OFFICIAL Game of Thrones Season 7 Thread - Winds of Winter. Spoilers=BAN, Theories in [spoiler] tags

[Tasha And]

It was a rainy afternoon so I decided to watch a few episodes from Season 2.

It's crazy how Tyrion was out maneuvering all the politicos when he was hand of the king.

He sent the leader of the City watch to the wall, sent Little Finger and Varys on dummy missions to smoke out the traitor, arrested and cut off the beard of the Maester, had the Lannister cousin spying on Cersie, and was chastising Joffrey in public with no fukks given.

That little dude with thw help of Bron was running wild in Kings Landing

Season 2 Tyrion was peak Tyrion. He was never as dope of a character as he was that season. His verbal sparring with Cersei, Joffrey, even Varys and Littlefinger

 

[Ziggiy]

It was a rainy afternoon so I decided to watch a few episodes from Season 2.

It's crazy how Tyrion was out maneuvering all the politicos when he was hand of the king.

He sent the leader of the City watch to the wall, sent Little Finger and Varys on dummy missions to smoke out the traitor, arrested and cut off the beard of the Maester, had the Lannister cousin spying on Cersie, and was chastising Joffrey in public with no fukks given.

That little dude with thw help of Bron was running wild in Kings Landing

Not to mention was knee deep in prostitute p*ssy and making sure the little homie Pod ate well too

Tyrion was the king they needed but didn't deserve

 

[dem bath salts]

This Sansa shyt ruining my enjoyment of this season and I like Sansa. Resigned to the fact its just for dramatic tension tho. She won't actually betray Snowman.

 

[dem bath salts]

Yeah I agree, Ned had to go. Robert was an inconsiderate ass nikka. But its Catelyn who fukked up. We living babies by themselves for a grown ass son surrounded by an army now?

 

[Raizan]

Watched the episode with my girl, and the first thing that came out of her mouth was "Damn, Sansa has a big fukking face."

 

[MalikX]

Sure Robert SHOULD have been so compassionate...but he wasn't. To Robert, kids fall from climbs everyday, b. He wasn't letting that stop him from getting his way, and he wasn't going ot let Ned come a week or two later. He was returning to King's Landing with his Hand in tow. At most Robert would've delayed the return, but he wasn't allowing Ned to refuse. Ned's the best father shown on the show aside from, maybe, Samwell Tarley

I acknowledge Sansa is acting a lil funny right now, but I'm not part of the faction angry at her.

Yea...Robert wasn't letting Ned say no.

The only people that ever gave a fukk about Robert were Ned and Jon Arryn. And one of them died. So...it makes sense he immediately travels 2,000 miles up the road to see Ned personally so he could have another one of his close peoples watching his back. The nikka was just never meant to be King and was so disengaged from his duties he had no clue what he was inviting Ned to come join.

 

[MalikX]

Even Margery was smarter.


Jon with someone like Margery by his side is unstoppable

Margery was a bad white chick. I never understood why Catelyn and Ned didn't marry Robb off to her. But whatever. Margery knew the game in and out, which is impressive seeing she's Robb/Jon/Dany's age. She was the only one that figured out Cersei was planning on killing them all but, his little stupid ass thought this shyt was a game

 

[Tasha And]

Margery was a bad white chick. I never understood why Catelyn and Ned didn't marry Robb off to her. But whatever. Margery knew the game in and out, which is impressive seeing she's Robb/Jon/Dany's age. She was the only one that figured out Cersei was planning on killing them all but, his little stupid ass thought this shyt was a game

How would either of them have even known about Margaery? Their house was thousands of miles away. By the time Cat met her, she was already married to Renly.

 

[MalikX]

How would either of them have even known about Margaery? Their house was thousands of miles away. By the time Cat met her, she was already married to Renly.

All the major houses know each other. I'm pretty sure their Maester's keep up with all the kids in the country that would make good matches for marriage. Rhaegar and Lyanna ran off with each other and they grew up thousands of miles apart. Ned's first love lived in Dorne, which is on the other side of Westeros. The North/Reach knew about Robb/Marg but, I'm guessing Highgarden wanted Marg to be Queen so they put her with guys in line to inherit the throne.

