Official Game of Thrones Season 4 Thread *The North Remembers*(NO SPOILERS!!)

[Peter Parker]

I haven't read any of the books btw. Can u try and avoid any potential major spoilers if possible?

Spoiler: best swordsman in westeros

1. Ser Arthur Dayne
2. Oberyn Martell
3. Jamie Lannister
4. Ser Barristan Selmy
5. The Hound
6. Syrio Forel
7. The Mountain
8. Bronn
9. Rob Baratheon
10. The Blackfish

Rhaegar Targaryean is up there since we're including dead people, breh was supposedly the best swordsman in Westeros before Robert murked him and Robert Baratheon fought with a warhammer not a sword

Also, the hound is not fukking with The Mountain at all

 

[FinessePro]

HB BlackGang in here

hold up

i just realized who you were .........



you did your time, it's 5 star suites and crab meats from now on breh

Houndset = #TeamBodyBag my nikka lets get it

They tried to fry a nikka but I do that time had nikkas sending me kites behind the G wall

All my nikkas repping Houndset I'm waiting for a nikka to try Ayra so I can slap the kufi off his mother head

 

[Mr. Pink]

There have been MANY first swords of Braavos. They are selected not only for their skills with sword, but also their obvservational skills and ability to protect the Sealord from more than just physical threats.

The guards who he beat up with the wooden sword were pedestrianHardly worth mentioning in this case, every person on the top 10 list would have taken them out. Ser Meryn Trant made it out unharmed though, and he aint even a noteworthy kingsguard. So it aint like he can pull that practice sword shyt with someone who actually is any good


The list was top 10 greatest warriors of all time. I said that there is nothing about his character that tells us that he is worthy of the list. No battle stories, no firsthand accounts, nothing. He might even be the GOAT but we will never know because there is no evidence. There is no question that he at one point was one of the finest swords in Braavos, but that aint enough.

What do we say to claims with no evidence? "Not today"

Sandor is a celebrated swordsman, right? Look at the trouble he had in the tavern with 4 or 5 generic mooks, and then look how casually Syrio dismissed his 5 mooks. Unarmored. With a practice sword.

Sandor is big and strong and brutal. He hacks away at his opponents until he breaks their defences. Syrio is fast, precise, skilled and has an incredible 'fighting IQ'(along with Bronn).

"This is not the dance of the Westeros we are learning, the knight's dance, hacking and hammering. This is the bravo's dance, the Water Dance, swift and sudden."

 

[Adam3000]

Sandor is a celebrated swordsman, right? Look at the trouble he had in the tavern with 4 or 5 generic mooks, and then look how casually Syrio dismissed his 5 mooks. Unarmored. With a practice sword.

Sandor is big and strong and brutal. He hacks away at his opponents until he breaks their defences. Syrio is fast, precise, skilled and has an incredible 'fighting IQ'(along with Bronn).

"This is not the dance of the Westeros we are learning, the knight's dance, hacking and hammering. This is the bravo's dance, the Water Dance, swift and sudden."

Top 10 Warriors of Westeros is the list in question

So lets say you are a general. You have the choice between The Hound or Syrio to be on your team as you prepare for battle

Who do you pick? If the answer is the Hound, then the discussion is over. If the answer is Syrio, well then you aren't a very good general

I'm not interested in bashing Syrio anymore, I already said he could be the GOAT for all we know. But we will never know, because there is no evidence and he is dead.

 

[Adam3000]

There is nothing to suggest that a great Braavos swordsman is better than a great Westeros swordsman. The AVERAGE swordsman in Braavos is definitely better, but once you get up to the elite there is no reason to believe that either is superior to the other. The Braavos talk a big game and have their fun with back alley duels, but the Westeros prove their worth on the field of battle.

 

[T-K-G]

There is nothing to suggest that a great Braavos swordsman is better than a great Westeros swordsman. The AVERAGE swordsman in Braavos is definitely better, but once you get up to the elite there is no reason to believe that either is superior to the other. The Braavos talk a big game and have their fun with back alley duels, but the Westeros prove their worth on the field of battle.

that's exactly what you did tho, assuming braavosi aren't as good because we haven't heard any stories or seen anything, but syrio was the only nikka from braavos we've seen in the series so far so it woudln't be fair imo to just assume they aren't as good

 

[Mr. Pink]

Top 10 Warriors of Westeros is the list in question

So lets say you are a general. You have the choice between The Hound or Syrio to be on your team as you prepare for battle

Who do you pick? If the answer is the Hound, then the discussion is over. If the answer is Syrio, well then you aren't a very good general

I'm not interested in bashing Syrio anymore, I already said he could be the GOAT for all we know. But we will never know, because there is no evidence and he is dead.

