PoorAndDangerous
Superstar
It’s probably already been posted in here but
crazy the amount of thought that goes into one scene
crazy the amount of thought that goes into one scene
Official Dune Thread
- Thread starter TheGodling
- Start date
PoorAndDangerous
Superstar
So was
that spider human thing on geidi prime Dr. Yueh’s wife Wana?
Saw it today with a couple good friends. Wasn't keen to go to the theaters in an epidemic but we did a midday IMAX showing to keep away from the crowds and had the whole row to ourselves.
I loved the movie but was surprised to see that folk unfamiliar with the books could follow it at all. There's a lot of backstory left out and tons of shyt that hinges on a single line of dialogue you may or may not actually hear. Exactly who the Bene Gesserit are and what they've done, the extent of Paul's training, the depth of Yueh's motivations, the deep-seated animosity/rivalry between House Harkkonen and House Atreides, the importance of spice to their universe, and the true extent of how difficult living in the desert is all got the short shaft. But that's the movies for you, folk got attention span too short to fit all that in. There better be a 4:30 director's cut on this shyt tho.
For what of the plot they did show, I think it was damn near pitch-perfect. Almost exactly how I envisioned it in my head and the minor changes they made were fine. Nailed the mood of each world, nailed the gom jabbar scene, nailed the shield fighting, nailed the Harkonnens, nailed the Bene Gesserit, nailed the worms.
The most difficult part of this shyt to film is that there is so much internal thought process going on. I think they did a pretty decent job of showing some of that imagery in Paul's thoughts, especially when he's in pain, but there's only so much they can do. One of the greatest problems is that his fighting style is almost entirely mental, built on perfectly studying his opponent's movements and knowing exactly where and how to hit to gain the quickest entry to his weak point. They didn't show his training on this nearly enough and they didn't show it in combat at all. The entire process of how he incapacitated the guard on the ornithopter to free himself and his mother is deep as fukk in the book, but in the movie all you really see is him pulling a leg sweep.
Casting/acting on all House Harkkonen roles was perfect, though it sucks we saw so little of Piter before he died. Nailed the Sardaukar too, wish we had seen a little bit more of them fighting and how superior they were to the Harkkonen forces. Duke Leto was perfect, only wish he had gotten more shine but you can't really justify it with runtime. Lady Jessica was a bit too over the top, I'm glad they showed her emotion but they needed to balance that with her coldness better, that may come in the next flick. Paul was perfect, he's just as cold/emotionless in the book which partially explains the logic-driven path he chooses, and physically he's supposed to be a slight 15yo who hasn't developed yet, that's why he surprises people in his fights which he wins due to superior training and mental ability, not strength. He grows up in the next half though. Thufir was a good actor but got screwed over in them not really showing the Mentat shyt or how he trained up Paul in that. Gurney got really screwed over with his backstory missing and not doing any battle songs or shyt. Duncan Idaho was better than I thought he would be (even if I still think he was miscast). Yueh was okay but not really how I envisioned him (I wanted him to be more dignified), they really left out his important backstory too. Liet Kynes was very well done, I wish there was more of her but again almost impossible with pacing, sucks that she has to die so early in the story. Jameis was decent, his character actually gets filled out more after his death. I'm on the fence with Stilgar and Chani but willing to wait and see.
Two years a long-ass time to wait, but at least we aren't in suspense about what happens.
I loved the movie but was surprised to see that folk unfamiliar with the books could follow it at all. There's a lot of backstory left out and tons of shyt that hinges on a single line of dialogue you may or may not actually hear. Exactly who the Bene Gesserit are and what they've done, the extent of Paul's training, the depth of Yueh's motivations, the deep-seated animosity/rivalry between House Harkkonen and House Atreides, the importance of spice to their universe, and the true extent of how difficult living in the desert is all got the short shaft. But that's the movies for you, folk got attention span too short to fit all that in. There better be a 4:30 director's cut on this shyt tho.
For what of the plot they did show, I think it was damn near pitch-perfect. Almost exactly how I envisioned it in my head and the minor changes they made were fine. Nailed the mood of each world, nailed the gom jabbar scene, nailed the shield fighting, nailed the Harkonnens, nailed the Bene Gesserit, nailed the worms.
The most difficult part of this shyt to film is that there is so much internal thought process going on. I think they did a pretty decent job of showing some of that imagery in Paul's thoughts, especially when he's in pain, but there's only so much they can do. One of the greatest problems is that his fighting style is almost entirely mental, built on perfectly studying his opponent's movements and knowing exactly where and how to hit to gain the quickest entry to his weak point. They didn't show his training on this nearly enough and they didn't show it in combat at all. The entire process of how he incapacitated the guard on the ornithopter to free himself and his mother is deep as fukk in the book, but in the movie all you really see is him pulling a leg sweep.
