One Has to Go: Wu-Tang, Mobb Deep, NWA, Gangstarr

[FlimFlam]

Mobb deep....u take anyone else off you changing the course of hip hop

Hell, mobb deep sound like they do because of gangstarr

 

[surv2syn]

anyone saying Gangstarr, probably was not around when they blew up. Wild Pitch was ok small label but they couldnt contain Gangstarr. Gangstarr had mass appeal, pardon the pun. There was a bidding war and they signed with Chrysalis, a label who could expose them more to the masses. This was SUPER important because there were very few underground/HIP HOP groups that were moving units nationwide without a massive amount of radio play, especially from the East Coast because the West was running shyt by that time as far as sales. Only ones I can think of was EPMD and Eric B and Rakim. Neither Tribe nor Brand Nubian were moving units like that during that time. P.E. was, but they like LL and Run DMC were getting airplay.

Right there, Preemo starts his incomparable run on the boards. Working with any and everyone at the time while introducing new artists like Jeru and taking existing artists like M.O.P. to another level. Only because Preem was so great is why Guru was so overlooked as a good producer/composer/engineer in his own right, who brought us Jazzmatazz and along with Preemo helped usher in the fusion of Hip Hop/Jazz. I dont think people realize how many people Guru worked with and how extensive his production and engineering credits are.

 

[Sweet Pea]

the problem is, youre speaking from the perspective of someone who didn't get into rap until about a decade or more later and making assumptions based on what is taught by Viacom & such.

people in real-time knew all about schooly d. youre under the impression that he was some local yocal. these rappers that youre speaking on were around in real-time and know better. I have footage of him being mentioned by MTV for pete's sake.

NWA themselves are on record multiple times, speaking on the influence that schooly d had on them.

and btw, NWA is the last group that I would get rid of on this list. im just saying, they get too much credit.
similar to the way Rakim gets way more credit than he deserves, because people don't care to learn their history.





dog, artists are influenced by lots of different artists. not just one act.
but clearly death row wasn't the main influence over bad boy and its not even close. but people tend to pick & choose what they want to run with. puffy gave death row props for one thing, and then people run with is as if they were death row disciples. nevermind the fact that bad boy and a slew of other labels were directly modeled after uptown records. nobody talks about that on these forums tho.

did dj pooh teach king tee how to rap?? and did dre give those pointers to pooh??? youre doing a lot of reaching with that one.

Nah I’m not saying Schoolly is local. How could he be local when he was getting play out in LA. Older and active nikkas fukked definitely fukked with PSK. But I’m saying those artists would get more credit due to him being from Philly. Philly’s contribution and talent has always been underrated. That’s how artists like Jay Z or Wayne were able to just bite and take from them with minimal backlash. If it wasn’t for Schoolly my city would’ve still been doing that corny ass Egyptian Lover type shyt or biting Run DMC and the Beastie Boys.

I’ll fall back on the Bad Boy and Big point because you’re right Uptown was the direct template for Bad Boy. From the mixing rap and R&B to the similarities between Heavy D and Biggie, etc...

As for Pooh DJ Pooh: Friday To Friday To Monday Morning he says it in this interview that he learned from Dre.

 

[Grand Eeezus Maxwell]

I’ll gladly sacrifice the Mobb, as it would wipe out a third of Pac stans’ fatherless weirdness. I’d miss their albums, but I’ll get over it. And ALC is a Muggs creation, so he’ll still be around.

 

[surv2syn]

i seem to be misunderstood. im not arguing about any of that stuff(altho I could care less about cubeVision and some overpriced headphones).

I was shutting down the idea that the mobb deeps, wutangs, etc wouldn't exist without NWA. that was some str8 bullchit. thats what i was arguing about.

you see what im saying now??

​

yea I see what youre getting at.
good stuff.

juvenile hell was like '94 tho.​

yeah, meant to say 93 with JH because I knew of them when they were Poetical Prophets back in 90. first single "Peer Pressure" came in 92, incidentally produced by Preemo. Tragedy 2nd album came right after JH, and he was still basically Intelligent Hoodlum at the time and not yet fully converted his style over to what would be the Khadafi style. he was still a pretty political rapper while Mobb was already talking about shoot em up shyt. speaking of which, Hold Down the Fort was my favorite song on that album.

