OutKast v Tribe Called Quest Verzuz Coming Soon?!

[BmoreGorilla]

I mean I followed Kast from the beginning. Saw them live before they blew up. They didn’t really get “alternative” to me until Atliens.. I’m cool with putting them in that umbrella if you want though. Looking at Tribes history though, 3000 was always 3000 but he couldn’t come into the game like that so he just eased into it.

I followed Kast from the beginning too. Got their first album off the strength of their 4 1/2 mic rating in the Source. While yes they were rapping about pimps and playas and shyt their was a certain level of consciousness too it. They took what the Native Tongues were doing and added a southern twist to it. But they were more like Tribe than they were 8ball and MJG. And I don’t think Andre made an effort to tone down who he was in the beginning becuz I don’t think that’s who he was yet. He was just a regular kid right out of hs. He didn’t really start going in the eccentric direction till he got with Badu and came into his own. Also the crazy thing about that is Erykah was down with the Soulquarians and Tip was a founding member

 

[BmoreGorilla]

ehh
i remember tribe had their detractors for being too soft early on.

not on the level as PM Dawn tho.
plus tribe was str8 hip-hop, new york, zulu nation, etc
they also cut down on the extra-soft presentation after the 1st album.

Oh yea Tribe definitely had some detractors. A lot it had to do with the climate at the time. But by their peak in 91 92 93 they were prolly the first or second biggest group in the game second to only Naughty

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

And I don’t think Andre made an effort to tone down who he was in the beginning becuz I don’t think that’s who he was yet. He was just a regular kid right out of hs. He didn’t really start going in the eccentric direction till he got with Badu and came into his own. Also the crazy thing about that is Erykah was down with the Soulquarians and Tip was a founding member

when did he get with Badu tho??

cuz he was at the source awards dressed like mr wendell.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

when did he get with Badu tho??

cuz he was at the source awards dressed like mr wendell.

That Source Awards aired more than a year after their album dropped. He was with Badu at the time. They were together before she even dropped an album but she used to open for D’angelo before she even had a deal. I wanna say they were together for like 3 or 4 years. You can hear a clear difference with Andre from their first to second albums and she definitely played a part in that

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

Oh yea Tribe definitely had some detractors. A lot it had to do with the climate at the time. But by their peak in 91 92 93 they were prolly the first or second biggest group in the game second to only Naughty

ONYX was the biggest group in '93.
i'd argue black moon over tribe in '93 as well, especially since alot of their fans migrated over to black moon.
wutang too.

public enemy & NWA were still huge in '91.
of course naughty was the biggest of that overall time period, as you said.

but yea, tribe was steady in the contenders circle tho.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

ONYX was the biggest group in '93.
i'd argue black moon over tribe in '93 as well, especially since alot of their fans migrated over to black moon.
wutang too.

public enemy & NWA were still huge in '91.
of course naughty was the biggest of that overall time period, as you said.

but yea, tribe was steady in the contenders circle tho.

I forgot about Onyx. I can’t agree with you on Black Moon tho over Tribe tho


Black Moons debut dropped around the same time as Midnight Marauders. Black Moon didn’t have any singles as big as Award Tour or Electric Relaxation. You can argue I Got You Open remix was close tho

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

I forgot about Onyx. I can’t agree with you on Black Moon tho over Tribe tho

Black Moons debut dropped around the same time as Midnight Marauders. Black Moon didn’t have any singles as big as Award Tour or Electric Relaxation. You can argue I Got You Open remix was close tho

i mean, its not like either group was putting up big numbers.

black moon was hotter in the streets, rode off with alot of tribe's fans and set the table for the new era/sound of the east coast for the next few years......all while tribe began their decline in popularity.
tribe had a lil more reach commercially cuz they were in like year 4-5. thats the most i could say, TBH. tribe had those two hits, but they werent neccessarily bigger than "i got you open remix", aside from having a lil more reach.

so yea, i'd still give the slight edge to black moon for that year.

 

[JustCKing]

Unless you weren’t really a hip hop fan like my mother and AD appealed to you for different reasons

And boom, this is what I was getting at about him using AD to paint this picture of Kast as group that connected with people who didn't like Hip Hop. This is not to say that Kast doesn't have those fans, but it has NOTHING to do with them inheriting AD's fan base, because a lot of those fans have never heard of AD.

 

[JustCKing]

I don’t think he’s saying Kast is like AD but they both fell under that alternative hip hop umbrella. If you liked AD you prolly really liked Kast. Unless you weren’t really a hip hop fan like my mother and AD appealed to you for different reasons

He is saying that though. Why not just say Kast inherited the Native Tongues fan base and be done with it and there's no argument. He's using the whole AD schtick because

1) He knows that it will lead to arguments

2) It discredits Kast because nobody really brings up Arrested Development in Hip Hop discussions

He is playing innocent with the whole AD narrative, which is him throwing rocks and attempting to hide his hand. Yes, Arrested Development falls under the alternative Hip Hop umbrella as does some of Kast's music, but anything that wasn't gangsta rap fell under that umbrella at one point.

