Official 'JUSTICE LEAGUE' Thread

[Bruce Wayne]

The Aquaman and Batman Pops look dope

I already Collect other things for Comic Books and Comic Book Movies, I always wanted to begin a Funko Collection but I really just do not know where to Start. I've already missed out on so many Gems.

 

[Norrin Radd]

where does that screenshot come from? i've seen this vid on youtube before and that still bugs me lmao

Right? I googled everything I could think of but I still couldn't find it. I did find this though

which is fan art someone did and while it's not the same pic, it leads me to assume the capture is from another piece of fan art.

 

[obarth]

When exactly did he go back to save the world? Was it when he saved his girlfriend from falling off a building? When he fought and was potentially going to kill Batman to save his mother? Or was it when he was going to ignore whatever was going on in Metropolis to go save his mother before being told by Batman where he should be? Maybe it was when he showed up with a personal vendetta against Lex and only fought "Doomsday" because his life and later Lisa's life was in danger.

Bottom line if they wanted to show him choosing to be a savior for the world at that point they needed to remove selfish motivations for his actions that could obscure that point.

This is what I was expecting the other dude to reply with. It's a decent rebuttal, but of course you had to go overboard with the "selfish motivations" shyt. Batman fights crime because his parents died. Spiderman fights crime because his uncle was killed. I can keep going. It's a superhero trope at this point that the loved ones of superheroes are used as pawns by bad guys. Pepper Potts, Jane Foster, T'Chaka, etc. But to your point and where it falls apart, the world wasn't in need of saving until Doomsday emerged. So all of the shyt you posted prior to that is moot. He was going to ignore whatever was going on in Metropolis to go save his mother? Did you even take a second to think about that one? Pretty much anyone is going to save their mother over investigating "whatever is going on" elsewherePlus realistically, Clark could have saved his mom and been at the scene in Metropolis before Batwing's engines started roaring up. He saved Lex's life and started fighting Doomsday immediately, so you were definitely reaching with that alternative facts last point

But to the point, I've been posting about choices this entire time. The nikka is hit with a nuclear missile fired by the same people he's tryna save. He regains consciousness and continues the fight. When the final choice comes, with the woman you claim he makes a priority pleading for him not to, he picks up a spear( containing the shyt he knows can kill him at this point) and charges Doomsday...dying in the process.

Before the reply based on the semantics of me saying he came back to save the world when he actually initially came back to save Lois: the way was paved for his return before Lois was put in danger. But context first: at the end of Man of Steel we get glimmers of that positivity everyone is bytching never existed. He destroys the spy satellite and tells the general he wants to help but it has to be by his terms. Then we see him introduced at the Daily Planet smiling ear to ear to end the movie. He saved the world. Everything is good. Then BvS starts and everything is not so Gucci. The world has started to respond to his existence/actions and the response is not all positive. Some idolize him while others demonize him. He continues acting in the name of what he believes is good regardless. Then the shyt with the Congress hearing occurs and he's broken. He goes on his spirit walk where he encounters his dad. His dad tells him the story of his farm being on the verge of a flood that would ruin their harvest. He and his dad avert it. He sees himself as a hero until he finds out their efforts flooded the farm closest to them. He hears the deaths of the animals in his dreams every night. It's supposed to be metaphoric, but is obvious as fukk. The hero doesn't get to be the hero the way the hero would prefer to be. The negative comes with the positive. They love you yet hate you, whether they know it's you they should be hating. Plus if he's focusing on it, he can hear the deaths of the thousands from MOS, literally. That scene was there for a reason. Clark realizes he can never make everyone happy but that doesn't deter him from doing what he feels is right, despite the outcome

 

[obarth]

Don't care if people like the movies or not, but research post histories and type paragraphs, brehs

I tell you these D.C. Stans and Clark kents are a hoot, they stay doin the most while complaining about other posters :marvelpachaha:

Don't make me do this to you, breh

 

[Makavalli]

When Justice League pays it off @Dominic Brehetto

Damn breh this shyt bout to make me marathon MOS and BVS ultimate edition

 

[chico25]

