Put Some Hornacek On Our Game: 2016 New York Knicks Offseason Thread

No_bammer_weed

✌️ Coli. Wish y’all the best of luck. One
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Noah by himself is fine. Rose by himself is fine. Gordon by himself is fine. But when you take this all-eggs-in-one-basket approach with THREE players who're in a moribund state to partner your franchise player who has his fair share of health concerns, you're not exactly putting yourself in the best position you possibly can to win (especially with the physical demands of an up-tempo offense). Not only do you handcuff your hopes to a minute % that all these players will remain relatively healthy and develop chemistry (prep and ready for the playoffs) in a vacuum, but you also have to make sure there's an adequate second unit in place to balance out their minutes so that they can stay healthy and remain effective, and take over if any of them go down.

But lets put this probability scale in its proper frame and context.

Measure these probabilities versus entering the season with a backcourt of grant, calderon, and lopez as your starting center. Whats the probability that a 24 year old mediocre talent in grant, who shot 22% from 3 and below 40% overall, wakes up and becomes an All-star? Whats the probability that Calderon reverses the clock and becomes a great player again? Whats the probability that lopez plays like anything more than the average journeyman center he's been his whole career?

Thats the reality of what we were facing. Now if we were mortgaging our future and trading first round picks and players like KP for Rose/Noah/etc then I could see your point. But the known quantity we were heading into the season with w/o major moves was another season of meaningless basketball.

And with that what are the probabilities that a guaranteed losing season would be a net positive? What kind of draft selection would we secure with Melo and KP playing this year? Would a slot somewhere in the 7-13 lottery position be an effective payoff for yet another wasted knick season? Whats the probability of selecting a franchise cornerstone? Do we really want to become the sacramento kings and win 25-35 games and get an okayish prospect every year? For what? Draft is important, but im not a draft fetish guy.

Rose and Noah come with risk, but everything does. Its a reasonable expectation that a 27 and 31 year old can shake off injury plagued years, versus hoping that players like Grant and Lopez can become players they never were and have little hope to no hope of ever being.

Im not a cat that considers inactivity to be a better than failure. I'd rather the knicks make calculated bold moves like this, versus resign ourselves to playing loser ball with the hope that ping pong balls will bounce our way in April.
 

Mr. Jack Napier

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Successful basketball isn't played like that anymore. In order to compete at the highest level we need to play Melo at the 4.

Fam, Melo doesn't like playing the 4, and KP isn't strong enough to play the 5. Golden State done got people falling in love with analytics & playing with no set positions.

Lebron was drafted by Cleveland and would not have come back had that not been the case, but sure I'll give you that for arguments sake. When you look at the 18 NBA champions in the post-Jordan era you have the 3 Miami teams, the Pistons, the Boston Celtics, Mavs and Cavs. The other champions were built through the draft. The idea that building through the draft likely leads to the 76ers current situation is stupid, as the Knicks are more at risk of their ceiling being the treadmill Hawks even under the best circumstances if they stick with the anti-draft/youth mindset.

What other team that won, was built through the draft? The Spurs? They got lucky with Duncan. Parker & Splitter were late 1st round picks, Ginobili a 2nd round pick, and they traded for Kawhi.
 

ogc163

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Fam, Melo doesn't like playing the 4, and KP isn't strong enough to play the 5. Golden State done got people falling in love with analytics & playing with no set positions.



What other team that won, was built through the draft? The Spurs? They got lucky with Duncan. Parker & Splitter were late 1st round picks, Ginobili a 2nd round pick, and they traded for Kawhi.

The Lakers, GSW, as I had already written. They traded for Kawhi through the draft he never suited up for the Pacers that is equivalent of being drafted by them. It does not matter that they were late picks fact is they were chosen in the draft. Just like it does not matter that Draymond Green was a late pick either.
 

Mr. Jack Napier

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The Lakers, GSW, as I had already written. They traded for Kawhi through the draft he never suited up for the Pacers that is equivalent of being drafted by them. It does not matter that they were late picks fact is they were chosen in the draft. Just like it does not matter that Draymond Green was a late pick either.