 

[Tasha And]

All the major houses know each other. I'm pretty sure their Maester's keep up with all the kids in the country that would make good matches for marriage. Rhaegar and Lyanna ran off with each other and they grew up thousands of miles apart. Ned's first love lived in Dorne, which is on the other side of Westeros. The North/Reach knew about Robb/Marg but, I'm guessing Highgarden wanted Marg to be Queen so they put her with guys in line to inherit the throne.

No they don't.

They know "of" the other houses, like their house words, their sigils, their history and whatnot, but a random great house from the reach won't have a close relationship with a random great house from the north unless their houses have joined in the past, they break bread routinely, or they have met via a tourney or something. They won't know what their children are like, what they look like, or anything other than who is heir or firstborn. The Freys were bannermen to Cat's father yet Robb knew very little of them.

And sure the maesters would keep track of other houses, but that would mostly be their bannermen's children, not random houses thousands of miles away that don't share the same traditions or values.

The Starks have married outside the north before, to houses in the vale or riverlands, but I don't think they ever married a Tyrell. There is no reason why Ned or Cat would have knew much of anything about Margaery Tyrell, they certainly wouldn't have known if she was intelligent and cunning or a great match for him, and thus there would have been no incentive to marry him during peace times to a southern house they've never broke bread with. He was probably being groomed to marry someone like Alys Karstark or another northern lords daughter. And on the flip, there would have been zero incentive for the Tyrells to send Margaery to the north to marry the heir to Winterfell.

Rhaegar and Lyanna ran off only because they met each other at a tourney. Ned met Ashara at the same tourney. There is no tourney that Ned and Cat attended where southern houses like the Tyrells were present after Margaery was born. Ned didn't leave the north for like 15 years after he and Robert had their falling out, except to deal with the Ironborn.

By the time Cat would have come to know anything about Margaery, it would have only been after Ned was dead and the war had already started. By that time, the Tyrells had already rallied to Renly's side. And thinking on it some more, I believe Robb had already agreed to marry the Frey girl anyway.

 

[R.E.N. Spells Ren]

Margery was a bad white chick. I never understood why Catelyn and Ned didn't marry Robb off to her. But whatever. Margery knew the game in and out, which is impressive seeing she's Robb/Jon/Dany's age. She was the only one that figured out Cersei was planning on killing them all but, his little stupid ass thought this shyt was a game

Ned was uninterested in playing the game after Robert's Rebellion.

If Robert never came riding North, I'm sure all his kids would've been married off to northern lord, or taken the black.

 

[MalikX]

No they don't.

They know "of" the other houses, like their house words, their sigils, their history and whatnot, but a random great house from the reach won't have a close relationship with a random great house from the north unless their houses have joined in the past, they break bread routinely, or they have met via a tourney or something. They won't know what their children are like, what they look like, or anything other than who is heir or firstborn. The Freys were bannermen to Cat's father yet Robb knew very little of them.

And sure the maesters would keep track of other houses, but that would mostly be their bannermen's children, not random houses thousands of miles away that don't share the same traditions or values.

The Starks have married outside the north before, to houses in the vale or riverlands, but I don't think they ever married a Tyrell. There is no reason why Ned or Cat would have knew much of anything about Margaery Tyrell, they certainly wouldn't have known if she was intelligent and cunning or a great match for him, and thus there would have been no incentive to marry him during peace times to a southern house they've never broke bread with. He was probably being groomed to marry someone like Alys Karstark or another northern lords daughter. And on the flip, there would have been zero incentive for the Tyrells to send Margaery to the north to marry the heir to Winterfell.

Rhaegar and Lyanna ran off only because they met each other at a tourney. Ned met Ashara at the same tourney. There is no tourney that Ned and Cat attended where southern houses like the Tyrells were present after Margaery was born. Ned didn't leave the north for like 15 years after he and Robert had their falling out, except to deal with the Ironborn.

By the time Cat would have come to know anything about Margaery, it would have only been after Ned was dead and the war had already started. By that time, the Tyrells had already rallied to Renly's side. And thinking on it some more, I believe Robb had already agreed to marry the Frey girl anyway.

