron, KP, Grant, and D-Will miss shots. STAT didn't get a lot of mins in NY and got spot mins sometimes but he always made shots and rebounded. They need the shooters they do have to shoot and make shots. They aren't. That has been the case all season and has cost them 8 games. They were trying to burn clock too early and pass to 'Melo for a miracle bailout at the end of the shot clock against the coach's wishes. He told them to stop. I hope they learned.

 

[DPresidential]

She says KP has been defending "like trash".

I'm done.

 

[Victim of Racism]

She says KP has been defending "like trash".

I'm done.

For most of the season, players were shooting nearly 45% against him, which is trash defense, and Fish didn't yank him. Going in to last night's game, it was 43%, which is average. Right now, it's 42%, which is good. He's also been switching on guards and giving up madd buckets in the 4th. He did that just last night.

 

[A.V.]

Y'all corny as shyt with all this arguing

 

[ThaBronxBully]

Can Zema Explain Clyde And Walt Being "Paid To Brainwash People Against NY"?

You've Said This 3 Times Within 1 Page Of Replies, I'm Interested In What The Agenda Is

We All Know How Breen Can Be But He Was A Knicks Fan Before You Shot Out Ya Daddys Nuts, Please Explain This Brainwashing

 

[DPresidential]

Can Zema Explain Clyde And Walt Being "Paid To Brainwash People Against NY"?

You've Said This 3 Times Within 1 Page Of Replies, I'm Interested In What The Agenda Is

We All Know How Breen Can Be But l He Was A Knicks Fan Before You Shot Out Ya Daddys Nuts, Please Explain This Brainwashing

Honestly, of.all of the blasphemy...


The statements about Clyde is down right insane or treasonous.

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

Can Zema Explain Clyde And Walt Being "Paid To Brainwash People Against NY"?

You've Said This 3 Times Within 1 Page Of Replies, I'm Interested In What The Agenda Is

We All Know How Breen Can Be But He Was A Knicks Fan Before You Shot Out Ya Daddys Nuts, Please Explain This Brainwashing

It's come to the point that I just scroll past her post breh but when I saw that I was like

Clyde and breen are the most unbiased announcers and they not on no homer shyt like some of the announcers I've seen around the league( Cavs) . How u gon claim Clyde would brainwash people?! Be from LA and think you know more about the Knicks than a Knicks fan from NY brehs.

 

[Miles Davis]

Y'all corny as shyt with all this arguing

I ain't arguing breh, I'm trying to be more objective like @storyteller

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

For most of the season, players were shooting nearly 45% against him, which is trash defense. It keeps going up and down. Going in to last night's game, it was 43%, which is average. Right now, it's 42%, which is good. He's also been switching on guards and giving up madd buckets in the 4th. He did that just last night.

Defense trash

He's had 6,2,7 blocks in the past 7 games

 

[Victim of Racism]

Defense trash

He's had 6,2,7 blocks in the past 7 games

Blocks (like rebounds and steals) don't make you a defender. Rolo averages 1.2 bpg and people are shooting 47.4% against him because he rarely gets a hand up. He just stands there and watch his opponents shoot the ball in as if his height alone is supposed to intimidate them.