Do you guys understand the difference between eFG and raw FG percentage? Jordan was a better shooter than Kobe who was actually a more consistent shooter than Bird, though Bird 3 seasons were he shot a bit better than Kobe ever has.
Prime Larry Bird or Prime Kobe Bryant?
- Thread starter Street Knowledge
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How?
81
First round bye
shytty Bulls
Very good 76ers
84
Awful Bullets
Good Knicks
Very good Bucks
86
Aight Bulls
Good Hawks
Very good Bucks
compared to
2000
Not yet good Kings
Aight Suns
Very good Blazers
2001
Worse Blazers
Better Kings
Very good Spurs
2002
Aight Blazers
Very good Spurs
Very good Kings (they actually beat them if we're being real here)
2009
Aight Jazz
Good Rockets
Aight Nuggets
2010
Aight Thunder
Aight Jazz
Pretty good Suns
I don't see what was so much more difficult about the Lakers' roads. And that's ignoring that the teams the Celtics faced in the Finals were all much, much, much better than the teams the Lakers did sans the Celtics.
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Which is what this thread is about
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The pace is slower but the increase in foul calls after 2004+the emphasis on 3 point shooting has evened that out.
Also the zone defense shyt is the most overblown bullshyt argument you can make. Nobody plays zone defense. The only argument for defenses being better now is Thibs' new defensive system with huge emphasis on help, but that wasn't implemented until after Kobe's prime.
Also the zone defense shyt is the most overblown bullshyt argument you can make. Nobody plays zone defense. The only argument for defenses being better now is Thibs' new defensive system with huge emphasis on help, but that wasn't implemented until after Kobe's prime.
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Also TS% is a better measurement of efficiency than EFG%
Why did you leave out 04 and 08? Don't leave out years that they both lost. And no, those Lakers teams were not in the same stratosphere as the 08 Lakers and 04 Pistons, who are both top 5 team defenses historically. Not to mention they had to get through a top 5 historically great defense in the Spurs multiple times. You are still ignoring that Kobe's numbers get better in the playoffs while Bird's shrinks.
TS% makes it even closer. Bird was not some significantly better shooter than Kobe, especially in the playoffs.
Good thing Kobe played before 2004.
Here is the thing though, Bird peaked higher with his shooting but Kobe maintained his peak twice as long. Which do you prefer is a legitimate question at that point.
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I could include the years they lost but the point would remain the same. The 80s Lakers teams were better than anybody Kobe's Lakers faced in the Finals.
The only numbers that went up for Kobe were his shot attempts. His efficiency goes down. So does Bird's.
Kobe played before 04 but his peak was after 04. This thread is about who was better at their absolute best.
The thing with Kobe is what is his prime and how long? 03, 04, 06, 07 ,08, 09, 10 all have legitimate cases for his peak
What is his playoff peak? 01, 04, 08, 09, 10 all have legitimate arguments
That longevity, how long he sustained it is absurd. I'd rather have someone hitting at an 8 for twice the time someone was at a 9.
lol Kobe's efficiency goes up in the playoffs. Stop it. Kobe's peak isn't clear cut. On top of that, I only look at an opponents defense when comparing competition, Kobe faced significantly tougher defenses. You can have the GOAT offense and shytty defenses and be overall better than a GOAT defense team with no offense.
What is his playoff peak? 01, 04, 08, 09, 10 all have legitimate arguments
That longevity, how long he sustained it is absurd. I'd rather have someone hitting at an 8 for twice the time someone was at a 9.
lol Kobe's efficiency goes up in the playoffs. Stop it. Kobe's peak isn't clear cut. On top of that, I only look at an opponents defense when comparing competition, Kobe faced significantly tougher defenses. You can have the GOAT offense and shytty defenses and be overall better than a GOAT defense team with no offense.
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The question is which year was Kobe's peak. This is what Bird put up in his best season 86
25.8/6.8/9.8
49.6/42.3/89.6 shooting
25.6 PER 58 TS% 52.1 eFG% .244 WS/48
and the efficiency is even more astounding when you consider how little the 3 point shot was used during those times. Bird is one of the greatest shooters ever, if he shot more 3s his efficiency numbers would be through the roof. But it wasn't believed to be a good shot back then.
Then in the playoffs
25.9/8.2/9.3
51.7/41.1/92.7
23.9 PER 61.5 TS% 55.1 eFG% .263 WS/48
Kobe never reached these levels
25.8/6.8/9.8
49.6/42.3/89.6 shooting
25.6 PER 58 TS% 52.1 eFG% .244 WS/48
and the efficiency is even more astounding when you consider how little the 3 point shot was used during those times. Bird is one of the greatest shooters ever, if he shot more 3s his efficiency numbers would be through the roof. But it wasn't believed to be a good shot back then.
Then in the playoffs
25.9/8.2/9.3
51.7/41.1/92.7
23.9 PER 61.5 TS% 55.1 eFG% .263 WS/48
Kobe never reached these levels
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It's more like would you rather have someone hitting at an 8 for 10 years or a 10 for 8
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You only look at opponents defense when comparing competition? Are you retarded?
I already established that Bird peaked higher but he only did it 3 times. Kobe doubled that and wasn't that far off in magnitude. It is definitely a toss up. Not to mention you won't post those DRTG of the teams Bird faced. Why would I look at an opponents ORTG? You don't get points for destroying a elite GOAT level offense like the Lakers or Suns who were horrible defensively.
LOL Bird did not have 8 top notch seasons. Stop it. It's been established on any real basketball enthusiast forum that Bird has a few great playoff runs and more where he significantly underperforms.
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The 87 Lakers>2004 Pistons. That's all I'm gonna say on that matter.
Larry Bird: Playoffs Per Game (1979-80 to 1987-88)
From To G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1980 1988 145 78 42.6 9.2 19.3 .476 0.5 1.4 .353 8.7 17.9 .486 5.7 6.4 .892 2.4 8.3 10.7 6.4 1.9 0.9 3.2 2.9 24.5
LOL not even close. Why you grouping in all of his playoff seasons, break it down year by year lol, you trying to hide all of those subpar years? Take that trip to RealGM and use that search function. It's been established his numbers dipped on average when that post season started.
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I've already read all that shyt. He's still better than Kobe. If you break down Kobe year by year he's abysmal.