Official Watchmen Thread

[Json]

I didn't mean literal heroes and literal villains... more like how Veidt in the graphic novel was technically a villain, but really a hero if you want to use perspective. I am speaking in that vein.... I believe in the minds of Lady Trieu and Reeves, they are the big heros by doing whatever they supposed to be doing, but it'll be morally corrupt whereas the 7th Cavalry maybe doing what people presume as morally corrupt, but actually heroic. And I believe that Angela is going to be pitted in the middle.

Basically it'll be the whole Rorschach vs Veidt debate again where Rorschach want society to know the absolute truth whereas Veidt felt the need that society need to be lied to in order to save themselves. So, just my prediction or suspicion, Lady Trieu and Reeves, following in the same vein as Veidt is most likely going to use the huge clock as a brainwashing projector to control society and strip them away from free will, even if it mean for them to live in a utopia. Whereas, the 7th Cavalry are truth tellers and they are set to expose that society's entire reality been an absolute lie, the same way they exposed this truth to Looking Glass, but they're intending to do it in a grander scale, not too sure what, but the transporting devices are key in their reveal of the truth to society.

So, this leaves Angela to decide which is more important? A total society that lives in peace but loses all free will, and have no control in their lives whatsoever? OR be exposed to the TRUTH about everything and bring society into likely chaos as a result?

That doesn’t track for one obvious reason.

Keene has the video. He could have exposed the lie at any point. Which would back up Rorshach’s journal.

 

[Json]

I think Trieu and Reeve want to make a psychic traumatic event.

As we see, the Squid affected everyone differently. People just drive thru the squid rains. People who were directly affected by the wave still are affected.

Now just do what Angela went through on a worldwide level and no one will forget. It will be passed through generations like Will to Angela. And it never actually happened.

 

[gluvnast]

So to sum up this post. You saw some gay stuff happen and nothing else matters.


Hooded Justice wasn’t going to get crap done no matter what. For the same reason Will Reeves the police officer wasn’t.

The system protects itself.

Will knew who the Cyclops members in the police force were but just like that white desk clerk he was told to leave it alone. He could have exposed them at any moment. But the word of a black man isn’t going do anything.

HJ could have exposed them too. But that’s not what the Minutemen are for. They’re just props to sell government bonds with squeaky clean images.

Metropolis is the same as that desk clerk. Just trying to get along.

HJ only protected a small area of New York. He was never going to stop a nation wide shadow organization like the KKK. He only realized that after he’d lost everything to try.

So you are right he did lose credibility with Metropolis. Cause he thought a fellow hero would be different from the same corrupt system he was already in.

But that's the thing. Will Reeves was inspired by Bass Reeves and the silent movie his entire life since the Tulsa Massacre. He became Hooded Justice because of that inspiration. But the PROBLEM of that silent film was that it never reflected reality to begin with. So, Will Reeves was being LIED to the entire time until he gotten that wake up call after the fact. Remember, the silent film shown a hooded Bass Reeves capturing the crooked white sheriff. The WHITE townspeople PRAISED the BLACK Bass Reeves. Then that same townspeople was demanding that the sheriff to be lynched, but Bass Reeves told them no, and that it must be about justice. That was what Will Reeves embodied, yet because of witnessing the massacre always was bubbling under, hence those flash scenes that pop up in the episode. The thing you have to address that no matter what, Will Reeves yearned to be accepted into a white society. Mr. Metropolis took advantage of Reeves' desire and seduced him. The moment Reeves finally realized that Mr. Metropolis never cared for the justice he been fighting for was the moment he divorced himself from his hero Bass Reeves who was all about justice, and that's when Will Reeves decided to go the vengeance rout and start killing his enemies.

So, it's not so much that the system protect itself. That's we all know. It's that Will Reeves was naive to think that he can fit in that kind of system and that the system. Even as a vigilante, he put on white-face just to assimilate into white acceptance. Had he not been so much caught up trying to be accepted, even sexually.... the whole projector plot wouldn't of succeeded. He would of killed those devils on sight and burned up everything. Not a whole decade later when it was well too late.

 

[gluvnast]

That doesn’t track for one obvious reason.

Keene has the video. He could have exposed the lie at any point. Which would back up Rorshach’s journal.

Again, which side Senator Keene is on? And Keene has political objectives too so you know the old Jay-Z saying, "we don't believe you, we need more people". If the government was able to shut down the validity of Rorschach's journal when it was publicized, then what make you think Keene by himself can do it? Being the fact he's leading the 7th Cavalry, he's clearly want to expose the truth on a grand scale overall.

