Poland not letting African refugees flee from Ukraine.

[Professor Emeritus]

see, Liberia didn't get these (black yankees) ADOS who fathered the Back To Africa movement and black identity regardless of complexion & admixture

they got this segment who only knew the ways of the South which included negro vs mixed caste systems

Except I already showed that 4 of the first 10 presidents of Liberia were clearly fully Black and 2 of them were from Ohio and New Jersey. Even one of the very first vice-presidents and the 2nd president were fully Black. If all the immigrants to Liberia were part of a supposed Southern caste system based on admixture, then how the hell did they elect full-black Northerners as their presidents from almost the very beginning?

The people that went to Liberia never even faced the One Drop Rule that came later, that people like Homer Plessy and Walter White had to face.

considering most of the people who went to LIberia came from the South in a time that pre-dated the One Drop Rule and JIm Crow, it's a mistake to compare them to Booker, Grimke, Plessy and Walter White.

Huh? Look at your own post. This is how that white-looking first president of Liberia is described by your own source:

"Roberts was one of numerous free blacks who despaired of ever being more than a slave without the title, though he was seven-eighths white and could easily pass as white."

"In the United States, he held fewer legal rights than the most illiterate White man had."




I struggle to see how he's not a fair comparison to Plessy. In fact I looked up Virginia law and found:

Virginia was the first state to outline a formulaic definition of race in its ban against interracial marriage. In 1705, it defined a “Negro” as the child, the grandchild, or great-grandchild of a “Negro” or anyone who was at a least one-eighth “Negro.” By this definition, “Mulattos” were Black. Other states soon followed. At different times up until the 20th century, Indiana, Maryland, Missouri, Nebraska, North Carolina, North Dakota, and South Carolina all relied on a one-eighth rule, while Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Texas defined anyone with “any blood of the African race in their veins” as Black. While legally many Mixed-race individuals were considered white in many states at various points of time, socially most whites regarded anyone with any Black ancestry as Black.

How the “One Drop Rule” Became a Tool of White Supremacy




I'm sure there's definitely nuance and the situation is very complex where you look at a many different states and periods of history. But in order to make the basic point @Adeptus Astartes made, he only has to show that "some" of the Americo-Liberian rulers were Black American descendants of slavery, and that has already been proven numerous times over. From the jump some of the Americo-Liberian leaders were fully Black descendants of slaves form both North and South, and from your own sources, even some of the whitest-looking ones were still considered by Americans to be Black and no better than a slave before they left for Liberia.



And again, the entire debate is absolutely silly, because proving that Americo-Liberian rulers were Black Americans descended from slavery is just as meaningless to current ADOS as proving that some Africans sold slaves is completely meaningless to current Africans. None of those people have ANYTHING to do with the Africans or Black Americans who are getting shytted on by either side. I'm only pointing out that the obsession with division and definitions and trying to pretend there's any such thing as ancestral purity that would allow someone to shyt on everyone else in the world is fukking stupid.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

It's more silly division stuff. Virtually all of them were descended from enslaved Americans, just like nearly all of the Free Blacks who stayed. Just like the Free Blacks who stayed, some were 1/2 Black or even just 1/4 or 1/8 Black, while others were as Black as the blackest man in America. Many of the ones who left for Liberia came from free states and were only free because their state had outlawed slavery, so no, they weren't "slaveowners". Others were very recently freed slaves, and others had been freed earlier or as children. There may have been a tiny % who owned slaves in the past just like there were a tiny % of free Black Americans who stayed who owned slaves, but using them to discredit the entire group is as stupid as when white conservatives use Black slaveowners to discredit Black reparations. In her OP thread on this she tried to create this crazy division where supposedly ADOS is only those Black folk who were released from slavery after 1865 and the ones released earlier don't count somehow.

Her OP source in the original thread literally stated that the people sent there included freed slaves and free blacks, so I don't know where she gets this "They didn't consider themselves Black" claim. Some were light-skinned 1/4 or 1/8 Black and some were as Black as could be.


2nd President of Liberia, born in Maryland. Am I supposed to believe that Americo-Liberians were a bunch of "basically white" slaveowners yet Stephen Benson still won the presidency out of all of them because.....?

