Might as well added on that he's looking to play for a playoff contender in a warm climate
Put Some Hornacek On Our Game: 2016 New York Knicks Offseason Thread
- Thread starter Typical Knicks Fan
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Might as well added on that he's looking to play for a playoff contender in a warm climate
When was Afflalo ever considered elite? 
Yeah, dude is gone. Not a major loss either.
Yeah, dude is gone. Not a major loss either.
Wargames
One Of The Last Real Ones To Do It
If AA is gone good. 
We can use that cap space.
We can use that cap space.
tremonthustler1
aka bx_representer
Maccabi Tel Aviv it is then
Youhadasparkwhenustarted
Superstar
What a weird, up and down season, it was fun though Knicks fam
Time to move on and try and leave Calderon, Vujacic, Seraphin, Afflalo, and Rambis in the past
I get the feeling Vujacic is gonna stick though
Time to move on and try and leave Calderon, Vujacic, Seraphin, Afflalo, and Rambis in the past
I get the feeling Vujacic is gonna stick though
Vujacic did play better than Afflalo's bum ass down the stretch though 
Looking at the team salary: Seraphin, Amundson, Lance Thomas, Vujacic, Early are all free agents. Galloway has a team option, and Afflalo & DWill both have player options.
What a weird, up and down season, it was fun though Knicks fam
Time to move on and try and leave Calderon, Vujacic, Seraphin, Afflalo, and Rambis in the past
I get the feeling Vujacic is gonna stick though
Vujacic did play better than Afflalo's bum ass down the stretch though
They're going to re-sign this clown.
lol @ Melo practically demanding to be part of the free agent decision-making this summer.
didn't you say you want to go to Brazil for the Olympics too? won't you be tied up with that preparation and all anyway?
didn't you say you want to go to Brazil for the Olympics too? won't you be tied up with that preparation and all anyway?
storyteller
Veteran
Season's over, so it's time to look at the roster and grade out performances.
The vets:
Melo: A- ... Melo really embraced leadership and ball movement this season in a way that he hasn't in the past. He was caught by the cameras talking to young guys heading into time outs, he actually passed up last second shots to open players on occasions and he took initiative to get Grant some damned minutes. He'd get an A or better, but his first few months of the season were filled with awful shooting. That's partially expected though, the guy was coming off of knee surgery and he's always been a slow starter. From January on he shot 45% from the field and kept up production everywhere else though. He posted the second highest rebound total of his career, a career high in assists and played arguably the best defense of his career which offset a dip in scoring and FGA's. His post new year numbers were enough to make an argument that he has something left in the tank and his leadership actually seemed valuable to the young guys (go back and read quotes from KP, Grant and even Tony Wroten). As more coaches names drop as options, he's also gotten more vocal about wanting input...and my suspicion is that it's because he wants the team to look at Thibs...which would make this an A because yall know what I think Thibs.
RoLo: A ... He took months to figure out the system, but that's actually faster than implied by most conversations about the triangle. His rebound total of 7.3 doesn't look great, but consider he only played 27 mins a game and that his rebound rate was the highest it's been; then compound that with the fact that KP's rebound splits looked better with him out there...he was a great inside presence. He flashed post footwork that is way more advanced than I'd originally though; his hookshot isn't pretty but it's effective as hell and defensively even in a less effective year you could recognize his impact. The guy is on a great value contract and provides the things you want from a true center. Really nice season and one of the best value contracts on the team.
AA: C- ...Was inconsistent and streaky shooting all year, which hurts when the guy struggled defensively, didn't pass well and just didn't offer impact anywhere else. He came to be a second scorer and played like a 6th man, but when he got put into that position he pouted and seemed to crash mentally. He still gets better than a D just off the early season play he provided, there was a portion of the season where he was a real second option and we were a competitive team in that span. His late season nonsense and overall performance leaves a lot to complain about. It's nice that he's all but sure to opt out though. 18 million jumps to 26 million in cap space because he's too stubborn to realize that he's not a good enough defender to start these days.
Jose: C- ....I'm tempted to give him a C because it's not his fault that the coaches force fed us this guy even when he was criminally overmatched on the defensive end. We're talking the backcourt equivalent of Amare Stoudamire on the defensive end. His complete inability to drive combined with his refusal to attack meant low TO's on his stat line but a ton of ugly shots and shot clock issues for the overall offense. His shooting was as advertised though, dude can really shoot when he actually pulls the trigger. He'd be a serviceable bottom of the rotation guy who can come in, knock down some shots without forcing things and he can stay in front of weaker SG's or non-slashers; but he was a starter playing starter minutes here. Props on playing 72 games though. 3 of his last 4 seasons have been mostly healthy, so that's something if I'm tryna give him some love.
