President on Leno: "We don't have a domestic spying program."

MeachTheMonster

MeachTheMonster

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Type Username Here said:
You have already shown your delusional thinking when it comes to this man. It's what he says versus ANY evidence I can show you.

Stop trolling in here.
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I'm not trolling anything. I keep hearing all these grand claims of "goverment spying" and constitutional rights being broken.

But NOBODY has any proof of it. All we have is some statements from a government contractor with an obvious agenda, and a couple sensational news stories. Any other time y'all would talk about how the media is so full of shyt, so why is it you are all in with them on this subject without real concrete evidence?


Exactly who was monitored?

Why were they monitored?

How was the data gathered?

What was done with the data?

What checks and balances are in place for privacy?

Until you can can answer those questions, you should be asking questions instead of making grand proclamations.
 
Julius Skrrvin

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MeachTheMonster said:
Once again. The ability to collect/compare data is not the same as actually spying.

Do you have any proof of actual spying on American citizens?
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You don't see the collection of data, communications without your express consent as spying?

So if the police go over to your house and open your mail, you're okay with it? That's cool with you, breh? :beli:
 
MeachTheMonster

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Kool G Trap said:
You don't see the collection of data, communications without your express consent as spying?
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It's the tech companies collecting the data. Do you consider them to be "spying" on you?

I used to work for a call center where we sold At&T comercial phone service. As an 18 year old kid I had access to all types of personal information of customers from phone records to credit scores. Why aren't there any news stories on that? By your definition I was spying on all types of people.

No one cares about that though, it's ok for random snot nosed 18 year old kids to have access, to the info. But if the goverment uses it now everybody is upset:beli:

So if the police go over to your house and open your mail, you're okay with it? That's cool with you, breh? :beli:
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That's not what they are doing here. They need permision to acces/use the information against me.

Just like with the mail if they access it without a warrant/probable cause then they are breaking the law.

Do you have any proof of a goverment employee accessing an American citizens information without a warrant/probable cause?
 
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Senator Wyden, a Democrat and ranking member of the United States Intelligence Committee calls it Domestic Surveillance:

http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/blog/post/wyden-on-nsa-domestic-surveillance

From my position on the Senate Intelligence Committee, I had seen government activities conducted under the umbrella of the Patriot Act that I knew would astonish most Americans. At the time, Senate rules about classified information barred me from giving any specifics of what I’d seen except to describe it as "secret law"—a secret interpretation of the Patriot Act, issued by a secret court, that authorizes secret surveillance programs; programs that I and colleagues think go far beyond the intent of the statute.

If that is not enough to give you pause, then consider that not only were the existence of and the legal justification for these programs kept completely secret from the American people, senior officials from across the government were making statements to the public about domestic surveillance that were clearly misleading and at times simply false. Senator Mark Udall and I tried again and again to get the executive branch to be straight with the public, but under the classification rules observed by the Senate we are not even allowed to tap the truth out in Morse code and we tried just about everything else we could think of to warn the American people. But as I’ve said before, one way or another, the truth always wins out.
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Last month, disclosures made by an NSA contractor lit the surveillance world on fire. Several provisions of secret law were no longer secret and the American people were finally able to see some of the things I’ve been raising the alarm about for years. And when they did, boy were they stunned, and boy, are they angry.
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Now that we know a bit about secret law and the court that created it, let’s talk about how it has diminished the rights of every American man, woman and child. Despite the efforts of the intelligence community leadership to downplay the privacy impact of the Patriot Act collection, the bulk collection of phone records significantly impacts the privacy of million of law-abiding Americans. If you know who someone called, when they called, where they called from, and how long they talked, you lay bare the personal lives of lawabiding Americans to the scrutiny of government bureaucrats and outside contractors. This is particularly true if you’re vacuuming up cell phone location data, essentially turning every American’s cell phone into a tracking device. We are told this is not happening today, but intelligence officials have told the press that they currently have the legal authority to collect Americans’ location information in bulk.
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MeachTheMonster said:
Do you have any proof of a goverment employee accessing an American citizens information without a warrant/probable cause?
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data



James Clapper admits he did not tell the truth:
One of its first targets was Intelligence Director James Clapper who said that the NSA doesn’t collect data on “millions or hundreds of millions of Americans.” As it turns out, he lied.
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Clapper's apology:
“In light of Senator Wyden’s reference to “dossiers” and faced with the challenge of trying to give an unclassified answer about our intelligence collection activities, many of which are classified, I simply didn’t think of Section 215 of the Patriot Act. Instead, my answer addressed collection of the content of communications. I focused in particular on Section 702 of FISA, because we had just been through a year-long campaign to seek reauthorization of this provision and had had many classified discussions about it, including with Senator Wyden. That is why I added a comment about “inadvertent” collection of U.S. person information, because that is what happens under Section 702 even though it is targeted at foreigners.

That said, I realized later that Senator Wyden was asking about Section 215 metadata collection, rather than content collection. Thus, my response was clearly erroneous – for which I apologize. While my staff acknowledged the error to Senator Wyden’s staff soon after the hearing, I can now openly correct it because the existence of the metadata collection program has been declassified.

Next month will mark for me 50 years of service to this country, virtually all of it in intelligence. In the last 20 of those years, I have appeared before Congressional hearings and briefings dozens of times, and have answered thousands of questions, either orally or in writing. I take all such appearances seriously and prepare rigorously for them. But mistakes will happen, and when I make one, I correct it.”
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http://www.webpronews.com/intellige...its-that-he-lied-to-congress-is-sorry-2013-07
 
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MeachTheMonster

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In December 2005, Congress was debating the first re-authorization of the Patriot Act, a controversial 2001 law that gave the federal government expanded power to spy on Americans. And Barack Obama was one of nine senators who signed a letter criticizing the then-current version of the legislation for providing insufficient protections for civil liberties.

The senators focused on Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which allows the government to obtain “business records” that are “relevant” to a terrorism investigation. Sen. Obama and eight of his colleagues worried that the provision would “allow government fishing expeditions targeting innocent Americans. We believe the government should be required to convince a judge that the records they are seeking have some connection to a suspected terrorist or spy.”


Congress eventually re-authorized the Patriot Act, including Section 215. A few years later, Obama was elected president of the United States. And under President Obama’s watch, the NSA engaged in surveillance suspiciously similar to the broad “fishing expeditions” Sen. Obama warned about.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-act-abuses-president-obama-proved-him-right/

:ohhh:
:ohhh:
 
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