5th president of Liberia, born in Ohio

6th president of Liberia, born in South Carolina

11th President of Liberia. First one to be born in Africa, parents were from New Jersey

I could keep going. Am I supposed to seriously believe that these aren't Black men because xoxodede has an obsession with division? Yes there were some prominent Americo-Liberians who were just 1/4 Black or could almost pass for White, just like there were many prominent ADOS in that period (Charles Drew, Mordecai Johnson, Walter Francis White, James Weldon Johnson, Fredi Washington, Homer Plessy, Arnold Bertonneau, John Mercer Langston) who you could say the same thing about.







Bullshyt. How is someone not "ADOS" if they were freed before 1865? Does that mean that all of the ancestors who were freed before 1865 but stayed in the USA don't count as ADOS either?

The type of hair-splitting she's doing is EXACTLY the same sort of hair-splitting the anti-reparations white folk do when they want to claim "Black folk have slaveowner ancestors too!" or "How can your really prove all of your ancestors were really slaves, how do you know some of them weren't free?"

For the most part Dark skinned Americo-LIberians had no power until 1870; the founders with power were all mulattos from pre-jim crow/one drop rule era South

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.on the dark skinned ones that you posted

 

[#1 pick]

To be fair, Black South Africans be giving Nigerians hell on social media. But in general these online “diaspora wars” are completely unproductive and this sub-forum in particular needs an additional 2-3 non-biased admins specifically to moderate these topics and keep them from turning into a shyt show.

I am barely on SA twitter. For the most part, they tend to talk about entertainment. I rarely see country wars outside of that one specific time period.

You mean to tell me SA are always talking about Nigerians and other Africans? I never seen it. Doesn't make it fake, I am asking you, what's your proof?

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Except I already showed that 4 of the first 10 presidents of Liberia were clearly fully Black and 2 of them were from Ohio and New Jersey. Even one of the very first vice-presidents and the 2nd president were fully Black. If all the immigrants to Liberia were part of a supposed Southern caste system based on admixture, then how the hell did they elect full-black Northerners as their presidents from almost the very beginning?








Huh? Look at your own post:



"Roberts was one of numerous free blacks who despaired of ever being more than a slave without the title, though he was seven-eighths white and could easily pass as white."

"In the United States, he held fewer legal rights than the most illiterate White man had."




I struggle to see how he's not a fair comparison to Plessy. In fact I looked up Virginia law and found:

Virginia was the first state to outline a formulaic definition of race in its ban against interracial marriage. In 1705, it defined a “Negro” as the child, the grandchild, or great-grandchild of a “Negro” or anyone who was at a least one-eighth “Negro.” By this definition, “Mulattos” were Black. Other states soon followed. At different times up until the 20th century, Indiana, Maryland, Missouri, Nebraska, North Carolina, North Dakota, and South Carolina all relied on a one-eighth rule, while Alabama, Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Texas defined anyone with “any blood of the African race in their veins” as Black. While legally many Mixed-race individuals were considered white in many states at various points of time, socially most whites regarded anyone with any Black ancestry as Black.

How the “One Drop Rule” Became a Tool of White Supremacy




I'm sure there's definitely nuance and the situation is very complex where you look at a many different states and periods of history. But in order to make the basic point @Adeptus Astartes made, he only has to show that "some" of the Americo-Liberian rulers were Black American descendants of slavery, and that has already been proven numerous times over. From the jump some of the Americo-Liberian leaders were fully Black descendants of slaves form both North and South, and from your own sources, even some of the whitest-looking ones were still considered by Americans to be Black and no better than a slave before they left for Liberia.

