Uchiha God

Veteran
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
14,517
Reputation
6,970
Daps
90,105
Reppin
NULL
Paul isn't a good guy. He's a future tyrant. The reason Herbert wrote the book was for people to always distrust charismatic leaders like Paul.

I always see people using Herbert's supposed intentions - often using a direct quote - as defense for the themes and undertones Dune flirts with, but this passage I read in a preview/review articulates some of my thoughts on its delivery:

"Even the faint gaps were closed now. Here was the unborn jihad, he knew. Here was the race consciousness that he had known once as his own terrible purpose […] The race of humans had felt its own dormancy, sensed itself grown stale and knew now only the need to experience turmoil in which the genes would mingle and the strong new mixtures survive. All humans were alive as an unconscious single organism in this moment, experiencing a kind of sexual heat that could override any barrier.

And Paul saw how futile were any efforts of his to change any smallest bit of this. He had thought to oppose the jihad within himself, but the jihad would be. His legions would rage out from Arrakis even without him. They needed only the legend he already had become. […]

A sense of failure pervaded him.



In the Dune sequels, Paul and his family rule tyrannically. The war that he began costs the universe 61 billion lives.

This complicates the “white savior”; critics of this reading of Dune, like Harris Durran in an essay for Medium, have argued that this (and an interview given by the author) makes Dune a critique of the white savior rather than a recapitulation of it.

But where this misses the mark is the very inevitability of it all. The idea that the crypto-Arab Fremen are destined only either to be colonized or to undertake a mega-jihad—and that being “uplifted” by a white superman is the fulcrum on which that rests—removes their agency completely. That the idea of a messianic figure was embedded in their culture by their colonial masters does not particularly change that. A lack of agency on the part of the people of color is the core of the “white savior.” Whatever “it” is, they couldn’t have done it without the white savior.

In the story, Paul cannot see any way out of the coming jihad. But this is making the way that white saviors see themselves into a deterministic inevitability. The author can have his cake and eat it too; the hero of his story can cause the deaths of millions and remain sympathetic. Despite all his agency through the book to that point, oh well, genocidal war was “inevitable.”

He is not the white savior critiqued, he is the white savior transcended to a shrugging Calvinistic godhood.

And ultimately, “the Arabs are destined to kill everyone in a religious war” is not a good look, no matter what complicating factors are in play.
 
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
3,858
Reputation
1,642
Daps
12,178
I always see people using Herbert's supposed intentions - often using a direct quote - as defense for the themes and undertones Dune flirts with, but this passage I read in a preview/review articulates some of my thoughts on its delivery:

I read the guy's article and it's clear he's neither read Dune Messiah, and to a lesser extent, God Emperor. You know why a lot of Dune fans have a problem with Dune Messiah? It's because it crushes, no obliterates, Paul's heroism in the first fukking chapter. If Paul is a white savior, I'm the president of the United States.
 

David_TheMan

Banned
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Messages
36,805
Reputation
-3,532
Daps
82,834
Hopefully with world eatablished he makes more.entsrtaining movies.

Just want to aee the god emperor movie done right
 

Professor Emeritus

Veteran
Poster of the Year
Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
51,330
Reputation
19,666
Daps
203,856
Reppin
the ether
Hopefully with world eatablished he makes more.entsrtaining movies.

Just want to aee the god emperor movie done right

He hasn't said any plans to make a God Emperor movie. The 2nd film will be the 2nd half of Dune, the 3rd film will be Dune Messiah. I'm guessing if Children of Dune or God Emperor ever gets made, it probably won't be by him. It would be a very, very different project considering how those books play out.
 

Professor Emeritus

Veteran
Poster of the Year
Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
51,330
Reputation
19,666
Daps
203,856
Reppin
the ether
i watched this last night without knowing anything about dune

i dont understand how spice helps space ships travel, that makes no sense to me if you have that type of technology?

i thought the visuals were cool but its the same old hollywood story

Original space technology was based on computers and AI systems. Then there was an existential war between humans and AI that almost wiped out the human race. After that computers and all artificial attempts to replicate the functions of a mind were banned. Spice heightens supernatural abilities and gives some special people the ability to see into the future to a small degree - thus specially trained, prepared Guild pilots using immense amounts of spice can see a very short distance into the future in a manner that allows them to guide interstellar travel without just smashing into shyt.

Basically the propulsion technology for interstellar travel is regular, but you need spice to allow a human mind to take the place of computers that would otherwise guide travel at such speeds.
 

FaTaL

Veteran
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
102,284
Reputation
4,969
Daps
204,184
Reppin
NULL
Original space technology was based on computers and AI systems. Then there was an existential war between humans and AI that almost wiped out the human race. After that computers and all artificial attempts to replicate the functions of a mind were banned. Spice heightens supernatural abilities and gives some special people the ability to see into the future to a small degree - thus specially trained, prepared Guild pilots using immense amounts of spice can see a very short distance into the future in a manner that allows them to guide interstellar travel without just smashing into shyt.

Basically the propulsion technology for interstellar travel is regular, but you need spice to allow a human mind to take the place of computers that would otherwise guide travel at such speeds.
A really interesting concept, did they ever show the war with the AI, I would find that fascinating
 

Professor Emeritus

Veteran
Poster of the Year
Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
51,330
Reputation
19,666
Daps
203,856
Reppin
the ether
A really interesting concept, did they ever show the war with the AI, I would find that fascinating


In the original series it's only mentioned, never really shown, though it comes up often enough. Frank Herbert's son eventually wrote a book on it supposedly based in part on his dad's notes but I haven't read any of his shyt cause I heard all his books were mid.
 
Top