The Youth (aka 90's babies):
KP: A ... This kid was a revelation, flat out. He came in looking too thin to handle a lot of minutes and known to be a raw commodity. It turned out that his defensive play was fairly advanced; he's got incredible timing which means he's a great shotblocker as well as rebounder and he uses his length incredibly well everywhere there. Offensively, he's a work in progress but every facet is promising. In the post he had a mini-dream shake move that's similar to Melo's and if he got baseline post position close, he was fairly effective on turn arounds. His jumper was butter in midrange and solid from long range. By the latter part of the season, his passing was really looking strong too. He needs to work on decision making though which should improve his efficiency some. His handle could use improvement as well, since he can drag bigs out to the arc but really only takes advantage off the dribble when they have to rush over from defending him at too much distance. Adding strength to his base will really help on both ends as he didn't do great battling for position. He's already a two way player, his defense is impressive and both jumper and post play can improve while already being effective.
Grant: B- ...Tough to grade him because his season was less about overall performance and more about growth. Through January he shot 35% from the field and 15% from three. From Feb. on he shot 46% from the field and 29% from three. In what's obviously a low sample size but still promising, his 6 game run in April he shot 49% from the field 37% from three and averaged a 3 point make per game...he probably should get rookie of the month for that one if they still award it. His strengths were steady all year, he can get into the paint with frequency and he's a heads up slasher which means kick outs are always a threat. His finishing improved with time, but can always be improved. He was a huge victim of inconsistent playing time, short hooks and being a PnR point learning a non-PnR system. His numbers are weak, but focusing on growth...I really liked that his two biggest weaknesses were improved upon greatly. One...shooting, obviously and Two...he habitually picked up his dribble a LOT, which got him in trouble and drained the clock. He seriously improved on that, keeping his dribble regardless of the situation and I believe that led to more effectiveness all over the floor. The promise is there. Tough season but development and growth score him a C+ or B-
Galloway: C- ...Started the season like gangbusters. He was our best bench player period at the jump, shooting well and outplaying every guard on the roster. But his play took a step back and never recovered. His jumper fell off like he went through a Landry Fields offseason training regiment. His defense which was really impressive as a rookie tailed down to solid but inconsistent. Even his decision making tripped up a bit mainly in open court breaks (think about LG on a break...I bet more people recalled a charging foul than a highlight finish). I don't know if it was a wall from his first full nba season, mental issues or something else but he regressed. The good news is that he's still showing promise in spurts and played himself to likely be a cheap re-sign. The bad news is that he's gone from a feel good story to a risky re-sign if the price is driven up by the new cap.
D-Will: B ... in just 18 mpg he was a point shy of double digits, 4 boards a game and shot 45% from the field. His ability to draw fouls was flat out impressive. Defensively he was still inconsistent but he had less brain farts than previous seasons but was still a victim to being overmatched as a tweener against superior offensive players at either F position. He's a streaky guy, but toward the end of the season he was really becoming pretty reliable. Overall though, at his price tag he gave more than he was being paid imo. 4 mili is really cheap for what wound up being a bench scorer and solid spot start guy.
Early: Inc ... Weird year for the kid that I won't grade because it seems unfair. His preseason was really promising. He's a very fluid athlete, has a jumper that can be developed and his motor is really impressive. He has everything to be a solid three and D player. However, to start the season he took a back seat to any veteran available. Then he got shot in the knee cap during a robbery. He came back and still flashed the motor from before but had only a handful of games where his effort was nice but the rust was evident. I'd love him back cheap as a 15th man with upside. You don't see players with that much athleticism and that high of a motor, but he has to develop the skills and mental portion around that to ever be more than a last guy in the game.
KOQ: C- ... He just makes the cut and I think that's fair because he played limited minutes in the past. Unfortunately, he was inconsistent as a player and never saw consistent minutes either because of that or as a key cause for the inconsistency. In the same quarter he would flash great passing, impressive board work and a decent jumper; but also flash head scratching decision making, poor instincts and forced shots from outside of his range. He's one of those "if he ever puts it all together" guys, but this is the fourth season we're saying that. There's reason to be hopeful and reason to be doubtful about him, but at the end of day he's cheap enough to be a third C anyway at least.