Yea.....no. They're the nobility of Westeros. It's a very small community of people. There's only ONE major family in each of the 9 regions. Starks. Lannisters. Tyrells. Arryns. Baratheons. Greyjoys. Martells. Targaryens. Tullys. And they know the smaller houses that are still prominent even though they're not the major families, such as the Freys, Blackwoods, Brackens, Yronwoods, Daynes, Gardners, Redwynes, Florents, Boltons, Manderlys, etc. etc. If I can remember all these houses and I'm a nikka on the internet, why wouldn't nobles know who these people are when they're frequently in contact with each other on personal basis? There are tourneys, funerals, weddings, feasts, other royal events for them all to interact with one another. They're trading constantly with one another. They're frequently being called to King's Landing on request of the King where they would meet people from every region. They know who the noble families are in their own country

And just to bring you up to speed real quick there's been plenty of intermarriages between regions in the shows....the Martells sent Oberyn and Elia to Casterly Rock because they wanted to match up with Cersei and Jaime but, Tywin refused.

Tywin wanted Cersei to marry Rhaegar. Tywin wanted Jaime to possibly marry Lysa Tully.

Ned Stark was poised to marry Ashara Dayne, a girl from Dorne, half a world away from the North.

His brother Brandon Stark was betrothed to Cat, who Ned married after Brandon died.

Robert Baratheon was betrothed to Lyanna Stark, a girl that lived half a world away from The Stormlands up in the North.

Sansa Stark was about to be married to Garland Tyrell....a cat from the Reach just like Margery. Half a world away from The North.

Robert Baratheon wanted to marry Joffrey to Sansa before that. A kid from King's Landing to a Northern girl.

The Targaryens frequently married women from Essos.....another continent. Robert's parents died going across the Narrow Sea to find Rhaegar a wife from the Free Cities. The Targaryens also frequently married people from the Stormlands, Dorne, Riverlands and Crownlands.

The nobility know each other They know which prominent families have children that are around courting age Almost all the characters in the show can pinpoint exactly which castle/family/region a person/soldier is from just by looking at their sigil/flag but, you think these major families don't know each other? Now if you want to say that the Starks preferred to marry within the North, then that's fine and mostly true historically but, to say they don't know the other families around Westeros is stretching it.

 

[dem bath salts]

No they don't.

They know "of" the other houses, like their house words, their sigils, their history and whatnot, but a random great house from the reach won't have a close relationship with a random great house from the north unless their houses have joined in the past, they break bread routinely, or they have met via a tourney or something. They won't know what their children are like, what they look like, or anything other than who is heir or firstborn. The Freys were bannermen to Cat's father yet Robb knew very little of them.

And sure the maesters would keep track of other houses, but that would mostly be their bannermen's children, not random houses thousands of miles away that don't share the same traditions or values.

The Starks have married outside the north before, to houses in the vale or riverlands, but I don't think they ever married a Tyrell. There is no reason why Ned or Cat would have knew much of anything about Margaery Tyrell, they certainly wouldn't have known if she was intelligent and cunning or a great match for him, and thus there would have been no incentive to marry him during peace times to a southern house they've never broke bread with. He was probably being groomed to marry someone like Alys Karstark or another northern lords daughter. And on the flip, there would have been zero incentive for the Tyrells to send Margaery to the north to marry the heir to Winterfell.

Rhaegar and Lyanna ran off only because they met each other at a tourney. Ned met Ashara at the same tourney. There is no tourney that Ned and Cat attended where southern houses like the Tyrells were present after Margaery was born. Ned didn't leave the north for like 15 years after he and Robert had their falling out, except to deal with the Ironborn.

By the time Cat would have come to know anything about Margaery, it would have only been after Ned was dead and the war had already started. By that time, the Tyrells had already rallied to Renly's side. And thinking on it some more, I believe Robb had already agreed to marry the Frey girl anyway.

They know major facts like how many kids and who the heir of each house are. Thats like saying governments dont know each other cabinets. That's major news to the realm when one of the great houses have children.

Now what they wouldn't have known is margaey's personality. It's really a moot point because the Starks are mostly isolationists.

 

[Tasha And]

1. They know major facts like how many kids and who the heir of each house are. Thats like saying governments dont know each other cabinets. That's major news to the realm when one of the great houses have children.