What about the evidence I just presented you?

You have Sandor, who is considered by everyone do be as dangerous as any dude who has ever held a sword in his hand. Look at the fight in the tavern. I just rewatched it. He fights them for about 2 minutes and a half, and he wrestles with them, rolls around the floor, punches and kicks them, and is kicked in return, throws them around, smashes tables etc. And in the end he only beat 3 of them, Arya got the rest. And the other two would have probably killed him had Arya not been there.

By comparison Syrio casually dispatches 5 armored(the guys at the tavern wore leather) Lannisters in about 30 seconds without breaking a sweat. He does so unarmored, with a practice sword, and no one so much as lays a finger on him.

That's not only a difference, it's a massive difference.

As for your question, it depends. On land I'd pick Sandor, because knights fight as heavy cavalry. If it's a naval battle I'd pick Syrio.

 

[duck]

All hail Tommy stormborn, father of dragonzords

#targset

 

[Adam3000]

If the answer is the Hound, then the discussion is over.

On land I'd pick Sandor,

If the answer is the Hound, then the discussion is over.

If it's a naval battle I'd pick Syrio.

Based on what exactly? All those 1 on 1 swordfights that occur in naval battles? Moving the goalposts on display here.

that's exactly what you did tho, assuming braavosi aren't as good because we haven't heard any stories or seen anything, but syrio was the only nikka from braavos we've seen in the series so far so it woudln't be fair imo to just assume they aren't as good

Both your last two times quoting me about this have serious reading comprehension problems. Its a question of crowning someone with little to no textual evidence to support it. Nothing but a title which may mean a lot or may not really mean a lot, and a small fight with a bunch of worthless guards.

What about the evidence I just presented you?

You have Sandor, who is considered by everyone do be as dangerous as any dude who has ever held a sword in his hand. Look at the fight in the tavern. I just rewatched it. He fights them for about 2 minutes and a half, and he wrestles with them, rolls around the floor, punches and kicks them, and is kicked in return, throws them around, smashes tables etc. And in the end he only beat 3 of them, Arya got the rest. And the other two would have probably killed him had Arya not been there.

By comparison Syrio casually dispatches 5 armored(the guys at the tavern wore leather) Lannisters in about 30 seconds without breaking a sweat. He does so unarmored, with a practice sword, and no one so much as lays a finger on him.

That's not only a difference, it's a massive difference.
.

Still pushing that comparison between worthless Lannister guards and The Mountain's men while Sandor was in a malnourished state. Also ignoring that a completely unremarkable Kingsguard Ser Meryn Trant put that wooden sword shyt to bet within 3 seconds of battle. Syrio didn't land a single blow to Meryn with it.

Syrio sure is a fine technical swordsman. That makes him a top 10 warrior of all time.C'mon guys, you are seriously gonna sit here and keep making me bash the GAWD Syrio Forel because you can't accept that he doesn't belong on a top 10 warriors of all time list?

 

[Mr. Pink]

Based on what exactly? All those 1 on 1 swordfights that occur in naval battles? Moving the goalposts on display here.

Based on the fact that Braavos is a naval power, based on the fact that Syrio's balance and agility come in handy when ships are ramming into each other and the floor under you is moving, based on the fact that naval soldiers are lightly armored for fear of drowning. Also why do you keep talking about 1 on 1 sword fights when Syrio took on 5 guys without breaking a sweat and armed with only a wooden sword? You act like Syrio is a one trick pony but 99% of knights won't be able to replicate his feat.

Still pushing that comparison between worthless Lannister guards and The Mountain's men while Sandor was in a malnourished state. Also ignoring that a completely unremarkable Kingsguard Ser Meryn Trant put that wooden sword shyt to bet within 3 seconds of battle. Syrio didn't land a single blow to Meryn with it.