The Role Players:
Lance: B+ ... Signed slightly more than the minimum and seemed like a nice role player to fill out the bench; but was thrust into a much bigger role as first man off the bench. His motor is excellent, defense is above average and he can make teams pay that leave him open. However, his hands are frustratingly bad, rebounding and passing are near non-existent and he tried to do too much (or was being asked to do too much). He deserves props for how much he developed in one offseason and considering his contract he contributed WAY more than expected. He was the best bench player in a lot of games and provided energy that was lacking from most of the roster. That said, he's a 15 mpg guy imho since he can only hit wide open looks; doesn't pass well and is a poor rebounder. Closing the season out with knee issues makes him a "let's just let him sign elsewhere" guy to me unless he takes a similar contract to this season...doubtful.
Sasha: D- ... You're probably thinking "wtf no F!?" But he had a hot streak to close the season and actually did provide energy that was missing since Lance got hurt. So he gets a D- instead. Thanks for the effort guy, may you never wear a Knicks jersey again.
Sweet Lou: D- ...Kinda similar to Sasha. I can appreciate the effort but if you're good play is 1 in every 10-12 games...then thanks for showing up but let's not do this again.
Seraphin: D- ...I'd feel bad giving him an F. I actually thought he showed more defensive effort than usual. His post game was good once every few games out, but he forced it regardless of effectiveness. Jumper was mostly ugly. Even with effort, defense was pretty weak.
The Coaches:
Fisher: F ...After one and a half season he still had no clue how to put together a rotation, something that even kids playing NBA 2K figure out after a while playing the association mode. Multiple players complained about communication issues, Melo just mentioned mixed signals as well, the youth mainly regressed under him and he even managed to have off the court drama follow him.
Rambis: F+ ...Everything bad about Fisher right to off the court drama from catching twitter viruses...but the fact that he established a rotation at all means I'll let him have a miniscule edge over Fisher. Both guys sucked, both deserved F's but for my money Fisher was a worse coach. Seriously...Rambis set a rotation that was frustrating because of Grant's situation, but at least players got into a rhythm playing.
The GM:
???: Inc ... If a team flounders and the GM never gets so much as brought up by the press...does that GM deserve to be named and graded?
President:
Phil: C ... RoLo, KP, Grant all good pick ups. The Wroten move is a clever play with limited options. Willy on the way isn't a bad way to start an offseason. We're also in a position to have 18 million of cap space but with signs pointing to opt outs, he maybe have 30 million to work with instead. Most refreshing though only because we're Knicks fans, we're looking at all our first round picks for the first time in an era. That said, AA crashed by the halfway point, the coach needed to be fired midseason, Sasha sucked, KS coulda been Lin or Shved and even two promising guys in Galloway and KOQ regressed. It was a mixed bag season, but thanks to his positioning with contracts and picks; this will be the offseason I believe his legacy is decided with the Knicks. His coaching selection is the biggest factor, but mass cap space and a ton of young players to develop will also play a big role. Love him or hate him, this offseason will be eventful.
The vets:
Melo: A- ... Melo really embraced leadership and ball movement this season in a way that he hasn't in the past. He was caught by the cameras talking to young guys heading into time outs, he actually passed up last second shots to open players on occasions and he took initiative to get Grant some damned minutes. He'd get an A or better, but his first few months of the season were filled with awful shooting. That's partially expected though, the guy was coming off of knee surgery and he's always been a slow starter. From January on he shot 45% from the field and kept up production everywhere else though. He posted the second highest rebound total of his career, a career high in assists and played arguably the best defense of his career which offset a dip in scoring and FGA's. His post new year numbers were enough to make an argument that he has something left in the tank and his leadership actually seemed valuable to the young guys (go back and read quotes from KP, Grant and even Tony Wroten). As more coaches names drop as options, he's also gotten more vocal about wanting input...and my suspicion is that it's because he wants the team to look at Thibs...which would make this an A because yall know what I think Thibs.
RoLo: A ... He took months to figure out the system, but that's actually faster than implied by most conversations about the triangle. His rebound total of 7.3 doesn't look great, but consider he only played 27 mins a game and that his rebound rate was the highest it's been; then compound that with the fact that KP's rebound splits looked better with him out there...he was a great inside presence. He flashed post footwork that is way more advanced than I'd originally though; his hookshot isn't pretty but it's effective as hell and defensively even in a less effective year you could recognize his impact. The guy is on a great value contract and provides the things you want from a true center. Really nice season and one of the best value contracts on the team.
AA: C- ...Was inconsistent and streaky shooting all year, which hurts when the guy struggled defensively, didn't pass well and just didn't offer impact anywhere else. He came to be a second scorer and played like a 6th man, but when he got put into that position he pouted and seemed to crash mentally. He still gets better than a D just off the early season play he provided, there was a portion of the season where he was a real second option and we were a competitive team in that span. His late season nonsense and overall performance leaves a lot to complain about. It's nice that he's all but sure to opt out though. 18 million jumps to 26 million in cap space because he's too stubborn to realize that he's not a good enough defender to start these days.
