Official Game of Thrones Season 4 Thread *The North Remembers*(NO SPOILERS!!)

[Jax]

Another thing the show does a REALLY inadequate job of doing is explaining what exactly is the Seven Kingdoms & the ruling Lord/Family/Castle of each region. I had to look it up to learn that shyt.

For example:

1. I had no idea House Baratheon ruled the Stormlands from Storm's End.

2. The show never mentions that King Robb Stark is also King of the Trident, which basically means King of the Riverlands. I was wondering why in Season 3, Blackfish Tully scolds Edmure Tully for calling Robb nephew instead of King when the Tulleys are from the Riverlands, not the North.

3. It kind of amazes me that Stannis' Castle Dragonstone is in the same region (The Crownlands) as King's Landing. Why don't Joffrey or Tywin have folks go down to Dragonstone & arrest Stannis?

4. When the fukk are we gonna see Casterly Rock/The Westerlands on the show?



























Who the fukk drew this sigil for House Stark/The North:

That don't look like no Direwolf. It look like a Lion without a mane.

Nice map, 3 headed dragon there doe? What land is that? I only know dragonstone.

 

[Sinnerman]

1. You’re tough, but not as tough as you think. Your best trait is your loyalty, not your strength — you’d do well to rely more on your friends. This miscalculation is enough to send you straight through the Moon Door.

 

[Adam3000]

Robert's legal claim to the crown was his Targaryen blood. Stannis is basing his claim on Robert's kids not being his kids and therefore he is next in line. But if Robert's legal claim was based on his Targaryen blood then legally the throne is Dany's by rights since she was of the direct line of House Targaryen whereas Robert is Targaryen from a female descendant.

 

[obarth]

Nice rebuttal, breh

 

[King Crimson]

 

[The Prince of All Saiyans]

 

[Adam3000]

Nice rebuttal, breh

I'm gonna regret this because it goes against my personal allegiances, but let me just lay out the more direct path

Targset doesn't have to reach to lay claim to right of the Iron Throne. They also don't have to resort to saying "we built it so it is ours" which is a trashcan status argument

2 things make right in my opinion. 1) Establishing the throne and passing it on to descendents in the legal order of sucession, and 2) Overthrowing the current line of succession by wiping out the bloodline or causing them to bend the knee or flee to a new home

#1 is the Targaryen claim to the throne
#2 is the Baratheon claim to the throne (which legally passes to Stannis with no Robert male heirs)

The problem is, #2 can be argued didn't happen. The bloodline was most definitely not wiped out. So the question becomes whether Viserys and Dany as infants being forcefully taken to Essos to grow up counts a giving up the right to the throne. Targsetters certainly would say it doesn't, so you can just flat out say that Dany is the Queen by right and not have to reach for it

I'm not gonna buy it though simply because Robert was the accepted king of the 7 kingdoms and fought against uprisings and any rebellions (Iron Born) were squashed. Even the Dornish who kind of did their own thing, they were still officially a part of the kingdom. For all intents and purposes, the Baratheon's established a brand new claim irrelevant of the old Targ one.

 

[obarth]

I'm not gonna buy it though simply because Robert was the accepted king of the 7 kingdoms

Based on his Targaryen lineage. I fail to see where the reach is here. In fact I'm the only one using a canonical source, instead of opinion, to back up what I'm saying (Renly's quote). Robert didn't start a brand new claim, he based his claim on the current bloodline in place. There's no stannery involved here, just what George RR Martin put down on the page. Like I said before, armies claim thrones, but the throne doesn't belong to Stannis "by rights"

 

[Adam3000]

Based on his Targaryen lineage. I fail to see where the reach is here. In fact I'm the only one using a canonical source, instead of opinion, to back up what I'm saying (Renly's quote). Robert didn't start a brand new claim, he based his claim on the current bloodline in place. There's no stannery involved here, just what George RR Martin put down on the page. Like I said before, armies claim thrones, but the throne doesn't belong to Stannis "by rights"

But if Robert laid claim through the Targ bloodline and is king, the line of succession does not suddenly revert back to Dany because he died. It clearly passes to Robert's male heir, and if Robert has no male heir it passes to his oldest brother. You are trying to create a do-over and ignoring the laws of gods and men.