I was only following the premise, I never argued Mobb wouldnt exist without NWA, I dont even really see how they are connected. I am sure Mobb listened to NWA, but they created their own lane basically from east coast influences like EPMD, Gang Starr, and Schooly D. Up until that point, on the East Coast everyone was talking about girls or how dope of an MC they were. Mobb success was heavy influence on LOX because they realized they didnt have to get Jiggy with it to sell records.

 

[Zero]

Y'all really wanna live in a world with no Primo?

I'm already living in a world with no Prodigy

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

Right there, Preemo starts his incomparable run on the boards. Working with any and everyone at the time while introducing new artists like Jeru and taking existing artists like M.O.P. to another level.

meh

M.O.P. was better off with D.R. Period.

premo aint really get them nowhere.

Mobb deep....u take anyone else off you changing the course of hip hop

Hell, mobb deep sound like they do because of gangstarr

I agree. mobb deep is the least important.

im just not that big on gangstarr, nor their spinoffs.

and i'd take dre, rza & peak havoc over premo.

Nah I’m not saying Schoolly is local. How could he be local when he was getting play out in LA. Older and active nikkas fukked definitely fukked with PSK. But I’m saying those artists would get more credit due to him being from Philly. Philly’s contribution and talent has always been underrated. That’s how artists like Jay Z or Wayne were able to just bite and take from them with minimal backlash. If it wasn’t for Schoolly my city would’ve still been doing that corny ass Egyptian Lover type shyt or biting Run DMC and the Beastie Boys.

I’ll fall back on the Bad Boy and Big point because you’re right Uptown was the direct template for Bad Boy. From the mixing rap and R&B to the similarities between Heavy D and Biggie, etc...

As for Pooh DJ Pooh: Friday To Friday To Monday Morning he says it in this interview that he learned from Dre.

I was only following the premise, I never argued Mobb wouldnt exist without NWA, I dont even really see how they are connected. I am sure Mobb listened to NWA, but they created their own lane basically from east coast influences like EPMD, Gang Starr, and Schooly D. Up until that point, on the East Coast everyone was talking about girls or how dope of an MC they were. Mobb success was heavy influence on LOX because they realized they didnt have to get Jiggy with it to sell records.

I totally agree with these posts.

I think I was just misunderstood yesterday.

my whole thing was, people cant credit NWA for those east coast acts. we were already on that tip before NWA. hell, NWA started out writing for an east coast street group. thas sallimsayin.

and yea, philly stays getting jacked and pushed to the background.

 

[get these nets]

anyone saying Gangstarr, probably was not around when they blew up. Wild Pitch was ok small label but they couldnt contain Gangstarr. Gangstarr had mass appeal, pardon the pun. There was a bidding war and they signed with Chrysalis, a label who could expose them more to the masses. This was SUPER important because there were very few underground/HIP HOP groups that were moving units nationwide without a massive amount of radio play, especially from the East Coast because the West was running shyt by that time as far as sales. Only ones I can think of was EPMD and Eric B and Rakim. Neither Tribe nor Brand Nubian were moving units like that during that time. P.E. was, but they like LL and Run DMC were getting airplay.

Right there, Preemo starts his incomparable run on the boards. Working with any and everyone at the time while introducing new artists like Jeru and taking existing artists like M.O.P. to another level. Only because Preem was so great is why Guru was so overlooked as a good producer/composer/engineer in his own right, who brought us Jazzmatazz and along with Preemo helped usher in the fusion of Hip Hop/Jazz. I dont think people realize how many people Guru worked with and how extensive his production and engineering credits are.