Jose: C- ....I'm tempted to give him a C because it's not his fault that the coaches force fed us this guy even when he was criminally overmatched on the defensive end. We're talking the backcourt equivalent of Amare Stoudamire on the defensive end. His complete inability to drive combined with his refusal to attack meant low TO's on his stat line but a ton of ugly shots and shot clock issues for the overall offense. His shooting was as advertised though, dude can really shoot when he actually pulls the trigger. He'd be a serviceable bottom of the rotation guy who can come in, knock down some shots without forcing things and he can stay in front of weaker SG's or non-slashers; but he was a starter playing starter minutes here. Props on playing 72 games though. 3 of his last 4 seasons have been mostly healthy, so that's something if I'm tryna give him some love.
The Youth (aka 90's babies):
KP: A ... This kid was a revelation, flat out. He came in looking too thin to handle a lot of minutes and known to be a raw commodity. It turned out that his defensive play was fairly advanced; he's got incredible timing which means he's a great shotblocker as well as rebounder and he uses his length incredibly well everywhere there. Offensively, he's a work in progress but every facet is promising. In the post he had a mini-dream shake move that's similar to Melo's and if he got baseline post position close, he was fairly effective on turn arounds. His jumper was butter in midrange and solid from long range. By the latter part of the season, his passing was really looking strong too. He needs to work on decision making though which should improve his efficiency some. His handle could use improvement as well, since he can drag bigs out to the arc but really only takes advantage off the dribble when they have to rush over from defending him at too much distance. Adding strength to his base will really help on both ends as he didn't do great battling for position. He's already a two way player, his defense is impressive and both jumper and post play can improve while already being effective.
Grant: B- ...Tough to grade him because his season was less about overall performance and more about growth. Through January he shot 35% from the field and 15% from three. From Feb. on he shot 46% from the field and 29% from three. In what's obviously a low sample size but still promising, his 6 game run in April he shot 49% from the field 37% from three and averaged a 3 point make per game...he probably should get rookie of the month for that one if they still award it. His strengths were steady all year, he can get into the paint with frequency and he's a heads up slasher which means kick outs are always a threat. His finishing improved with time, but can always be improved. He was a huge victim of inconsistent playing time, short hooks and being a PnR point learning a non-PnR system. His numbers are weak, but focusing on growth...I really liked that his two biggest weaknesses were improved upon greatly. One...shooting, obviously and Two...he habitually picked up his dribble a LOT, which got him in trouble and drained the clock. He seriously improved on that, keeping his dribble regardless of the situation and I believe that led to more effectiveness all over the floor. The promise is there. Tough season but development and growth score him a C+ or B-
Galloway: C- ...Started the season like gangbusters. He was our best bench player period at the jump, shooting well and outplaying every guard on the roster. But his play took a step back and never recovered. His jumper fell off like he went through a Landry Fields offseason training regiment. His defense which was really impressive as a rookie tailed down to solid but inconsistent. Even his decision making tripped up a bit mainly in open court breaks (think about LG on a break...I bet more people recalled a charging foul than a highlight finish). I don't know if it was a wall from his first full nba season, mental issues or something else but he regressed. The good news is that he's still showing promise in spurts and played himself to likely be a cheap re-sign. The bad news is that he's gone from a feel good story to a risky re-sign if the price is driven up by the new cap.
D-Will: B ... in just 18 mpg he was a point shy of double digits, 4 boards a game and shot 45% from the field. His ability to draw fouls was flat out impressive. Defensively he was still inconsistent but he had less brain farts than previous seasons but was still a victim to being overmatched as a tweener against superior offensive players at either F position. He's a streaky guy, but toward the end of the season he was really becoming pretty reliable. Overall though, at his price tag he gave more than he was being paid imo. 4 mili is really cheap for what wound up being a bench scorer and solid spot start guy.
Early: Inc ... Weird year for the kid that I won't grade because it seems unfair. His preseason was really promising. He's a very fluid athlete, has a jumper that can be developed and his motor is really impressive. He has everything to be a solid three and D player. However, to start the season he took a back seat to any veteran available. Then he got shot in the knee cap during a robbery. He came back and still flashed the motor from before but had only a handful of games where his effort was nice but the rust was evident. I'd love him back cheap as a 15th man with upside. You don't see players with that much athleticism and that high of a motor, but he has to develop the skills and mental portion around that to ever be more than a last guy in the game.