 

[The Prince of All Saiyans]

Based on his Targaryen lineage. I fail to see where the reach is here. In fact I'm the only one using a canonical source, instead of opinion, to back up what I'm saying (Renly's quote). Robert didn't start a brand new claim, he based his claim on the current bloodline in place. There's no stannery involved here, just what George RR Martin put down on the page. Like I said before, armies claim thrones, but the throne doesn't belong to Stannis "by rights"

that's how the targaryen's built the 7 kindoms was dragons/armies

then robert overthrew and tossed those babies into the ocean

danny has nothing coming to her

stannis IS in fact the rightful king, but due to blood tests not just being right around the corner in said time it is the lannisters.

 

[Adam3000]

@obarth, Dany can have the throne by right when Stannis dies or bends the knee and she plops that beautiful ass on the cold iron

Until then, its my man Stannis' by right

EDIT: If he dies, Shireen needs to bend the knee or die too otherwise it is hers by right over Dany.

 

[Pifferry]

I hate #Targset with a passion
Only set I get furious at

 

[obarth]

But if Robert laid claim through the Targ bloodline and is king, the line of succession does not suddenly revert back to Dany because he died. It clearly passes to Robert's male heir, and if Robert has no male heir it passes to his oldest brother. You are trying to create a do-over and ignoring the laws of gods and men.

It has nothing to do with a do over. It was never legally Robert's throne in the first place. He won it by force, clap for em, but it was still Viserys throne legally, then Khal Drogo's because he was married to Dany, then it would have been Rhaego's if he had been born, then Dany, and then Robert. There's a reason dude was so hell bent on killing two children on a different continent. Look up "male-preference cognatic primogeniture" which is the succession system used by everyone except the Dornish and Targs. Like I said, this has nothing to do with set repping. I just care about the facts. Just so happens this particular fact favors my set

 

[Adam3000]

It has nothing to do with a do over. It was never legally Robert's throne in the first place. He won it by force, clap for em, but it was still Viserys throne legally, then Khal Drogo's because he was married to Dany, then it would have been Rhaego's if he had been born, then Dany, and then Robert. There's a reason dude was so hell bent on killing two children on a different continent. Look up "male-preference cognatic primogeniture" which is the succession system used by everyone except the Dornish and Targs. Like I said, this has nothing to do with set repping. I just care about the facts. Just so happens this particular fact favors my set

But now you are just circling the wagon back to the argument I already conceded to you

1) Establishing the throne and passing it on to descendents in the legal order of sucession
2) Overthrowing the current line of succession by wiping out the bloodline or causing them to bend the knee or flee to a new home

#1 is the Targaryen claim to the throne
#2 is the Baratheon claim to the throne (which legally passes to Stannis with no Robert male heirs)

The problem is, #2 can be argued didn't happen. The bloodline was most definitely not wiped out. So the question becomes whether Viserys and Dany as infants being forcefully taken to Essos to grow up counts a giving up the right to the throne. Targsetters certainly would say it doesn't, so you can just flat out say that Dany is the Queen by right and not have to reach for it

So which claim are you going to make, that the throne belongs to Dany because Robert didn't kill her, or that Robert used Targaryen lineage to lay claim to the throne which didn't follow the order of succession?

Because if you wanna argue #1 have at it, I already conceded it is a worthwhile argument despite my objections due to Viserys and Dany fleeing to Essos and living on another continent their whole lives. But if you wanna argue #2, you are wrong because Robert was recognized as the king before all gods and men, blessed by the High Septon, lived unchallenged on the throne for 14 years, and claimed the 7 kingdoms by conquering it just like Aegon Targaryen did. I could just as easily say that Aegon Targaryen had no legal right to rule the kingdoms in the first place, nor did any of the kings that came before him, and the true rightful rulers are the Children of the Forest and those with the blood of the First Men who forged a pact on the Isle of Faces which gave dominion of the forest lands to the Children, and the rest of Westeros to the First Men. So guess what breh....I can flip your argument on you and make it known that the Starks and the Crannogmen are the true rightful kings


Andals think they own Westeros like Europeans think they own America . Only one group made a pact with the Children, and they didn't come from Andal or Valyria

 

[Arianne Martell]