Casting/acting on all House Harkkonen roles was perfect, though it sucks we saw so little of Piter before he died. Nailed the Sardaukar too, wish we had seen a little bit more of them fighting and how superior they were to the Harkkonen forces. Duke Leto was perfect, only wish he had gotten more shine but you can't really justify it with runtime. Lady Jessica was a bit too over the top, I'm glad they showed her emotion but they needed to balance that with her coldness better, that may come in the next flick. Paul was perfect, he's just as cold/emotionless in the book which partially explains the logic-driven path he chooses, and physically he's supposed to be a slight 15yo who hasn't developed yet, that's why he surprises people in his fights which he wins due to superior training and mental ability, not strength. He grows up in the next half though. Thufir was a good actor but got screwed over in them not really showing the Mentat shyt or how he trained up Paul in that. Gurney got really screwed over with his backstory missing and not doing any battle songs or shyt. Duncan Idaho was better than I thought he would be (even if I still think he was miscast). Yueh was okay but not really how I envisioned him (I wanted him to be more dignified), they really left out his important backstory too. Liet Kynes was very well done, I wish there was more of her but again almost impossible with pacing, sucks that she has to die so early in the story. Jameis was decent, his character actually gets filled out more after his death. I'm on the fence with Stilgar and Chani but willing to wait and see.
Two years a long-ass time to wait, but at least we aren't in suspense about what happens.
The Devil's Advocate
Call me Dad
Ehhhh I think people want to be spoon fed everything. As someone who never read the books or saw any show/movie on it, it was simple to follow...
I'll not butcher the names but it's like this. One house had the spice, they need it for travel. The emperor was jealous of the main characters house, for how the other houses looked up. So he gave them the spice planet, fukked them on the equipment, and allowed the old house to run down on them. This was easy to pull off, as these two houses have had beef for years.. The boy wasn't supposed to be born, old girl was supposed to only have daughters. She didn't listen. She also trained him in these magic ways of the witches.. He might be the one. He might not be. But the coven paved a way for him to live and to find out.
Boy dreams of the future.. See's what can become throughout the movie. And at some point, says fukk it, lets do it. We will go to war, but these nikkas killed my pops and my friend, so lets ride out. Sand people are like maaaan fukk what y'all talking about, just leave us be. And we can see it's hard to live out there by them saying it's hard to live out there every 5 minutes, needing the suits, and always running from the sun.
Boy is now going to become king of the sand people and fight back
Now I'm sure there a million extra things that SHOULD go into it. But how people can't grasp the main points of the story, enough to enjoy the movie or even comprehend what's going on, is alarming to me.
It was easy to miss a lot of shyt cause it went by so quick and some of the dialogue was low. Duke Leto is both a charismatic and honorable man and he mentioned that he was being looked to by the other Houses for leadership. The emperor is afraid that Duke could become powerful enough to actually pose a challenge to him. So he puts him in a vulnerable situation and deals with the Harkkonens on the side to knock him off.
He has elite mental powers due both to selective breeding and specific mental training, along with the diversity of education that only a Duke's son would have access to. In anticipation of going to Arrakis he studied the Fremen language and he knows some other languages too.
That's exactly who he's supposed to be, a highly-trained but untested teenager who isn't fully ready for what he's getting thrown into.
His superior training and genetics is his superpower. Basically he the sole product of centuries of secret Bene Gesserit eugenics program meant to produce a psychic elite. But in the movie they didn't really show how he had been trained as a mentat (human computer) by Thufit Hawat, trained as an elite fighter by Duncan Idaho and Gurney Halleck, and trained as the male equivalent of a Bene Gesserit witch (sort of ultra-elite behavioralist to the point of having hypnotic effect on others) by the Lady Jessica.
100% get what you're saying cause the story is completely set up for you to root for Paul, just to make it that much more ambiguous when you see what happens to him and his plan. If he comes off as a bad guy or a fukk-up from early on, then there's no lesson learned about hero worship, the only thought would be, "Well, if Paul was a better person then he would have done the right thing." The whole point is that it doesn't matter how "good" Paul is, the path he goes down is always destined to be a dark one. But it's gonna take a LONG ass time to get there, cause we're only on the first half of book 1 and even though Paul already sees part of the problem in his destiny, we don't get to see the full negative effects until books 2/3/4 in the series.