Only thing on this post that I don't agree with is that someone who really liked Arrested Development would really like Kast.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

And boom, this is what I was getting at about him using AD to paint this picture of Kast as group that connected with people who didn't like Hip Hop. This is not to say that Kast doesn't have those fans, but it has NOTHING to do with them inheriting AD's fan base, because a lot of those fans have never heard of AD.

At some point Kast did connect with people who weren’t into hip hop. But that was years later. But the people who liked Kast and not hip hop and were white. The people who liked AD but not hip hop were black

 

[JustCKing]

yes you did, you little fakkit.

heres the quote:

Where in that post did I say Kast didn't connect with those fans? I was stating that that is the point you were trying to make by using this bogus AD narrative. That point could be made without ever mentioning AD. Your mention of AD and mentioning Kast fans that exist outside of Hip Hop is your way of devaluing and discrediting the group.

you said that chit. thats why buddy responded to you the way he did.
you throw so much chit at the wall, you dont even know what you be typing.

also, i never said that arrested development fans didnt listen to hip-hop.

that correlation is something i would say about the later outkast stuff when they were selling the most records of their career.

Even when Kast was selling most of their records, there was nothing of AD in their style.

the bolded didnt make any sense the last time you said it.

and it looks even sillier now, seeing how youre completly contradicting what youre saying in the un-bolded sentence before it.

just admit that you really dont know what youre talking about and fallback already.

When OutKast came out, they sounded nor looked anything like Tribe. Arrested was a closer relative. Kast had more of a West Coast flavor to their style when they came out. It was more of a Souls of Mischief meets Pharcyde vibe to their flow and style meets G Funk production with a Southern twang to it. After Southernplayalistic, their sound became more Southern, earthy, and spacey.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

He is saying that though. Why not just say Kast inherited the Native Tongues fan base and be done with it and there's no argument. He's using the whole AD schtick because

1) He knows that it will lead to arguments

2) It discredits Kast because nobody really brings up Arrested Development in Hip Hop discussions

He is playing innocent with the whole AD narrative, which is him throwing rocks and attempting to hide his hand. Yes, Arrested Development falls under the alternative Hip Hop umbrella as does some of Kast's music, but anything that wasn't gangsta rap fell under that umbrella at one point.

Only thing on this post that I don't agree with is that someone who really liked Arrested Development would really like Kast.

Not everything that wasn’t gangsta rap was labeled alternative. Not until Big do I ever remember anything outside the west coast being described as gangsta rap except for the Geto Boys

 

[JustCKing]

But the people who liked Kast and not hip hop and were white. The people who liked AD but not hip hop were black

This is false. Completely false. White people loved Arrested Development, but they didn't like Hip Hop as did some Black people. There are older Black people who like Kast, but don't listen to Hip Hop. You can't tell me that a lot of us don't love songs like "Prototype" or "The Way You Move"

Not everything that wasn’t gangsta rap was labeled alternative. Not until Big do I ever remember anything outside the west coast being described as gangsta rap except for the Geto Boys

What was alternative Hip Hop an alternative to?

 

[JustCKing]

And this the big difference between Kast and Arrested is Arrested didn't get Hip Hop coverage. I don't think they got a Source cover or rating in that magazine. I'm not even sure if Vibe covered them and they covered R&B and other genres as well. This group sold 4 million records and got Grammys and topped critic polls in 1992 for their debut. Yet, they were neglected by Hip Hop. You can't say them same for Kast.

And the most telling difference is this:

As a result, we find reasons not to like the South. If it ain’t afro-pretentious Arrested Development, it’s Kris Kross.

The Source |Record Report: Outkast's 'Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik' Review, July 1994

^^^ excerpt from the 4.5 mic review of Kast's debut. But youngot people in here running with the narrative that "if you really liked Arrested Development, then you really liked OutKast".

 

[BmoreGorilla]

This is false. Completely false. White people loved Arrested Development, but they didn't like Hip Hop as did some Black people. There are older Black people who like Kast, but don't listen to Hip Hop. You can't tell me that a lot of us don't love songs like "Prototype" or "The Way You Move"



What was alternative Hip Hop an alternative to?

You might be right AD had white fans but I wouldn’t know. What I saw first hand was older black folks who didn’t like hip hop but they liked them. And yea there were older black people who got into Kast late but that wasn’t the fan base that pushed them to the heights they reached post 2000. That was white folks

And that alternative label wasn’t just applied to anybody who wasn’t gangsta rap. If that was the case EPMD woulda been called gangsta rap


That alternative label was applied to the acts that didn’t make the stereotypical hip hop at the time. At the time gangsta rap was strictly applied to west coast acts who called it reality rap at the time. Gangsta rap was some media shyt. Not even Onyx or Kool G Rap were labeled that