Johnson wasn't considered "legally black" when he was in the USA; he left before the One Drope Rule and Jim CRow was a thing. See Sally Hemming's children who went to live as "whites"

Based on late 20th-century DNA analysis and a preponderance of historical evidence, US president Thomas Jefferson is widely believed to have fathered the six mixed-race children with his slave Sally Hemings, who was herself three-quarters white and a paternal half-sister of his wife Martha Wayles Jefferson.[quote 1] Four of these children, who were seven-eighths white, survived to adulthood. Under Virginia law of the time, they were both legally white as they were seven-eighths European in ancestry, and born into slavery because of her status.[8] Jefferson allowed the two oldest to escape in 1822 (freeing them legally was a public action he elected to avoid because he would have had to gain permission from the state legislature); the two youngest he freed in his 1826 will. Three of the four entered white society as adults, and all their descendants identified as white.[8]

Plessy on the other hand challenged Jim Crow and obviously lived the One Drop Rule. See Sally Hemmings children who went to lives as "whites" (the picture is of PBS Pinchback)

 

[Professor Emeritus]

For the most part Dark skinned Americo-LIberians had no power until 1870; the founders with power were all mulattos from pre-jim crow/one drip rule era South

I mean this shyt is just easy as fukk to disprove. Liberia was founded in 1848. Stephen Allen Benson was Vice-President of the very first president of Liberia from 1854-1856 and became President himself from 1856-1864.

But I'm still struggling to see what your point is. Your own source said that the FIRST president of Liberia was considered no better than a slave in America, despite his light-skinned appearance. The SECOND president of Liberia was clearly a dark-skinned American. And numerous Americo-Liberian leaders afterwards (including the 5th and 6th presidents) were also dark-skinned descendants of Americans, going all the way up to Charles Taylor.

I mean if your source said the dark-skinned Americo-Liberians formed their own political party in 1869 and then cruised into power....doesn't that sort of prove there were a lot of dark-skinned American descendants of slaves in Liberia and they held power?

Not seeing what y'alls endgame is here. You're trying to define hard lines when the lines CLEARLY were not hard. You simply can't deny that descendants of slaves who had been considered Black in America then became leaders in Liberia. Some early and some later. Your own sources said so.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Except I already showed that 4 of the first 10 presidents of Liberia were clearly fully Black and 2 of them were from Ohio and New Jersey. Even one of the very first vice-presidents and the 2nd president were fully Black. If all the immigrants to Liberia were part of a supposed Southern caste system based on admixture, then how the hell did they elect full-black Northerners as their presidents from almost the very beginning?

see post

Poland not letting African refugees flee from Ukraine.

touches on the difference between the dark skinned and light skinned liberians

Huh? Look at your own post. This is how that white-looking first president of Liberia is described by your own source:



"Roberts was one of numerous free blacks who despaired of ever being more than a slave without the title, though he was seven-eighths white and could easily pass as white."

"In the United States, he held fewer legal rights than the most illiterate White man had."

mulattos back then were considered below whites but above "pure blacks," this would change when jim crow and done drop rule came along

I'm sure there's definitely nuance and the situation is very complex where you look at a many different states and periods of history. But in order to make the basic point @Adeptus Astartes made, he only has to show that "some" of the Americo-Liberian rulers were Black American descendants of slavery, and that has already been proven numerous times over. From the jump some of the Americo-Liberian leaders were fully Black descendants of slaves form both North and South, and from your own sources,

They came from early ADOS before there was a black identity in the South. See Frederick Douglass when he went from the South to up North and met "Black Yankees" and how they changed his outlook on race

The "1 Drop Rule" explained and how it's tied to AfroAmerican identity

even some of the whitest-looking ones were still considered by Americans to be Black and no better than a slave before they left for Liberia.

They were considered mixed and above/separate caste from "blacks" before jim crow/one drop rule took over. There are plenty of sources that illustrate how mixed types in the South (the exact types who went to liberia) got down before jim crow/one drop rule took over

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mixed types/free people of color up North (Black yankees) were the ones who created modern Afram identity and bypassed all things that deal with admixture and complexion

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I mean this shyt is just easy as fukk to disprove. Liberia was founded in 1848. Stephen Allen Benson was Vice-President from 1854-1856 and president from 1856-1864.

touched on it here

benson was the exception, not the rule

 

[GreenGhxst]

I'm hearing mixed reports, but whats funny is......

where the fukk are these Europeans going to go when Europe turns into smithereens

 

[viktordoomsecretwars]