"Remember to get a lawyer, so problems won't pile
you don't want to make a pitch that's wild"
Diamond D airing them out on "The Bizness" from Tribe's second album

Good rundown on why you like Gangstarr. That's my era also, but they are the obvious group that has to go. Wu and NWA casts shadows too big and music legacies too deep to even think about tossing either of them. partly because classic albums came out of those camps.Not singles, not remixes, but albums.
How many classic albums would you say came out of the Gangstarr camp?
I say 2............Daily Operation and The Sun Rises In The East

 

[surv2syn]

"Remember to get a lawyer, so problems won't pile
you don't want to make a pitch that's wild"
Diamond D airing them out on "The Bizness" from Tribe's second album

Good rundown on why you like Gangstarr. That's my era also, but they are the obvious group that has to go. Wu and NWA casts shadows too big and music legacies too deep to even think about tossing either of them. partly because classic albums came out of those camps.Not singles, not remixes, but albums.
How many classic albums would you say came out of the Gangstarr camp?
I say 2............Daily Operation and The Sun Rises In The East

To me all 4 of their 90’s albums were classics

 

[DMGAINGREEN]

Premier not better than Havoc & tbh it's couple of nikkas from his own era that I would put before Premier . I don't understand old nikkas fascination with overrating him .

Gotta be Mobb Deep. Don't really see any other logical option here.

I like Mobb Deep more than Gangstarr but Premier has produced waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more shyt than Havoc.

People are wilding the fukk out saying NWA. You go down a rabbit hole that completely alters damn near everything after that.

Fred.

 

[hex]

Premier not better than Havoc & tbh it's couple of nikkas from his own era that I would put before Premier . I don't understand old nikkas fascination with overrating him .

It has nothing to do with who is better. And Primo is better, but that's not the point.

Havoc ain't produced even 1/10th of what Primo has. No Gangstarr = no Primo. Meaning every song he ever produced ("Nas Is Like", "Kick In The Door", "10 Crack Commandments", "NY State Of Mind", "Memory Lane", "Unbelievable", "D'Evils", "Devil's Pie", )....matter of fact, let me stop. There's too many songs to name. All those songs either no longer exist, or they have some other random beat.

Fred.

 

[DMGAINGREEN]

Primo is not a better producer than Hav on a technical level . Primo was great at sample flips but dudes like Hav and Rza were just as good and his drums was very bland/boring and Hav clearly has an advantage over him on that level you would be delusional to deny that. I don't want to make it seem like denouncing his legacy but I just feel like it was dudes that was better than him on a sonical level .

It has nothing to do with who is better. And Primo is better, but that's not the point.

Havoc ain't produced even 1/10th of what Primo has. No Gangstarr = no Primo. Meaning every song he ever produced ("Nas Is Like", "Kick In The Door", "10 Crack Commandments", "NY State Of Mind", "Memory Lane", "Unbelievable", "D'Evils", "Devil's Pie", )....matter of fact, let me stop. There's too many songs to name. All those songs either no longer exist, or they have some other random beat.

Fred.

 

[Jards]

Gangstarr.

Death Row from Deep Cover to Makaveli. Wu-Tang from 36 to Supreme Clientele. Mobb Deep first 2 albums.

Gangstarr’s got to go.

 

[hex]

Gangstarr.

Death Row from Deep Cover to Makaveli. Wu-Tang from 36 to Supreme Clientele. Mobb Deep first 2 albums.

Gangstarr’s got to go.

No "Nas Is Like", "Kick In The Door", "10 Crack Commandments", "NY State Of Mind", "Memory Lane", "Unbelievable", "D'Evils", "Devil's Pie", "D. Original", "Come Clean"....the list goes on.

Fred.

 

[Jards]

No "Nas Is Like", "Kick In The Door", "10 Crack Commandments", "NY State Of Mind", "Memory Lane", "Unbelievable", "D'Evils", "Devil's Pie", "D. Original", "Come Clean"....the list goes on.

Fred.

I consume music as bodies of work, not on song by song basis

yep those tracks are classic but they weren’t necessarily career making for those artists. Those artists would still make classic music regardless of those tracks.

Without Dre there is no Death Row, Without Wu-Tang there is no classic 7 album streak, and Havoc created the QB sound with the first two Mobb albums.

Note how you also didn’t state any Gangstarr tracks or albums? Just shows most of Premos most renowned work is outside his group. I’m gonna hold my hands up and say although I love individual Gangstarr tracks (Mass Appeal and DWYCK, etc) - I’ve never listened to a whole project front to back. Guru is too monotonous as an MC and Premo’s production hasn’t been enough for me to look past that.

just my opinion though.