2. Now what they wouldn't have known is margaey's personality. 3. It's really a moot point because the Starks are mostly isolationists.

I said each one of these points.

1. They know major facts like how many kids and who the heir of each house are.

No they don't.

They know "of" the other houses, like their house words, their sigils, their history and whatnot, but a random great house from the reach won't have a close relationship with a random great house from the north unless their houses have joined in the past, they break bread routinely, or they have met via a tourney or something. They won't know what their children are like, what they look like, or anything other than who is heir or firstborn.

2. Now what they wouldn't have known is margaey's personality.

There is no reason why Ned or Cat would have knew much of anything about Margaery Tyrell, they certainly wouldn't have known if she was intelligent and cunning or a great match for him

3. It's really a moot point because the Starks are mostly isolationists.

Ned didn't leave the north for like 15 years after he and Robert had their falling out, except to deal with the Ironborn.

The Starks have married outside the north before, to houses in the vale or riverlands, but I don't think they ever married a Tyrell. There is no reason why Ned or Cat would have knew much of anything about Margaery Tyrell, they certainly wouldn't have known if she was intelligent and cunning or a great match for him, and thus there would have been no incentive to marry him during peace times to a southern house they've never broke bread with. He was probably being groomed to marry someone like Alys Karstark or another northern lords daughter.

 

[Tasha And]

Yea.....no. They're the nobility of Westeros. It's a very small community of people. There's only ONE major family in each of the 9 regions. Starks. Lannisters. Tyrells. Arryns. Baratheons. Greyjoys. Martells. Targaryens. Tullys. And they know the smaller houses that are still prominent even though they're not the major families, such as the Freys, Blackwoods, Brackens, Yronwoods, Daynes, Gardners, Redwynes, Florents, Boltons, Manderlys, etc. etc. If I can remember all these houses and I'm a nikka on the internet, why wouldn't royal nobles know who these people are when they're frequently in contact with each other on personal basis? There are tourneys, funerals, weddings, feasts, other royal events for them all to interact with one another. They're trading constantly with one another. They're frequently being called to King's Landing on request of the King where they would meet people from every region. They know who the noble families are in their own country

And just to bring you up to speed real quick there's been plenty of intermarriages between regions in the shows....the Martells sent Oberyn and Elia to Casterly Rock because they wanted to match up with Cersei and Jaime but, Tywin refused.

Tywin wanted Cersei to marry Rhaegar. Tywin wanted Jaime to possibly marry Lysa Tully.

Ned Stark was poised to marry Ashara Dayne, a girl from Dorne, half a world away from the North.

His brother Brandon Stark was betrothed to Cat, who Ned married after Brandon died.

Robert Baratheon was betrothed to Lyanna Stark, a girl that lived half a world away from The Stormlands up in the North.

Sansa Stark was about to be married to Garland Tyrell....a cat from the Reach just like Margery. Half a world away from The North.

Robert Baratheon wanted to marry Joffrey to Sansa before that. A kid from King's Landing to a Northern girl.

The Targaryens frequently married women from Essos.....another continent. Robert's parents died going across the Narrow Sea to find Rhaegar a wife from the Free Cities. The Targaryens also frequently married people from the Stormlands, Dorne, Riverlands and Crownlands.

The nobility know each other They know which prominent families have children that are around courting age Almost all the characters in the show can pinpoint exactly which castle/family/region a person/soldier is from just by looking at their sigil/flag but, you think these major families don't know each other? Now if you want to say that the Starks preferred to marry within the North, then that's fine and mostly true historically but, to say they don't know the other families around Westeros is stretching it.

You're mixing a bunch of facts together that have nothing to do with the original point. It feels like we're talking past each other, and getting hung up on "know each other" so I'll go back to the only relevant point ; Cat and Ned arranging to have Robb marry Margaery.

Your first point was basically "why didn't Ned and Cat marry Robb to Margaery?"

And the answer to that is Cat and Ned knew NOTHING of Margaery's personality. They don't know the Tyrells like that. That is what I mean by "knowing" the other great houses. Yes they know the sigils of the other houses, they know their house words, they know their castle, and the region they rule, highborn kids learn that shyt in their studies, and that is what I mean by "know of" the other houses.