 

[Json]

But that's the thing. Will Reeves was inspired by Bass Reeves and the silent movie his entire life since the Tulsa Massacre. He became Hooded Justice because of that inspiration. But the PROBLEM of that silent film was that it never reflected reality to begin with. So, Will Reeves was being LIED to the entire time until he gotten that wake up call after the fact. Remember, the silent film shown a hooded Bass Reeves capturing the crooked white sheriff. The WHITE townspeople PRAISED the BLACK Bass Reeves. Then that same townspeople was demanding that the sheriff to be lynched, but Bass Reeves told them no, and that it must be about justice. That was what Will Reeves embodied, yet because of witnessing the massacre always was bubbling under, hence those flash scenes that pop up in the episode. The thing you have to address that no matter what, Will Reeves yearned to be accepted into a white society. Mr. Metropolis took advantage of Reeves' desire and seduced him. The moment Reeves finally realized that Mr. Metropolis never cared for the justice he been fighting for was the moment he divorced himself from his hero Bass Reeves who was all about justice, and that's when Will Reeves decided to go the vengeance rout and start killing his enemies.

So, it's not so much that the system protect itself. That's we all know. It's that Will Reeves was naive to think that he can fit in that kind of system and that the system. Even as a vigilante, he put on white-face just to assimilate into white acceptance. Had he not been so much caught up trying to be accepted, even sexually.... the whole projector plot wouldn't of succeeded. He would of killed those devils on sight and burned up everything. Not a whole decade later when it was well too late.

You are right. He was naive. He believed in a fake hero on the screen over his reality.

You are still missing the point though. The projector project doesn’t matter.

The KKK were in Tulsa as a child.
The KKK were in the police.
The KKK were in that factory project.

He was never going to beat them. He thought HJ going to the Minutemen would give him a national spotlight so he exposed himself. He went from some supernatural creatures like the reporter asked to just a man. Metropolis betrayed him as a hero and a gay man.

 

[gluvnast]

I think Trieu and Reeve want to make a psychic traumatic event.

As we see, the Squid affected everyone differently. People just drive thru the squid rains. People who were directly affected by the wave still are affected.

Now just do what Angela went through on a worldwide level and no one will forget. It will be passed through generations like Will to Angela. And it never actually happened.

I think both Trieu and Reeves both want vengeance. I am willing to bet that the next episode is going to show what really happened in the aftermath of Vietnam becoming a State. I mean the use of the projector is going to be a clue to what they're going to do.

Whereas, the 7th Calvary are the one that I suspect want tot make a traumatic event to open people's eyes to the truth because of how society been affected from the squid incident. I am willing to bet part of it is going to expose that those raining squids are nothing more than the government using one of those transporting devices.

 

[Json]

Again, which side Senator Keene is on? And Keene has political objectives too so you know the old Jay-Z saying, "we don't believe you, we need more people". If the government was able to shut down the validity of Rorschach's journal when it was publicized, then what make you think Keene by himself can do it? Being the fact he's leading the 7th Cavalry, he's clearly want to expose the truth on a grand scale overall.

Keene isn’t some crazed man in a mask.

His father and his name hold clout. On top of the video he would have killed Redford’s narrative.

So yeah. He has political goals that don’t involve truth telling. He’s as manipulative as Trieu. Which is in line with the motif of Moore’s Watchmen. The truth is fluid and objective.

 

[Rekkapryde]

So to sum up this post. You saw some gay stuff happen and nothing else matters.


Hooded Justice wasn’t going to get crap done no matter what. For the same reason Will Reeves the police officer wasn’t.

The system protects itself.

Will knew who the Cyclops members in the police force were but just like that white desk clerk he was told to leave it alone. He could have exposed them at any moment. But the word of a black man isn’t going do anything.

HJ could have exposed them too. But that’s not what the Minutemen are for. They’re just props to sell government bonds with squeaky clean images.

Metropolis is the same as that desk clerk. Just trying to get along.

HJ only protected a small area of New York. He was never going to stop a nation wide shadow organization like the KKK. He only realized that after he’d lost everything to try.

So you are right he did lose credibility with Metropolis. Cause he thought a fellow hero would be different from the same corrupt system he was already in.

Allo this could have been done or told without dude being made gay. Yes, hj was alluded to being gay in the comic but he was also white. So just as he was made black in this show to differ from the comic, they could have done the same with his sexual orientation. Especially considering the trauma and bullshyt cacs put him thru. the only time we truly see that he may have been non Harlem is the business card scene but for the end of it to shift IMMEDIATELY to blowing his back out!!?!! Cmon man. These cacs killed his parents and other innocent black people, hung him, and just were doing cac shyt all around and I'm supposed to believe some gay repressed sexuality just comes out of nowhere with Metro trying to hollar to the point he fukkin him in the ass the next scene?

 

[O.T.I.S.]

This episode.... o don’t even know what to say about it.

I kinda saw it coming with the subliminals with the nooses buy this shyt went left quick

so much fukked up shyt....

 

[gluvnast]

You are right. He was naive. He believed in a fake hero on the screen over his reality.

You are still missing the point though. The projector project doesn’t matter.

The KKK were in Tulsa as a child.
The KKK were in the police.
The KKK were in that factory project.

He was never going to beat them. He thought HJ going to the Minutemen would give him a national spotlight so he exposed himself. He went from some supernatural creatures like the reporter asked to just a man. Metropolis betrayed him as a hero and a gay man.