This is what I was expecting the other dude to reply with. It's a decent rebuttal, but of course you had to go overboard with the "selfish motivations" shyt. Batman fights crime because his parents died. Spiderman fights crime because his uncle was killed. I can keep going. It's a superhero trope at this point that the loved ones of superheroes are used as pawns by bad guys. Pepper Potts, Jane Foster, T'Chaka, etc. But to your point and where it falls apart, the world wasn't in need of saving until Doomsday emerged. So all of the shyt you posted prior to that is moot. He was going to ignore whatever was going on in Metropolis to go save his mother? Did you even take a second to think about that one? Pretty much anyone is going to save their mother over investigating "whatever is going on" elsewherePlus realistically, Clark could have saved his mom and been at the scene in Metropolis before Batwing's engines started roaring up. He saved Lex's life and started fighting Doomsday immediately, so you were definitely reaching with that alternative facts last point

But to the point, I've been posting about choices this entire time. The nikka is hit with a nuclear missile fired by the same people he's tryna save. He regains consciousness and continues the fight. When the final choice comes, with the woman you claim he makes a priority pleading for him not to, he picks up a spear( containing the shyt he knows can kill him at this point) and charges Doomsday...dying in the process.

Before the reply based on the semantics of me saying he came back to save the world when he actually initially came back to save Lois: the way was paved for his return before Lois was put in danger. But context first: at the end of Man of Steel we get glimmers of that positivity everyone is bytching never existed. He destroys the spy satellite and tells the general he wants to help but it has to be by his terms. Then we see him introduced at the Daily Planet smiling ear to ear to end the movie. He saved the world. Everything is good. Then BvS starts and everything is not so Gucci. The world has started to respond to his existence/actions and the response is not all positive. Some idolize him while others demonize him. He continues acting in the name of what he believes is good regardless. Then the shyt with the Congress hearing occurs and he's broken. He goes on his spirit walk where he encounters his dad. His dad tells him the story of his farm being on the verge of a flood that would ruin their harvest. He and his dad avert it. He sees himself as a hero until he finds out their efforts flooded the farm closest to them. He hears the deaths of the animals in his dreams every night. It's supposed to be metaphoric, but is obvious as fukk. The hero doesn't get to be the hero the way the hero would prefer to be. The negative comes with the positive. They love you yet hate you, whether they know it's you they should be hating. Plus if he's focusing on it, he can hear the deaths of the thousands from MOS, literally. That scene was there for a reason. Clark realizes he can never make everyone happy but that doesn't deter him from doing what he feels is right, despite the outcome

Good morning.

Just so you know and understand I'm not debating the merits of MOS or BvS as a whole or even the portrayal of Superman in those films. I'm simply discussing your premise that after his hallucination of his father on a mountain that Superman was shown to be fully committed to saving the world. So this reply will be solely based on events from that point of the movie.

You are correct that Superman didn't know exactly what was going on in Metropolis when he was choosing his mother over that event. What he did know is that Lex was crazy, Lex was at the ship and the ship was discharging energy like it could overload and possibly explode at any moment. He didn't know how long he had before the potential explosion or other dangerous event threatened potentially thousands of lives. He knew exactly how much time he had to save his mother and it must have been plenty of time since Batman was able to change suits, find her location and get to her with time to spare. Which brings us to another point, he didn't know where she was, he had no idea of how long it would take Batman to find her and he didn't know if she was in the blast radius of the event in Metropolis. His choice to save his mother wasn't just self serving it was illogical.

You mentioned Superman fighting "Doomsday" right away, which is true, but as I already addressed his own life was in danger. By the time he heals from the nuke and comes back to the fight Lois is already in the area. It's made clear how aware he is of her being there when he abandons the fight to save her from drowning. It can be argued he sacrificed his life to save her, not the world and that's my main point. If the intent was to show him caring more about the world than himself after his hallucination then it did a poor job of it.

You mentioned other heroes having selfish motivations or being motivated by loved ones and it's true. Even with Superman it's not unusual for to want to save Lois as a motivating factor in his actions. The issue I have is that you can't show someone only saving or wanting to save their loved ones and say its an example of selflessly wanting to save the world regardless of the cost. Not when he was going to leave a city full of people to their fate because it would have cost him his mother.