What an absolute debacle of a thread this has turned into. Instead of offering help, potential resources, and reading information about the Africans being stranded in a warzone, this thread is a counter productive diaspora pissing contest. The internet has warped yalls minds with this ADOS vs Foreign Black beef bullshyt. Black people getting shytted on around the planet and here at home, and y'all beefing over white folks flags and colonial flags. Y'all can't leave this internet beef shyt alone for 5 minutes, and I say this as an ADOS from Eastern NC (Kinston born and raised). Leave that flag beef sucka shyt to twitter. If this is the level of thinking in our community, we will remain at the bottom for another 600 fukking years

Why blacks as a group stay losing

 

[Primetime21]

I am barely on SA twitter. For the most part, they tend to talk about entertainment. I rarely see country wars outside of that one specific time period.

You mean to tell me SA are always talking about Nigerians and other Africans? I never seen it. Doesn't make it fake, I am asking you, what's your proof?

you can look up either of the hashtags in the last tweet and they are unloading the chopper on other Africans.

 

[AJD]

These idiot ass cacs been blowing up my phone with stupid ass notifications literally every hour and I been doin my best to show little interest until I hear it's right at my door step.

Why would I a black man thats been all but ostracized from this white supremacist society, care about cacs who wouldn't even spit on me if I were on fire?

I'm looking at the silver lining and picturing these inherently destructive cave ppl destroying themselves. Even if the earth is in complete ruins, once dem cretins are gone folk can still rebuild this shyt as these pale, insidious human parasites won't be around to further cause damage.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

But I'm still struggling to see what your point is. Your own source said that the FIRST president of Liberia was considered no better than a slave in America, despite his light-skinned appearance.

better is relative but the fact remains, they were considered above "pure blacks" which is how/why they brought the same caste system (mulatto vs black) to Liberia

The SECOND president of Liberia was clearly a dark-skinned American. And numerous Americo-Liberian leaders afterwards (including the 5th and 6th presidents)

Liberia was ruled by mulattos; dark skinned ones outside of Benson came later. This was confirmed in real time by Crummell (dark skinned ADOS from the North) and Blyden (dark skinned west indian) who despised Liberian elite. Blyden compared the ruling elite (mulattos) of Liberia to the Mulattos that would gain control in Haiti after independence for the same exact reasons

Not seeing what y'alls endgame is here. You're trying to define hard lines when the lines CLEARLY were not hard. You simply can't deny that descendants of slaves who had been considered Black in America then became leaders in Liberia. Some early and some later. Your own sources said so.

Quite simple:


The segment that went to Liberia is different from the modern ADOS in the sense that it was a hodge-podge of people from the South that never saw jim crow or the one drop rule which lead to a segment of the population following plantation style politics that the ADOS who stayed in the USA and lived through Jim Crow would eradicate



The modern AfroAmerican indentity was fully crystallized THROUGH & AFTER Jim Crow & Reconstruction. W/o those 2 factors (which ADOS who went to Liberia never faced), ADOS would have never fully became "black" in the way that bypassed phenotypes

Spoiler

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^^^^that's fully formed ADOS identity who lived/came through Jim Crowism

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On the flip side

They would still be doing weird shyt like what the ADOS imported to Liberia based on PRE-JIM CROW/ONE DROP RULE slave system dynamic, experiences


Even darker skinned Americo-Liberians (ADOS) suffered to a degree

Edward Roye was a dark skinned Americo-Liberian

Joseph Roberts was a light skinned Americo-Liberian from the South

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more context

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that's pretty much how pre-Jim Crow/One Drop, South operated in the USA





ADOS who went to Liberia came up in that dynamic; the ADOS who lived through Jim Crow, birthed the MODERN ADOS identity

 

[viktordoomsecretwars]

Indians also catching hell from these Ukranians. Only allowing white foreigners to get on the trains

 

[viktordoomsecretwars]

Indians also catching hell from these Ukranians. Only

 

[Strapped]

Indians also catching hell from these Ukranians. Only allowing white foreigners to get on the trains

I hope the Indian government chooses wisely on what side they want to be on !