Put Some Hornacek On Our Game: 2016 New York Knicks Offseason Thread

[Squirrel from Meteor Man]

What does their record have to do with anything?

A big is to clean up messes all the time, just like a guard is to keep their man in front at all times. Guards and bigs are paid to do their jobs at all times. That's like saying a big is to rebound only sometimes.

And of course Jose isn't a better defender than Grant and Gallow. Just like those guys aren't better shooters than Jose. The point was, all 3 defended horribly last night and evenly so, but only 1 of the 3 got called out for it.

Jose doesn't need to be benched. They need his shooting, threat to shoot, leadership, passing, and knowledge of the Triangle on the floor.

Too bad no one will apply this to Gallo and Grant who got eaten by those guards. They just apply it to Jose and Sasha. Gallow was the only guard who gave up buckets to Shroder.

A big's job is not to clean up a guard's mess all the time. Yes, they protect the rim but that's different from constantly having to leave their own man because a guard can't move well enough laterally to keep his man from scoring. The Hawks guards were literally at the rim before bigs could see what was happening. That goes for all of the guards. The difference is Grant and Gallow will/can get better and Calderon and Vujacic won't/can't. It's like training a new employee versus admonishing an old employee who keeps making the same mistakes.

Calderon is good in spots, but he is not an NBA starting point guard at this point of his career. Neither are Grant or Galloway but they will improve while Calderon is only gonna get worse. There aren't any slow, non athletic starting point guards in the league. Every night is going to be a torture rack for Calderon.

 

[Victim of Racism]

I see you breh.... Low key spitting game

@KnickstapeCity is definitely my dude, but he's losing that battle for 3 reasons:

1.) He refers to women as female dogs. I'm not one of those women who likes to be called a dog.
2.) He has a girl.
3.) I'm talking to someone.

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

Not a 'Melo fan. I'm a fan on the sport and I'm sorry to break it to a big Kris fan like yourself, but Kris played like trash on both ends. Not sure why this rook, who is allowed to play and start, is teflon. If I'm a 'Melo fan, who can admit that 'Melo played like trash on both ends, what does that make you, who can't find it in yourself to admit the same about Kris?!

He's not teflon, but people are going to be more lenient on him & Grant because their rookies and learning the NBA game.

And as people have been saying before, Vujacic & Calderon should NEVER be on the court together, let alone be starting. I'd rather have Galloway & Vujacic start, bring Grant off the bench to keep the bench squad energized and on point.

 

[Apollo Kid]

Should've been showed on TNT.

If they changed the music to this

 

[KillSpray]

Lot of good analysis in here, totally agree with the lineup issues. The lineups are so bizarre that I had to give the coaching staff the benefit of the doubt that there's something they're trying to impart on the players, maybe cause they have so many young guys, I don't know. But there's got to be some Jedi Zen psychology behind these lineups, and having been a big fan of Phil and his books, I wouldn't put this by a coaching staff of Phil disciples.

It's gonna be a hard group to analyze sometimes because I expect them to coach beyond X's and O's and play mind games with players.

 

[Victim of Racism]

A big's job is not to clean up a guard's mess all the time. Yes, they protect the rim but that's different from constantly having to leave their own man because a guard can't move well enough laterally to keep his man from scoring. The Hawks guards were literally at the rim before bigs could see what was happening. That goes for all of the guards. The difference is Grant and Gallow will/can get better and Calderon and Vujacic won't/can't. It's like training a new employee versus admonishing an old employee who keeps making the same mistakes.

Calderon is good in spots, but he is not an NBA starting point guard at this point of his career. Neither are Grant or Galloway but they will improve while Calderon is only gonna get worse. There aren't any slow, non athletic starting point guards in the league. Every night is going to be a torture rack for Calderon.

Most bigs can leave their man because most bigs can't shoot, nor can most post up. What is their job when their man can shoot and they're just standing under the rim? To grab some rebounds and block some shots?

What is Grant and Gallo getting better gonna do for last night and the rest of the season? They're gonna get torched until they get better. And how can you get "worse" than getting beaten? You either get beaten or you don't.

 

[KillSpray]

Most bigs can leave their man because most bigs can't shoot, nor can most post up. What is their job when their man can shoot and they're just standing under the rim? To grab some rebounds and block some shots?

What is Grant and Gallo getting better gonna do for last night and the rest of the season? They're gonna get torched until they get better. And how can you get "worse" than getting beaten? You either get beaten or you don't.

