Poll: is Texas the south?

Is Texas the south

  • Yes

    Votes: 274 85.1%
  • No

    Votes: 48 14.9%

  • Total voters
    322

UberEatsDriver

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Brooklyn keeps on taking it.
Facts are fact, patty. Cows in TX produce food and drink for normal human beings to eat.

Dirt in Haiti only produces mudpies.

You are what you eat, right? :ohhh:

Right! :troll:

Also, bytches in NY throw y'all dirty asses in the garbage from the time y'all are born. 2pac told us that. :pacspit: Thanks Pac.

facts are facts your dusty ass was raised fatherless around cow shyt.

when I lay with your mom it gives her the opportunity to imagine what it would be like to raise you with a dad nikka.

go take a shower dusty!

:pacspit:
 

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Ight Imma try leave this guy alone before I get banned. lol

Dude ain't southern and or even AADOS. No use in derailing the thread further barkin at this foo.
 

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Best article I've seen on the subject. Very informative and historic.

Is Texas Southern, Western, or Truly a Lone Star?


I gotta theory that needs a lil more research on my part.

But, the more and more I read about it's importance I think the Chisholm Trail might be the dividing line between the East TX, which is southern, and Central TX, which is southern with western and norte characteristics.
 
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Biscayne

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Nah, bruh. Atlanta being the capital of the south refers to it's prominence as a center of entertainment, media, film, finance/business, not one of culture.

Not saying Houston is the most southern city in the south, because it ain't. But, it's more southern than ATL, fasho.

And although, I don't have stats I still gon say HELL NO to Atl having mostly southern transplants. Those transplants in ATL are northerns or foreigners for the most part, especially when it comes to BLACK PEOPLE. Black houston transplants comes from other places in the south mostly, and it's been like that throughout history.

We have Frenchtown.
Frenchtown, Houston - Wikipedia

Where's ATL's geechie version of that?
You make a great point. Plenty of Louisiana transplants in Houston. And there's plenty of Northern transplants in ATL. But historically and currently, ATL has attracted Southern ADOS from surrounding states. And Houston has just as large of a foreign black population as ATL does. If not larger. What's Atlanta's equivalent to the large scale Mexican immigration that's been happening in Houston for the past 25-30yrs? Yes, I understand there are plenty of culturally Southern, Mexican-American Tejanos who've been in Houston for 70+yrs. But a huge bulk of Houston's population are recent migrants from Mexican and central America. Atlanta doesn't have that immigration on the scale of Houston. Even from a historic standpoint, Texas had been part of Mexico, longer than it had been an antebellum state. While I agree Houston is about as culturally tied to the South as a Texas city can get, I don't see how in any way shape or form, it can be more Southern than ATL. Not in this universe. One city has a consistent flow from North Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, TN. The other has a flow from Louisiana, Mexico, and California.

:hubie:

Houston is too far West to be more Southern than Atlanta.
 

Biscayne

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I gotta theory that needs a lil more research on my part.

But, the more and more I read about it's importance I think the Chisholm Trail might be the dividing line between the East TX, which is southern, and Central TX, which is southern with western and norte characteristics.
Yes!!! Good point. The Chisholm Trail seems to be a great marker. That's where Big Cattle in Central Texas started taking precrdence over Big Cotton in East Texas. Once you head west towards the Chisholm trail, you enter frontier country. Central Texas/South Texas/North Texas. Diffirent from East Texas.
 

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You make a great point. Plenty of Louisiana transplants in Houston. And there's plenty of Northern transplants in ATL. But historically and currently, ATL has attracted Southern ADOS from surrounding states. And Houston has just as large of a foreign black population as ATL does. If not larger. What's Atlanta's equivalent to the large scale Mexican immigration that's been happening in Houston for the past 25-30yrs? Yes, I understand there are plenty of culturally Southern, Mexican-American Tejanos who've been in Houston for 70+yrs. But a huge bulk of Houston's population are recent migrants from Mexican and central America. Atlanta doesn't have that immigration on the scale of Houston. Even from a historic standpoint, Texas had been part of Mexico, longer than it had been an antebellum state. While I agree Houston is about as culturally tied to the South as a Texas city can get, I don't see how in any way shape or form, it can be more Southern than ATL. Not in this universe. One city has a consistent flow from North Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, TN. The other has a flow from Louisiana, Mexico, and California.