That's funny you should say that. The Mountain's men are known as a band of savages and lunatics, not as good warriors. In fact they say they've been riding from village to village robbing taverns. Hardly the stuff of battlefield legend. On the other hand the 'worthless Lannister guards' are a permanent force(as opposed to peasant levies which return to farming after the war). They have access to regular training in the castle yard and are well fed and well equiped.
I should think that well fed, well equiped men who regularly drill and spar and are taught by a master-at-arms make for better warriors than a rag tag band of peasants who just happen to fight under a brutal knight.

Really the only leg you have to stand on is the fact that he's hungry, but guess what, it was his own decision to provoke the fight. Clearly he felt he was up to it.

As for Meryn, big deal, he grabbed a wooden sword and chopped it in half. Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but knights in full plate armor are almost completely immune to swords, unless you did what Bronn did. But you can't do what Bronn did with a wooden sword.

Syrio lost that fight because, as good as he was, the deck was just too stacked against him. No one is superhuman. Put a Navy SEAL with a revolver against a regular infantry guy with a flak vest, ballistic helmet and rifle and see what happens.

 

[Adam3000]

@Mr. Pink

No question I'm downplaying Syrio taking out the Lannister guards, but to counter that by downplaying the Hound simply because of the tavern battle is kind of silly. The reason for downplaying the Lannister guards is because it is not proof of anything. They are garbage, junk soldiers. They got knocked unconcious by a wooden sword hitting their plate armor


Let's also nevermind that Jaime Lannister himself thinks that Barristan, The Mountain, and The Hound are the only swordsmen in Westeros who could give him a battle. I'm sure you would put Jaime in the top 10 right? That right there is evidence enough for me that The Hound is top 10, especially combined with all the proven battle grit and first and second hand accounts of prowess

Meanwhile, Syrio's evidence list consists of:

1) Named First Sword of Braavos, a title held by dozens or maybe hundreds of men, a title that is given both due to sword skill as well as observational skill. Reputation as one of the best in Braavos at the time of his promotion.
2) Easily dispatched Lannister guards with a wooden sword

While that is still a better resume than 99% of swordsmen, is it enough to put him in the top 10? We don't believe you, you need more people

 

[Mr. Pink]

@Mr. Pink

No question I'm downplaying Syrio taking out the Lannister guards, but to counter that by downplaying the Hound simply because of the tavern battle is kind of silly. The reason for downplaying the Lannister guards is because it is not proof of anything. They are garbage, junk soldiers. They got knocked unconcious by a wooden sword hitting their plate armor


Let's also nevermind that Jaime Lannister himself thinks that Barristan, The Mountain, and The Hound are the only swordsmen in Westeros who could give him a battle. I'm sure you would put Jaime in the top 10 right? That right there is evidence enough for me that The Hound is top 10, especially combined with all the proven battle grit and first and second hand accounts of prowess

Meanwhile, Syrio's evidence list consists of:

1) Named First Sword of Braavos, a title held by dozens or maybe hundreds of men, a title that is given both due to sword skill as well as observational skill. Reputation as one of the best in Braavos at the time of his promotion.
2) Easily dispatched Lannister guards with a wooden sword

While that is still a better resume than 99% of swordsmen, is it enough to put him in the top 10? We don't believe you, you need more people

How am I downplaying the Hound? Is anything I said not true? Why are you acting like the tavern fight was somehow a fluke? I never claimed Sandor wasn't in the top 10.
But Syrio was in a similar condition against better fighters, was more disadvantaged and yet he did far better than Sandor.

Let me put it this way: knights train by sparring against each other with dull blades. Bravos train by fighting life and death duels at night. Which do you think is more liable to produce a better warrior?

From a cultural standpoint, the bravo culture is incredibly stupid. But there's no denying their skill. How many life and death duels do you think a guy like Syrio would have to fight over the course of years in order to land on the shortlist for FSOB?

Also you keep bringing up Syrio's 'observational ability' as if it somehow detracts from his skill. But remember what he told Arya? "The True Seeing is the essence of swordplay."
It's because of his observational ability that Syrio was the best("Other men were stronger, faster, younger, why was Syrio Forel the best?"). It applies to both swordplay and keeping the Sealord protected.

I'm not downplaying the Hound or Jaime or Barristan. They are incredibly skilled warriors. But Syrio is the GOT equivalent of Miyamoto Musashi. He has fighting down to a science.

 

[mastermind]

goat GIF?

 

[satam55]

So this is whats got StannisStans claiming a W?

@Soundbwoy

 

[TheGreatShowtime]

So this is whats got StannisStans claiming a W?

Melisandre is a good reference