I wasn't saying he going to beat the system though. I said it is because of him yearning to be accepted and being seduced by a white man, he couldn't be true hero to the (black) people like he should of been. Like, had he killed the Cyclop Klan members from the offset, they wouldn't be able to mass produce projectors and spread them across black communities nationwide. That could of been prevented. His heroics, in fact, in my opinion could of inspired more BLACK HEROES than the white ones that eventually became the Minutemen. But he was masquerading as a white superhero. So, EVERYTHING was flawed about him.

 

[Json]

Allo this could have been done or told without dude being made gay. Yes, hj was alluded to being gay in the comic but he was also white. So just as he was made black in this show to differ from the comic, they could have done the same with his sexual orientation. Especially considering the trauma and bullshyt cacs put him thru. the only time we truly see that he may have been non Harlem is the business card scene but for the end of it to shift IMMEDIATELY to blowing his back out!!?!! Cmon man. These cacs killed his parents and other innocent black people, hung him, and just were doing cac shyt all around and I'm supposed to believe some gay repressed sexuality just comes out of nowhere with Metro trying to hollar to the point he fukkin him in the ass the next scene?

I agree. The narrative would have ended the same way with Metropolis just fame hungry.

It was just a narrative choice to breakdown everything about him. He lost the girl he swore to protect, lost his HJ identity, exposed his sexuality, lost son, lost his police career. Etc.

 

[Json]

I wasn't saying he going to beat the system though. I said it is because of him yearning to be accepted and being seduced by a white man, he couldn't be true hero to the (black) people like he should of been. Like, had he killed the Cyclop Klan members from the offset, they wouldn't be able to mass produce projectors and spread them across black communities nationwide. That could of been prevented. His heroics, in fact, in my opinion could of inspired more BLACK HEROES than the white ones that eventually became the Minutemen. But he was masquerading as a white superhero. So, EVERYTHING was flawed about him.

I agree. The point I was pushing against was that him being gay was some turning point.

Like you said, it was flawed from jump.

He couldn’t be a black hero cause that wouldn’t hold weight in society. The same way Battle didn’t overturn the internal corruption of the police. He inspired Will but that wasn’t enough.

He gave in and made himself white for acceptance as a hero and it just slid down from there.

There was no win.

 

[gluvnast]

Keene isn’t some crazed man in a mask.

His father and his name hold clout. On top of the video he would have killed Redford’s narrative.

So yeah. He has political goals that don’t involve truth telling. He’s as manipulative as Trieu. Which is in line with the motif of Moore’s Watchmen. The truth is fluid and objective.

I agree 100% that he's as manipulative as Trieu. But I believe he's on the opposite end from what Trieu is doing. I mean, he did not have to fake the assassination attempt either, but he did just serve two reasons which is to boost his political clout and to appear to be as distant from the 7th Cavalry as possible. And again, the video wouldn't be enough, because the government would of buried it the same way they buried the journal when that was publicized. It had to be something big for society to be awaken. Even at the end of the previous episode, Looking Glass ended up becoming conflicted as to what WAS the truth which was why he came back to grab his alarm from the garbage can. So it's not that simple as showing a video. A video can be doctored, special effects... plausible deniability. They're going to do something massive.

 

[JMurder]

Allo this could have been done or told without dude being made gay. Yes, hj was alluded to being gay in the comic but he was also white. So just as he was made black in this show to differ from the comic, they could have done the same with his sexual orientation. Especially considering the trauma and bullshyt cacs put him thru. the only time we truly see that he may have been non Harlem is the business card scene but for the end of it to shift IMMEDIATELY to blowing his back out!!?!! Cmon man. These cacs killed his parents and other innocent black people, hung him, and just were doing cac shyt all around and I'm supposed to believe some gay repressed sexuality just comes out of nowhere with Metro trying to hollar to the point he fukkin him in the ass the next scene?

He was gay in the comic. I don't get why you guys are so adamant to belabor that point. He was not a main character for it to matter to specifically state that he was gay and for the time period that he was in it's not something that would be publicized or promoted. There's a reason Alan Moore wrote The Watchmen the way he did and any true reader of the book would agree that Hooded Justice and Captain Metropolis had an undercover relationship when they were in the Minutemen. You don't need to be told something is true when you're being smacked in the face with all of the underlying facts of the situation.

In regards to the show, I'd like you to explain to me where Will showed a disdain for white people. He joined the police as the only black man, in an all-white force, and seemingly had no problem working with them. Even after he was nearly lynched, the very first thing he did was save a white couple from an attempted assault and robbery. You're trying to coincide his hate for racists for his hate for white people (which he didn't appear to have) in order to make the point that his homosexual relationship with a white man makes no sense. That's incorrect.

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

I think what's lost here is that Will was never meant to be more than a flawed character, Angela to this point is the character who has maintained her integrity..

Blake is flawed as shyt too.