But there is a difference between knowing a house's words, and knowing their children on a personal level. The Starks have regular feasts with other nothern lords, people from the mountains, and because Cat is from the riverlands, people from that region as well. So Ned and Cat personally know the children of those lords, have met them, talked with them, seen what their personality is like - all things they do not have with the Tyrells, or the majority of every house south of them.

You are acting like they have a dating profile of every girl born from a major house, and Margaery's profile read "Pretty, long hair, cute dimples, smart and funny, loves long walks on the beach, is a bad bytch".

They didn't know what she looked like. They didn't know if she was smart. They didn't know if she was cunning. They didn't know if she was friendly. They didn't know if she was anything of a good match for him. All they would have known, and by record, not by any discussion or incentive to care, was that Mace had a few heirs, a boy and a girl (tv show).

That's it.

Nothing more.

So asking "why didn't Ned and Cat marry her to him" makes no sense. During peace times, they wouldn't have given a fukk about a Tyrell daughter, they've never married into that house before, they don't trade with them (the Starks trading is done with White Harbor, plus their grow their own crops in their glass garden), they haven't spoken to them damn near two decades, hell the Tyrells didn't even come to Winterfell whenever King Robert visited.

So please tell me the time frame when the thought would have even crossed their mind for Cat to say "Hey Ned. Even though we've never met a Margaery Tyrell, and haven't had any dealings with the Tyrells since we've been married, I think we ought to marry the heir to Winterfell to her - not any of our bannermen, not any of my fathers bannermen, no, just this random Tyrell girl that we know nothing about. She'd be perfect for our boy."

By the time Cat actually got to meet Margaery, the war had started and she was already Renly's queen.

Y

And just to bring you up to speed real quick there's been plenty of intermarriages between regions in the shows..

Obviously dude. I've already made note of that. But you can go through the lines and see the tendencies of great houses, and the Starks have never married with the Tyrells. As homie above me said, the Starks are mostly isolationist. They haven't married Tyrells. They haven't married Lannisters. They haven't married Martells. They haven't married Targaryens.

They sometimes marry from the vale or riverlands, but it's mostly other northern houses. I mean, Ned's parents were cousins.

You listing a bunch of southern marriages, when I'm talking about a southern and far north marriage doesn't do anything to refute the actual point I'm making. And it doesn't give any insight into why it would make sense for Cat and Ned to arrange for Robb to marry that particular house peace times, which is the context of this conversation.

Sansa Stark was about to be married to Garland Tyrell....a cat from the Reach just like Margery. Half a world away from The North.

This was orchestrated by the Tyrells during war times as a power grab while Sansa was a hostage in King's Landing. That's not the same as Ned and Cat marrying their son to a Tyrell during peace times, the context of this discussion.

Ned Stark was poised to marry Ashara Dayne, a girl from Dorne, half a world away from the North.

Ned met her at a tourney, and as a second born, was not going to get arranged to marry anyone like his brother was. Remember, this topic is about ARRANGED marriages, not if two people meet each other at a tourney and fall in love. That would only be used as an example if Margery and Robb had met at a tourney, danced, and fell in love. We know that isn't true because Robb had never been out of the north before calling his banners to march south.

Robert Baratheon was betrothed to Lyanna Stark, a girl that lived half a world away from The Stormlands up in the North.

Robert didn't grow up in the Stormlands. He grew up alongside Ned in the Vale, met with Rickard Stark, and fell in love with his daughter after meeting her. Again, context nothing like northern parents arraigning for their son to marry a girl they don't know from a house they have never married before.

Robert Baratheon wanted to marry Joffrey to Sansa before that. A kid from King's Landing to a Northern girl.

That's because he wanted Ned to be his hand, and needed good incentive to bring the man and his family to King's Landing. Come on man, none of these examples fit the context at all of what we're talking about; Cat and Ned picking Margaery of all people, during peace times, to marry Robb. And it would have to be during peace times, so somewhere between Robb being 13 and 15, because no other timeframe makes sense. Margaery was already married off by the time Ned got imprisoned. And by the time Renly was killed, Robb was already engaged to a Frey girl. So when would they have arranged to have those two marry?