:hubie:

Houston is too far West to be more Southern than Atlanta.

Couple inaccuracies here.

- Mexicans are not a foundational population to Houston. Their community arrived long after the city was built from the ground up by African-American slaves and who economy was driven almost completely by the cotton production of the surrounding areas. The city was a typical southern white anglophone(with some lousiana francophones) and African-American city for the mid to late 19th and early 20th century.

- TX was only apart of Mexico for a short 15 years. And was part of antebellum America for at least 29(really longer than that, because Mexico and Spain before that gave land grants to US and Louisiana slave owners).

But, sure Houston does have huge hispanic popualation, but that has little to no effect on the culture of the AA population here. They assimilate to our culture, not the other way around.

Whereas in Atlanta since the end of the civil war has been on a self desouthernization process that Houston hasn't by adopting a "New South" policy which sought to shed the ways of the traditional old south in favor of upscale modernization in politics and culture and was adopted by both the white elite & black bourgeois in the city. It had effects such as killing the blues(and country) music scene in the city as it was seen as uncouth. True it did help ATL become an importance place during the civil rights movement, but it also helped atl become the :wrist: capital of America overtaking san francisco, especially for blacks, which is the antithesis of southerness. Atlanta has always been sort of a self hating southern city.

And if ATL has all of these black migrants from other places in the south why don't they have a thriving geechee community or culture like Jacksonville FL or even Miami FL despite being the in same state as GA geechees? The truth is that geechees tended to migrate up north or to florida rather than to atlanta like a lot of other black southerners. Unlike Houston which actually did attract the people who carried the tradition of the rural TX cowboy and the Louisiana creole to the city, especially to our black communities.

Now if you want to say that white Houstonians are less southern than white Atliens then I wont argue with you there as in the early to mid 20th century there was a mass exodus of old generation white houstonians from the city due to some bad riots that took place here and the desegregation of the city, many of them fled to the outer suburbs and rural areas. This is the reason why there's no redneck culture in the city of houston but there is in other southern cities like atl.

But black houstonians are without a DOUBT more southern than black atliens.
 
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Yes!!! Good point. The Chisholm Trail seems to be a great marker. That's where Big Cattle in Central Texas started taking precrdence over Big Cotton in East Texas. Once you head west towards the Chisholm trail, you enter frontier country. Central Texas/South Texas/North Texas. Diffirent from East Texas.

Thing is you had cotton and cattle on both sides of the Chisholm even during the time of slavery, but obviously one was predominant over the other depending on what side of the trail you were on.

But, AFTER slavery many freed black slave laborers of the cotton country in east TX took to the cattle driving industry as they saw the lifestyle as offering more freedom, fulfillment, prosperity, and dignity than working as sharecroppers picking cotton. Many would later come back home to East TX and work on or even own cattle ranches themselves. The Settlement of Texas city in Galveston County which was founded by black cowboys who made their money on the chisholm driving cattle to buy the land to form a community is probably the best example of that.

Also the oldest black owned century ranch in TX, the taylor-stevenson ranch, is in Houston.
 

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It seems like most people consider Houston to be the South, but what about Central Texas and the panhandle?

Houston TX is without a doubt a southern city, especially as it concerns the AADOS community.

*Historically*, even central tx, austin for example, is what we consider the "western south" in nature. Keep in mind that a large percentage of austin's population prior to the civil war were slaves, and slaves built the state capitol building there. It's also home to many historical freedmen's settlements as well.

Today, though, I wouldn't be mad if you were to question the southerness of today's austin. The black community in particular there has lost a lot of it's foot hold and cultural identity due to out migrations and gentrification.

