OFFICIAL Game of Thrones Season 7 Thread - Winds of Winter. Spoilers=BAN, Theories in [spoiler] tags

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

Missandei looking like she's been sipping on that Shade of the Evening

 

[42 Monks]

The simple answer is the Starks suck at politics

 

[tru_m.a.c]

The simple answer is the Starks suck at politics

 

[Jax]

I'm not huge into Funko's, I just have a couple that were gifted to me. But this one is

EDIT: Just saw they have a Wun Wun and its oversized too

Why is Jon Snow with a Lannister shield?

 

[Adam3000]

Why is Jon Snow with a Lannister shield?

Its a House Mormont shield. Its accurate to the scene

 

[Jax]

Its a House Mormont shield. Its accurate to the scene

You're right, just peeped.

 

[South Paw]

speaking of that the lil mormount tough talk is played out

 

[peppe]

I'm dying here with the back and forth man we should get a ban bet going of a few months to see which house wins that would

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

I'm dying here with the back and forth man we should get a ban bet going of a few months to see which house wins that would

The way GOT/GRRM works, we might all end up banned

 

[MalikX]

You're mixing a bunch of facts together that have nothing to do with the original point. It feels like we're talking past each other, and getting hung up on "know each other" so I'll go back to the only relevant point ; Cat and Ned arranging to have Robb marry Margaery.

Your first point was basically "why didn't Ned and Cat marry Robb to Margaery?"

And the answer to that is Cat and Ned knew NOTHING of Margaery's personality. They don't know the Tyrells like that. That is what I mean by "knowing" the other great houses. Yes they know the sigils of the other houses, they know their house words, they know their castle, and the region they rule, highborn kids learn that shyt in their studies, and that is what I mean by "know of" the other houses.

But there is a difference between knowing a house's words, and knowing their children on a personal level. The Starks have regular feasts with other nothern lords, people from the mountains, and because Cat is from the riverlands, people from that region as well. So Ned and Cat personally know the children of those lords, have met them, talked with them, seen what their personality is like - all things they do not have with the Tyrells, or the majority of every house south of them.

You are acting like they have a dating profile of every girl born from a major house, and Margaery's profile read "Pretty, long hair, cute dimples, smart and funny, loves long walks on the beach, is a bad bytch".

They didn't know what she looked like. They didn't know if she was smart. They didn't know if she was cunning. They didn't know if she was friendly. They didn't know if she was anything of a good match for him. All they would have known, and by record, not by any discussion or incentive to care, was that Mace had a few heirs, a boy and a girl (tv show).

That's it.

Nothing more.

So asking "why didn't Ned and Cat marry her to him" makes no sense. During peace times, they wouldn't have given a fukk about a Tyrell daughter, they've never married into that house before, they don't trade with them (the Starks trading is done with White Harbor, plus their grow their own crops in their glass garden), they haven't spoken to them damn near two decades, hell the Tyrells didn't even come to Winterfell whenever King Robert visited.

So please tell me the time frame when the thought would have even crossed their mind for Cat to say "Hey Ned. Even though we've never met a Margaery Tyrell, and haven't had any dealings with the Tyrells since we've been married, I think we ought to marry the heir to Winterfell to her - not any of our bannermen, not any of my fathers bannermen, no, just this random Tyrell girl that we know nothing about. She'd be perfect for our boy."

By the time Cat actually got to meet Margaery, the war had started and she was already Renly's queen.






Obviously dude. I've already made note of that. But you can go through the lines and see the tendencies of great houses, and the Starks have never married with the Tyrells. As homie above me said, the Starks are mostly isolationist. They haven't married Tyrells. They haven't married Lannisters. They haven't married Martells. They haven't married Targaryens.

They sometimes marry from the vale or riverlands, but it's mostly other northern houses. I mean, Ned's parents were cousins.

You listing a bunch of southern marriages, when I'm talking about a southern and far north marriage doesn't do anything to refute the actual point I'm making. And it doesn't give any insight into why it would make sense for Cat and Ned to arrange for Robb to marry that particular house peace times, which is the context of this conversation.



This was orchestrated by the Tyrells during war times as a power grab while Sansa was a hostage in King's Landing. That's not the same as Ned and Cat marrying their son to a Tyrell during peace times, the context of this discussion.





Ned met her at a tourney, and as a second born, was not going to get arranged to marry anyone like his brother was. Remember, this topic is about ARRANGED marriages, not if two people meet each other at a tourney and fall in love. That would only be used as an example if Margery and Robb had met at a tourney, danced, and fell in love. We know that isn't true because Robb had never been out of the north before calling his banners to march south.



Robert didn't grow up in the Stormlands. He grew up alongside Ned in the Vale, met with Rickard Stark, and fell in love with his daughter after meeting her. Again, context nothing like northern parents arraigning for their son to marry a girl they don't know from a house they have never married before.




That's because he wanted Ned to be his hand, and needed good incentive to bring the man and his family to King's Landing. Come on man, none of these examples fit the context at all of what we're talking about; Cat and Ned picking Margaery of all people, during peace times, to marry Robb. And it would have to be during peace times, so somewhere between Robb being 13 and 15, because no other timeframe makes sense. Margaery was already married off by the time Ned got imprisoned. And by the time Renly was killed, Robb was already engaged to a Frey girl. So when would they have arranged to have those two marry?