 

[KravenMorehead™]

You are correct that Superman didn't know exactly what was going on in Metropolis when he was choosing his mother over that event. What he did know is that Lex was crazy, Lex was at the ship and the ship was discharging energy like it could overload and possibly explode at any moment. He didn't know how long he had before the potential explosion or other dangerous event threatened potentially thousands of lives. He knew exactly how much time he had to save his mother and it must have been plenty of time since Batman was able to change suits, find her location and get to her with time to spare. Which brings us to another point, he didn't know where she was, he had no idea of how long it would take Batman to find her and he didn't know if she was in the blast radius of the event in Metropolis. His choice to save his mother wasn't just self serving it was illogical.

him and bruce weren't friends; seconds ago bruce almost killed him. We as the movie goers know bruce's backstory and understand his change of heart but Kal El doesn't know what's going on in batman's head, only that this guy who was about to kill me seconds ago just fell back. So there was no reason for him to trust a guy like that with saving your mother's life. That wouldn't make sense.

Bruce went to the alien and convinced him that "me saving your mother while you going to save metropolis makes more sense than the other way around". And that only happened after they both found out through Lois saying



So they didn't know what lex's actions were going to result in and lex couldn't possibly destroy the whole world, and from his own monologues Martha had less time to live than the world/metropolis did. Otherwise he would have used destroying the world as leverage, not just superman's mother. "I will kill the world" is not enough to make someone your bytch as "I will kill your mother." Why would he go directly there and risk the one person who gave him answers when practically the whole world was against him?

Saving the world over saving your mother isn't doing what's right. Especially since his mother kept him intact. If his mother died then metropolis would die anyway cause he would become emotionally unhinged and say "fukk it." Any other characterization would be robotic. He would no longer be a hero because he'd literally be no different from General Zod in the first movie.

The disconnect from this characterization of superman comes from the fact that we're used to seeing him as an absolute. He exists in our minds to serve an idealist fantasy and Zack Snyder's goal is to spit in the face of that.

The marvel flick that came out at the same time literally did the same thing, with Steve Rogers bucking everyone elses definition of heroism to save his oldest emotional attachment, his friend Bucky.

You mentioned Superman fighting "Doomsday" right away, which is true, but as I already addressed his own life was in danger. By the time he heals from the nuke and comes back to the fight Lois is already in the area. It's made clear how aware he is of her being there when he abandons the fight to save her from drowning. It can be argued he sacrificed his life to save her, not the world and that's my main point. If the intent was to show him caring more about the world than himself after his hallucination then it did a poor job of it.

You mentioned other heroes having selfish motivations or being motivated by loved ones and it's true. Even with Superman it's not unusual for to want to save Lois as a motivating factor in his actions. The issue I have is that you can't show someone only saving or wanting to save their loved ones and say its an example of selflessly wanting to save the world regardless of the cost. Not when he was going to leave a city full of people to their fate because it would have cost him his mother.

 

[chico25]

him and bruce weren't friends; seconds ago bruce almost killed him. We as the movie goers know bruce's backstory and understand his change of heart but Kal El doesn't know what's going on in batman's head, only that this guy who was about to kill me seconds ago just fell back. So there was no reason for him to trust a guy like that with saving your mother's life. That wouldn't make sense.

Bruce went to the alien and convinced him that "me saving your mother while you going to save metropolis makes more sense than the other way around". And that only happened after they both found out through Lois saying



So they didn't know what lex's actions were going to result in and lex couldn't possibly destroy the whole world, and from his own monologues Martha had less time to live than the world/metropolis did. Otherwise he would have used destroying the world as leverage, not just superman's mother. "I will kill the world" is not enough to make someone your bytch as "I will kill your mother." Why would he go directly there and risk the one person who gave him answers when practically the whole world was against him?

Saving the world over saving your mother isn't doing what's right. Especially since his mother kept him intact. If his mother died then metropolis would die anyway cause he would become emotionally unhinged and say "fukk it." Any other characterization would be robotic. He would no longer be a hero because he'd literally be no different from General Zod in the first movie.

The disconnect from this characterization of superman comes from the fact that we're used to seeing him as an absolute. He exists in our minds to serve an idealist fantasy and Zack Snyder's goal is to spit in the face of that.

The marvel flick that came out at the same time literally did the same thing, with Steve Rogers bucking everyone elses definition of heroism to save his oldest emotional attachment, his friend Bucky.

Your entire argument is based on the idea that him trusting Batman to help save his mother doesn't make sense. The only reason he went to Batman was to ask him to help save his mother or kill him if it came down to that. If you trusted him to help you when you showed up to ask him, why stop trusting him after he spared your life and offered to help? If saving his mother is so important his time would have been better spent searching for her than trying to convince a guy you met once when you threatened him that he should trust and work with you.