The panhandle I don't know too much about, but from what I can tell they seem more like lower plains midwestern in nature.
 
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Biscayne

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Couple inaccuracies here.

- Mexicans are not a foundational population to Houston. Their community arrived long after the city was built from the ground up by African-American slaves and who economy was driven almost completely by the cotton production of the surrounding areas. The city was a typical southern white anglophone(with some lousiana francophones) and African-American city for the mid to late 19th and early 20th century.

- TX was only apart of Mexico for a short 15 years. And was part of antebellum America for at least 29(really longer than that, because Mexico and Spain before that gave land grants to US and Louisiana slave owners).

But, sure Houston does have huge hispanic popualation, but that has little to no effect on the culture of the AA population here. They assimilate to our culture, not the other way around.

Whereas in Atlanta since the end of the civil war has been on a self desouthernization process that Houston hasn't by adopting a "New South" policy which sought to shed the ways of the traditional old south in favor of upscale modernization in politics and culture and was adopted by both the white elite & black bourgeois in the city. It had effects such as killing the blues(and country) music scene in the city as it was seen as uncouth. True it did help ATL become an importance place during the civil rights movement, but it also helped atl become the :wrist: capital of America overtaking san francisco, especially for blacks, which is the antithesis of southerness. Atlanta has always been sort of a self hating southern city.

And if ATL has all of these black migrants from other places in the south why don't they thriving geechee community or culture like Jacksonville FL or even Miami FL despite being the in same state as GA geechees? The truth is that geechees tended to migrate up north or to florida rather than to atlanta like a lot of other black southerners. Unlike Houston which actually did attract the people who carried the tradition of the rural TX cowboy and the Louisiana creole to the city, especially to our black communities.

Now if you want to say that white Houstonians are less southern than white Atliens then I wont argue with you there as in the early to mid 20th century there was a mass exodus of old generation white houstonians from the city due to some bad riots that took place here and the of desegregation to the city, many of them fled to the outer suburbs and rural areas. This is the reason why there's no redneck culture in the city of houston but there is in other southern cities like atl.

But black houstonians are without a DOUBT more southern than black atliens.
I agree with most of that. But I have to make note..Texas underwent the same "Southern clean up" effort after the civil war that Atlanta did. Except Texas took it into overdrive. Various Texas Governors tried to dissociate the state from the shame of defeat that confederacy received after the Civil War. That's why the various Texas state governors in the reconstruction era and all the way to the early 1900's made the state start embarrassing and playing up the Texas Independence angle, and dedicated monuments to Texas independence heroes like Sam Houston, rather than building monument to confederate "heroes". While ATL advertised its city as "The New South" Texas advertised the state as being an independent entity separate from the South. Being associated with the South meant, being associated with defeat, poverty, and backwards thinking. Especially at the turn of the century. This was especially important when Texas was showcasing the Texas Centennial Celebrations in 1936 in Dallas:

There was also a top-down imperative, coming from the state’s business leaders, politicians, and history professors, who began to cast the settlement of Texas in terms of the settling of the American West, rather than the expansion of the slaveocracy. All of this culminated, in Cummins’s view, at the 1936 Texas Centennial celebration, in Dallas. In those pre-mass media days, such events—this was sort of a World’s Fair of Texas, with dignitaries and tourists coming from all over American and the world—were the best way to advertise and get your audience “on message.”

And in 1936, that message was essentially, “Welcome To Texas, We Are Not the South,” all at the behest of a purpose-built state entity called the Centennial Board of Control. Its mission: to secede Texas from the lingering remnants of the Confederacy.

There was a HUGE rebranding effort for Texas during the late 1800's and Early 1900's. Under various governors:


So Texas’s politicians, educators, and ad-men went to work, Cantrell says, and have since all but totally recast the very ideal of what it means to be a Texan.