KOQ: C- ... He just makes the cut and I think that's fair because he played limited minutes in the past. Unfortunately, he was inconsistent as a player and never saw consistent minutes either because of that or as a key cause for the inconsistency. In the same quarter he would flash great passing, impressive board work and a decent jumper; but also flash head scratching decision making, poor instincts and forced shots from outside of his range. He's one of those "if he ever puts it all together" guys, but this is the fourth season we're saying that. There's reason to be hopeful and reason to be doubtful about him, but at the end of day he's cheap enough to be a third C anyway at least.
The Role Players:
Lance: B+ ... Signed slightly more than the minimum and seemed like a nice role player to fill out the bench; but was thrust into a much bigger role as first man off the bench. His motor is excellent, defense is above average and he can make teams pay that leave him open. However, his hands are frustratingly bad, rebounding and passing are near non-existent and he tried to do too much (or was being asked to do too much). He deserves props for how much he developed in one offseason and considering his contract he contributed WAY more than expected. He was the best bench player in a lot of games and provided energy that was lacking from most of the roster. That said, he's a 15 mpg guy imho since he can only hit wide open looks; doesn't pass well and is a poor rebounder. Closing the season out with knee issues makes him a "let's just let him sign elsewhere" guy to me unless he takes a similar contract to this season...doubtful.
Sasha: D- ... You're probably thinking "wtf no F!?" But he had a hot streak to close the season and actually did provide energy that was missing since Lance got hurt. So he gets a D- instead. Thanks for the effort guy, may you never wear a Knicks jersey again.
Sweet Lou: D- ...Kinda similar to Sasha. I can appreciate the effort but if you're good play is 1 in every 10-12 games...then thanks for showing up but let's not do this again.
Seraphin: D- ...I'd feel bad giving him an F. I actually thought he showed more defensive effort than usual. His post game was good once every few games out, but he forced it regardless of effectiveness. Jumper was mostly ugly. Even with effort, defense was pretty weak.
The Coaches:
Fisher: F ...After one and a half season he still had no clue how to put together a rotation, something that even kids playing NBA 2K figure out after a while playing the association mode. Multiple players complained about communication issues, Melo just mentioned mixed signals as well, the youth mainly regressed under him and he even managed to have off the court drama follow him.
Rambis: F+ ...Everything bad about Fisher right to off the court drama from catching twitter viruses...but the fact that he established a rotation at all means I'll let him have a miniscule edge over Fisher. Both guys sucked, both deserved F's but for my money Fisher was a worse coach. Seriously...Rambis set a rotation that was frustrating because of Grant's situation, but at least players got into a rhythm playing.
The GM:
???: Inc ... If a team flounders and the GM never gets so much as brought up by the press...does that GM deserve to be named and graded?
President:
Phil: C ... RoLo, KP, Grant all good pick ups. The Wroten move is a clever play with limited options. Willy on the way isn't a bad way to start an offseason. We're also in a position to have 18 million of cap space but with signs pointing to opt outs, he maybe have 30 million to work with instead. Most refreshing though only because we're Knicks fans, we're looking at all our first round picks for the first time in an era. That said, AA crashed by the halfway point, the coach needed to be fired midseason, Sasha sucked, KS coulda been Lin or Shved and even two promising guys in Galloway and KOQ regressed. It was a mixed bag season, but thanks to his positioning with contracts and picks; this will be the offseason I believe his legacy is decided with the Knicks. His coaching selection is the biggest factor, but mass cap space and a ton of young players to develop will also play a big role. Love him or hate him, this offseason will be eventful.
storyteller
Veteran
Really hype for this kid's development...but I'd be more hype if he had a coach I trusted to handle it.
Wargames
One Of The Last Real Ones To Do It
lol @ Melo practically demanding to be part of the free agent decision-making this summer.
didn't you say you want to go to Brazil for the Olympics too? won't you be tied up with that preparation and all anyway?
I called it like a page or two ago. CAA and Carmelo want Thibs, he is a CAA guy and they probably miss the control of MSG they had a few seasons ago. Don't get me wrong Thibs is a great coach but you can't overlook the sway CAA would have if they had both the Thibs and Melo in NY. Last time that happened they traded a pick for BarGarbage so I can legit see why Phil isn't biting on this from Jump.
Jackson also looks like he wants to tank and is looking for a figurehead to lead the tank (Mark Jackson, Rambis)
Now it's starting to bubble to the surface. It's early but there is a legit chance the Knicks don't blink to Melo. It's unlikely but you never know Phil has the balls to do it.
Also you guys saw that Kobe commercial with Phil Jackson in it..... Maybe he does want back in LA
Either way I fully expect some fukkery this summer, it's just the Knicks way.