The question remains how does his actions show that he had chosen to protect the world regardless of the cost?

That's the point I'm arguing against, not whether Superman's characterization was right.

Edit: Are you arguing that the only thing keeping Superman from destroying the world is his mother? You're saying both Batman and Lex were right and him being eliminated was probably for the best?

 

[KravenMorehead™]

The question remains how does his actions show that he had chosen to protect the world regardless of the cost?

That's the point I'm arguing against, not whether Superman's characterization was right.

Because he risked his life, (kryptonite spear) and lost it (doomsday), protecting the world.

He literally paid the ultimate price. That's kinda protecting the world regardless of the cost

 

[chico25]

Because he risked his life, (kryptonite spear) and lost it (doomsday), protecting the world.

He literally paid the ultimate price. That's kinda protecting the world regardless of the cost

Was he protecting the world or was he protecting his girlfriend who was in harm's way? The line on that gets blurry when he leaves mid fight to go save her and pauses to give a speech about her being his world before making that sacrifice. I believe this Superman would save his loved ones at any cost but doesn't care about the rest of the world as much.

 

[KravenMorehead™]

Was he protecting the world or was he protecting his girlfriend who was in harm's way? The line on that gets blurry when he leaves mid fight to go save her and pauses to give a speech about her being his world before making that sacrifice. I believe this Superman would save his loved ones at any cost but doesn't care about the rest of the world as much.

Well he doesn't have the power to turn back time by spinning the world around this time. Those kinda restrictions force a nikka to make hard choices




If it was only about protecting his girlfriend he woulda flew her outta there put her in a safe place before coming back. If it was that crazy. It's not fair to say that someone doesn't care about saving the planet cause they won't just let their significant other die

 

[KravenMorehead™]

Not to mention he dressed as a civilian and took a ferry to Gotham to grassroots investigate a vigilante.

He could have flown there and changed in an alley.

Someone who doesn't care that much about the world isn't going to that kinda lengths to investigate the death of common criminals.

You can't say he doesn't care about other innocents when he's showing that kinda concern for criminals. Human traffickers at that.

He went to stop batman initially because of that. Criminals being killed cause of a brand.

It just so happens that emotionally he puts his mother and lois above them, which makes perfect sense. The heirarchy you're having problem with, him putting those he loves over civilians, is explored explicitly in the movie:



It's one of the main themes. The deconstruction of what constitutes true heroism. That's what the conversation he had with his dad was about (that obarth posted), what the convo with his mom was about, what this video above was about, what the montage of philosophers judges and politicians arguing on TV was about... scratch that, it's actually the main theme of the movie lmao

Knowing you're human like everyone else till you grow older and find out you're not, That you have powers cause you're actually an alien, then deciding to help people, the nations and citizens of the world becoming aware of your existence, and then from that, having to deal with every different person's definition of what you should do or be, literally the weight of the world of your shoulders. And you're a person that was raised in Earth culture and having the emotions of an earthling. And having to deal with that weight as an earthling. Any one of us would say "fukk it". So he thinks about, and wrestles with, leaving or abandoning a post that he's technically not obligated to hold. So he thinks back to what his dad would do....whether Pa Kent would leave his "home" if he had that chance to, and why or why not. So he calls his mom and the convo goes:



If the planet didn't matter to him that much he wouldn't "wish it was more simple".

 

[jwinfield]

Was he protecting the world or was he protecting his girlfriend who was in harm's way? The line on that gets blurry when he leaves mid fight to go save her and pauses to give a speech about her being his world before making that sacrifice. I believe this Superman would save his loved ones at any cost but doesn't care about the rest of the world as much.

Aren't people still about him killing Zod to protect some innocent people he didn't know

 

[obarth]

I have no expectation of ever convincing some of these nikkas.....imma take the time to reply just to see what they come up with

 

[KravenMorehead™]

This convo is great, cause it's a commentary on how the more power you have, the more humanity you're stripped of by people who don't know you.

how dare you have superpowers and try to save your girl and mom over civillians.

This is the kind of dynamic people deal with everyday when they go from nobodies to somebodies with influence. We see celebrities ripped to shreds on every kind of social media platform every single day, from twitter to facebook, youtube, the coli, etc. The more visibility and influence someone gets, the more mathematical people get when analyzing their actions. They're only humanized when the person criticizing them can see themselves in their shoes.