Lakers traded for both Odom & Gasol. Try again.

Okay then, so you don't necessarily have to tank to get a good pick. You have to 1) do your research 2) have a little bit of luck. Getting a top 3/4 pick doesn't guarantee a all-star/superstar talent. Do guys like Kwame Brown, Michael Olowokandi, Andrea Bargnani, Anthony Bennett ring a bell?
 

DPresidential

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But lets put this probability scale in its proper frame and context.

Measure these probabilities versus entering the season with a backcourt of grant, calderon, and lopez as your starting center. Whats the probability that a 24 year old mediocre talent in grant, who shot 22% from 3 and below 40% overall, wakes up and becomes an All-star? Whats the probability that Calderon reverses the clock and becomes a great player again? Whats the probability that lopez plays like anything more than the average journeyman center he's been his whole career?

Thats the reality of what we were facing. Now if we were mortgaging our future and trading first round picks and players like KP for Rose/Noah/etc then I could see your point. But the known quantity we were heading into the season with w/o major moves was another season of meaningless basketball.

And with that what are the probabilities that a guaranteed losing season would be a net positive? What kind of draft selection would we secure with Melo and KP playing this year? Would a slot somewhere in the 7-13 lottery position be an effective payoff for yet another wasted knick season? Whats the probability of selecting a franchise cornerstone? Do we really want to become the sacramento kings and win 25-35 games and get an okayish prospect every year? For what? Draft is important, but im not a draft fetish guy.

Rose and Noah come with risk, but everything does. Its a reasonable expectation that a 27 and 31 year old can shake off injury plagued years, versus hoping that players like Grant and Lopez can become players they never were and have little hope to no hope of ever being.

Im not a cat that considers inactivity to be a better than failure. I'd rather the knicks make calculated bold moves like this, versus resign ourselves to playing loser ball with the hope that ping pong balls will bounce our way in April.
This is what I needed.

I wish someone could send this to Stephen A Smith.

The NY name is not exciting anymore.

Considering what Bammer says above and where we were last year...we are making moonshine where fun loving alcohol has been figuratively prohibited in NY.

I will say this... This will cut either way. Either we crash and burn, injury wise, and get in the lottery...

Or...


Rose & Noah play 65+ and we bring excitement back to the Garden. :wow:
 

tremonthustler1

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Too much negativity going on with some of y'all. We get enough hate from other Stan groups scrutinizing every move we make and now some of you are joining in too?:patrice:

We've had 1 good season since I graduated high school. Thats probably longer than some of you have been Knicks fans. So if you can't see this shyt through then ride the fukk out:camby:
1>0

:sadcam:

I'll wait til my squad hits the salary floor before I clown y'all
 

ogc163

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Lakers traded for both Odom & Gasol. Try again.

Okay then, so you don't necessarily have to tank to get a good pick. You have to 1) do your research 2) have a little bit of luck. Getting a top 3/4 pick doesn't guarantee a all-star/superstar talent. Do guys like Kwame Brown, Michael Olowokandi, Andrea Bargnani, Anthony Bennett ring a bell?

Yeah, so you gonna fail to mention Kobe and Bynum?:rudy: Getting a top pick doesn't guarantee an all-star talent I have never stated it does, but neither does focusing on free agency as is evidenced by the Knicks being rejected by all-star talent for the better part of the last decade.
 

RickyGQ

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Fam, Melo doesn't like playing the 4, and KP isn't strong enough to play the 5. Golden State done got people falling in love with analytics & playing with no set positions.

It's not just the Warriors. This playoffs we watched Aldridge and Tristan Thompson play the 5 and watched Serge Ibaka become irrelevant. I'm not saying we don't need a center at all, I'm saying we have more pressing needs than center IMO. I'd rather commit 10-12 mill to that position than 18.
 

BAMBA

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If we come out of all this with just Noah @ 18 mill per year...

:snoop:
 
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