You're just trying to give an excuse for everything. Oh, they only know each other because they fostered together or they only know each other because of this tourney or they they only know each other because they met at this place.....that's my point these houses interact with each other ALL THE TIME. There's always a tourney or a wedding or a royal funeral or a feast or a tour or some sort of gathering event. There's trade. There's people from various regions serving in government. There's people traveling the country. There's kids fostering in different castles. There's war where lords meet each other. And like myself and others have said, the Maesters would know the names of the heirs of each house and some of the other kids that would be suitable for marriages. It's just more usual for the houses to marry with other houses in their own region but, it's not uncommon for people from far off regions to marry. Your first point of the Starks not knowing the Tyrells or having any relationship with houses in the South is just not true.

The Starks choose to be isolationists because their culture is of the First Men and because The North is so big. That is a different thing entirely from them NOT KNOWING who the other families are.

Ned fell in love with a Dornish woman and would have married that woman (which contradicts your argument)...and yes, he met this chick at a tourney (tourneys get thrown every other year, stop acting like it was some unusual occurrence. Harrenhall was just a MAJOR one). Jorah the Simp also married a chick from The Reach before he was exiled.

And your point about them not knowing Marg's personality or what she looked like...are you serious right now? In real life, marriage contracts were set up before the kids could barely walk. In the books, Doran was trying to marry Trystane and Arianna off to Viserys and Danyerys and none of them had ever met each other. Princess Rhaella was married off to Robert's grandfather when she was a kid. Hoster Tully set Catelyn up with Brandon when she was 12. Lyanna was engaged to Robert and she had never met the nikka. All she knew was he was a male slut with a kid already, which is why she ran off with Rhaegar in the first place. You need to re-read the books real quick.

 

[Tasha And]

Your post

You're entirely missing the point of why there is no context which made sense for Ned and Cat to have Robb marry Margaery, so to save everyone the scrolling I'll make it really simple for you.

The war of the 5 kings started in the year 298. Pick the year Cat and Ned should have considered arranging a marriage between Robb and Margaery. Just pick the year or a moment in time you think it would have made sense. And it should be simple to expose why it actually wouldn't make sense.

 

[daze23]

I'm hyped to see Nymeria

 

[TheGreatShowtime]

I was just thinking, how many houses will have been eliminated by the end of the series?

Baratheon & Frey are gone for good. Tyrell & Martel don't have heirs left and are left with Olenna (elderly) and a bunch of incompetent b*stards (Sand Snakes). All of the Lannister children are dead, but Tyrion might have one later I guess. Greyjoys are being held down by a lesbian and a eunuch, so there probably won't be a true heir unless a b*stard from Euron emerges. Dany can't have children, so the Targaryen bloodline might end with her.

Meanwhile, #starkset got the youth game on lockdown

 

[MalikX]

You're entirely missing the point of why there is no context which made sense for Ned and Cat to have Robb marry Margaery, so to save everyone the scrolling I'll make it really simple for you.

The war of the 5 kings started in the year 298. Pick the year Cat and Ned should have considered arranging a marriage between Robb and Margaery. Just pick the year you think it would have made sense. And it should be simple to expose why it actually wouldn't make sense.

Your first argument was that the Starks didn't know who the Tyrells were

Now your argument shifted to it not making sense.

Robb is the future Lord of Winterfell. He needs a wife. Why WOULDN'T a Maester search through the major 9 houses for girls his age? Riverrun had no girls as Edmure had no kids. The Eyrie had no girls, just a boy. Stannis' girl is too young and too sickly. Arianne is the right age. A Maester would write her name down. Margery is the right age. A Maester would write her name down. Asha is too old and the Greyjoys are enemies. Myrcella is too young.

The fact you're saying it's not realistic when literally a generation before Ned's father SPECIFICALLY went around Westeros doing EXACTLY THAT. Pairing Lyanna up with Robert, Brandon with Cat and would have paired Ned off with Ashara if Brandon had lived.

Any worthwhile Maester would at least do that....even if the Starks/Northerners chose to marry within the North most of the time, they would, just for due diligence's sake, see who was out there for Robb to marry, especially if they wanted to unite with another big powerful family, instead of marrying one of their subjects. And guess what, by the start of the story, they had no intentions of pairing Robb up with a Northern girl. He eventually got engaged to a Frey girl. Reneged then got married to a chick from the Westerlands that lived 1,000 miles away. You keep saying marrying Margery makes no sense. But how does marrying a girl from a tiny family in the West make sense? How does marrying a Frey make sense when they're one of the most hated families in the country? The Reach is very wealthy/powerful. The Starks are already aligned with the Arryns/Tullys via marriage. By marrying the Tyrells, they now form a powerful bloc in Westeros. Almost all of the country. That would completely neutralize the Lannisters being sandwiched by the Tullys/Starks/Arryns on one side and the Tyrells on the other. Further neutralize the Greyjoys too. How is that not a smart play?

It didn't happen because Ned wanted to go back North and remove himself from Southern politics. And the Tyrells were power hungry for the throne. But this union would've actually made more sense than pairing their daughter up with a psychopath and a homo.

Also, Renly talked about Margaery to Ned in King's Landing. His gay ass was trying to get Robert to divorce Cersei and take Margaery as his new wife, so Loras could have an excuse to be in the Capitol with him. Renly only married Margaery AFTER Robert died. So that entire timeframe Ned could have offered Robb up instead...a Northern messenger could have been sent down to Highgarden, the same way Littlefinger went down to Highgarden but, like I said already, both sides had other desires. But that's not really the point here.....your whole argument was that Ned/Cat didn't know Margery existed and that's just silly

 

[AITheAnswerAI]

Starting the first episode late, right before the 2nd one premieres.

Arya had me thinking this was a rehash from last season!