“And so what do you do? You play up the frontier, you play up the Texas Revolution and the Alamo, you play up the (in reality not-very-glorious) ten years of the Texas Republic, and then you talk about the Indian Wars and the cattle drives, all culminating in Spindletop and the discovery of oil,” he says. “All of these things made Texas seem like anything but a Southern state.”

Cantrell traces the first outlines of this marketing campaign to the turn of the century, but believes it started to kick into high gear during the governorship of Oscar Colquitt (1911-1915). “He just went crazy authorizing the building of monuments to pioneer leaders and heroes of the Texas Revolution. And you see it reflected in textbooks and all sorts of other places.” To paraphrase the last line in John Sayles’s Lone Star, Texas leaders made the conscious decision to “forget Gettysburg.”

Fortunately for the backers of this plan, there was some meat to the myth they were selling. The so-called Lost Cause so sighed over by Southerners is depressing compared to the Texas Revolution. Who needs the doomed valor of Pickett’s Charge when Texas’s darkest moment was redeemed decisively weeks later at San Jacinto? The ruthless Santa Anna made for a better villain than Grant, Sherman, and Lincoln combined.

“I don’t want to oversimplify any interpretive theme but I really subscribe to the idea that the notion of Texas as a Western state, when you really boil it down to its essence, it’s really been part and parcel of what is now a hundred-years-and-running effort to escape what C. Vann Woodward called ‘the burden of Southern history,’” says Cantrell.

This "Texas declaration of succession" from the South, even influenced what direction cities like Dallas would go in, architecturally:

Cumminspoints out that the Art Deco architecture at Dallas’s Fair Park (built for the Centennial) was an intentional distancing from Dixie modes, one that sent the message that Texas was keeping up with the times and not harking back to the past of Greco-Roman columns and such. The Tom Lea murals and a thicket of cowboy statuary played up the Western theme, and the likenesses of the heroes of the Texas Revolution like Houston, Fannin, and Austin were presented in frontier attire, rather than the frilly suits the men actually wore. The event’s logo featured, in Cummins’s words, “ten-gallon hats, six-shooters, high-heeled boots, Texas Rangers, bluebonnets, and sex,” the last nodding to the cowgirls and Rangerettes on parade.
 

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I agree with most of that. But I have to make note..Texas underwent the same "Southern clean up" effort after the civil war that Atlanta did. Except Texas took it into overdrive. Various Texas Governors tried to dissociate the state from the shame of defeat that confederacy received after the Civil War. That's why the various Texas state governors in the reconstruction era and all the way to the early 1900's made the state start embarrassing and playing up the Texas Independence angle, and dedicated monuments to Texas independence heroes like Sam Houston, rather than building monument to confederate "heroes". While ATL advertised its city as "The New South" Texas advertised the state as being an independent entity separate from the South. Being associated with the South meant, being associated with defeat, poverty, and backwards thinking. Especially at the turn of the century. This was especially important when Texas was showcasing the Texas Centennial Celebrations in 1936 in Dallas:

This is all interesting and informative, but it doesn't address my point of contention which was a comparison of the southerness of HOUSTON to ATLANTA. Not Texas to Georgia or Atlanta.

I even said many times on here that GA is clearly more southern than TX, full stop. But that HOUSTON, especially BLACK Houston is more southern than Atl or black atl. Anything else is a non sequitur.

The entire article you quote seems to deal with Dallas.

The desouthernization process in ATL had tangible effects on the culture there, that you wont find happened in Houston.

Gradually, after the 1930s, Nashville became the capital of country music. In addition, Atlanta's aspirations to more "upscale" arts discouraged both the hillbilly band and blues scenes.[5] From the 1940s to the mid-1950s, Atlantans supported a thriving live music scene, but the city no longer was a major center of music recording.[5]
Country music in Atlanta - Wikipedia
 
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Luke Cage

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Texas is west, i expect to see house wives with guns, cowboy hats and cowboy boots. Tex-Mex food

Georgia is south i expect to see grits and Okra, Confederate flags and Statues of Robert E Lee.
 
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