I think you're assuming coaching is just an X's and O's endeavor, and not taking enough into account the player psychology that will factor huge into performance.

 

[Victim of Racism]

He's not teflon, but people are going to be more lenient on him & Grant because their rookies and learning the NBA game.

And as people have been saying before, Vujacic & Calderon should NEVER be on the court together, let alone be starting. I'd rather have Galloway & Vujacic start, bring Grant off the bench to keep the bench squad energized and on point.

Nah, they're teflon. You can't say anything about them or you're being impatient or lacking compassion. Jose and Sasha don't get leniency for being good passers, shooters, leaders, knowledgeable of the Triangle, and old. 'Melo doesn't get leniency for being hurt. Fish doesn't get leniency for being a 2nd year coach and not really having a rookie year because he was asked to throw that rookie year to draft KP. If they're playing, they deserve critique. If they're too rook for critique, then Fish shouldn't play them. Being a reason a team is losing games isn't ok because someone is a rook.

 

[Squirrel from Meteor Man]

Most bigs can leave their man because most bigs can't shoot, nor can most post up. What is their job when their man can shoot and they're just standing under the rim? To grab some rebounds and block some shots?

What is Grant and Gallo getting better gonna do for last night and the rest of the season? They're gonna get torched until they get better. And how can you get "worse" than getting beaten? You either get beaten or you don't.

Grant and Gallow will not get torched the rest of the season. They are capable of getting stops. The Hawks were on a mission last night and blitzed the entire Knicks team. Calderon is not capable of stopping, hell even slowing down, good point guards. That's a fact.

If Calderon starts against John Wall Saturday, you will see how much worse it can get.

 

[I.V.]

I don't mind KP starting, but I'd like to see him play more minutes with the backups. He plays better with them, specifically with grant and o'quinn, who create a lot more movement.

Let's night was a ass whipping. Porzingis looked like he was pressing, so did KOQ -- we had Sasha on Kover which was a disaster, Calderon can't guard a parking space. Rotations looked brutal, they ran doubles at grant and he didn't know what to do... Dwill took some godawful shots... the only one that looked decent last night was Galloway and Sideshow.

Porzingis is going to have to learn how to rotate quickly, and be in position to use his length. But man, him catching and finishing that pass, on his cut off the ball was something else.

1-1, gotta keep moving forward. There are going to be some ugly games.

 

[Victim of Racism]

I think you're assuming coaching is just an X's and O's endeavor, and not taking enough into account the player psychology that will factor huge into performance.

I don't have a problem with the lineups (even though I can't stand Lance and I know he's a bigger and stronger defender than Cleanthony and they need to play Cleanthony when they want to play fast like last night). They blew the bucks out with that lineup. Now that they couldn't win on a back-to-back with refs not allowing NY to defend the Hawks, it's a problem. My issue is that some get criticized, even for made up stuff, while others are teflon. My view is blame them all. If Fish switched it, people would blame the losses on the bench being too weak. That entire starting line up needs to be held accountable. Not just all but KP and Rolo. 'Melo is shooting and rebounding like trash (because he's hurt). Jose and Sasha are defending like trash (because they're old). KP is shooting, passing, rebounding, and defending the rim like trash (because he's a rook). Rolo is rebounding and defending the rim like trash (because he's hurt). It's really as simple as that.

 

[Squirrel from Meteor Man]

Being rusty from time off and injury, being a rookie, and being inexperienced are fixable issues. Being old is not. That's where the difference in argument lies.

 

[Reid2Achieve]

Fisher see's a lot of himself in Calderon

A trangle offense guard who doesn't turn it over, can hit the 3, flop to free throws, and take charges

 

[Victim of Racism]

Grant and Gallow will not get torched the rest of the season. They are capable of getting stops. The Hawks were on a mission last night and blitzed the entire Knicks team. Calderon is not capable of stopping, hell even slowing down, good point guards. That's a fact.

If Calderon starts against John Wall Saturday, you will see how much worse it can get.

Gallo and grant can get stops, but not against guards like Teague and Wall. Just like KP can't guard guy with great footwork like Jefferson. Defense has always been a weakness for Grant. His strength is in his passing. Plus, this was a back-to-back with touch and phantom fouls being called on Jose and Sasha. On all of the Knicks.

 

[Victim of Racism]

Being rusty from time off and injury, being a rookie, and being inexperienced are fixable issues. Being old is not. That's where the difference in argument lies.

None of those fixable issues will be fixed this year. So, where do we go from here?