That's who the Bene Gesserit have sort of designed Paul to be. Whether or not that's a good thing for Paul to be remains to be seen.
He represents the leader that you know is evil from the beginning. He's Hitler, Columbus, King Leopold, etc. He's the ruler who you know is bad, to contrast to the ruler who....
The part they did mention but covered too quickly is that all that shyt is just manipulation by the Bene Gesserit. They secretively planted a messiah story on the planet (and lots of other planets), and Paul was trained to know how to manipulate it to his end when necessary. Those folk calling Paul the messiah are having their strings pulled by the outworlders. It's definitely a critique of the situation.
Yeah, in fact there were definitely blond and red-headed Fremen in the book. I don't think anyone's race was described explicitly in the book, figure after 20,000 years of interstellar travel on mixed crews it ain't gonna be defined by the same lines in the future anyway. Even in the movie no planet is all one race, the Fremen were played by Black, Brown, and Spanish actors (Irish/Swedish fremen would die too quick in that sun lol), and there were Black folk in the emperor's entourage (the herald) and the Atreides entourage (Thufir Hawat) too.
Liet Kynes is one of the most purely good characters, and yeah she dead now. Duke Leto is pretty damn good too only he's a bit blinded by the position he was born into. Most of the rest of the characters that aren't evil are still kind of morally ambiguous, they can be righteous and honorable but whether they're doing the right thing or just acting within the expectations of the role they were born into is a big question.Dune is a weird move where pretty much everyone seems evil. Hard to tell who is really the good guy.
seems kinda demonic considering how the main characters are using what y’all call witchcraft as their “force”
I’m pretty sure Timothy chalement mom and grandmother are witches
and even the blue eyed people of the spice planet seem demonic and even though we are supposed to root for them I guess
outside of Jason mamoa and that black girl (not zendaya) there’s no feel good characters and we see how things worked out for them
Gurney is from the Harkonnen home planet and got into some sort of shyt where his family was killed and he was tortured in the slave pits. He escaped and eventually ended up saved by the Duke, who he sees as a true, honorable leader. So he's intensely loyal both because of his deep hatred for the Harkonnens and his very strong feelings about the Duke.
Considering the storyline that scene HAS to be the end of the first movie. I knew going in that it would end right there. Only thing is that they could have built up the scene more and played it out so that Jameis was a bit more of a threat.
You'll actually get more background on Jameis once Paul has spent more time in the sietch alongside the Fremen.
The sandworm is sort of like "Gaia", the force that represents the power of the planet and its desire to self-regulate and resist those who wish to merely exploit the planet for its wealth.
Saysumthinfunnymike
VOTE!!!
One thing i wasn't quite sure of maybe i missed but how does the Emperor gain the title and what power does he have over the houses.. i don't mean related to spice i mean how does he govern.
KillbertArenas
Superstar
This shyt is 
To address what you quoted me on, I didn't miss it, I just feel like it was a weak explanation. The emperor is committing genocide because he's a hater basically. There was nothing in the movie to demonstrate the popularity of the Duke to make him seem like a threat. We don't see any of the houses that apparently admire him so much or the emperor's perspective on why he's a threat so the whole thing is tell don't show instead of the other way around. It felt like the lines were thrown in there because the genocide had to happen and they needed something to say why it happened.
On the rest of your posts, you have clearly read the books and are a fan. Those of us who haven't didn't gain any background on these characters or their motivation while watching the movie. You talked about the history of Josh Brolin's character from the book, which is interesting, but we don't get any of that watching the movie. So he comes off as an empty shell, quick to get violent for no reason. Now that his character is dead I doubt we get that background on screen, so it seems like a waste.
Showing the other houses admiring Duke Leto and demonstrating that he was a threat to the throne would have required a ton more backstory, introduction of new worlds, new characters, etc. just to make that one point. And it would have distracted from the main point - which is that the emperor is a control freak who wishes to cement his grip on power whether or not Duke Leto truly represents a threat at all.
In the book they handled it just like they do in the movie - the emperor's motivations are only guessed at in a short conversation between Duke and his son. You don't get the stereotypical, "Bad guy describes his evil plan to a subordinate" speech, that would be forced and unrealistic. Like most politicians the emperor is likely too arrogant to admit his true motivations to his subordinates anyway, he'll probably make up deflecting rationale that don't reflect the true reason he's eliminating Leto.
Like I said right at the beginning of my first post, I'm surprised people who aren't into the books can really get the movie, considering all the background and world-building that has to be left out. However, it seems like a lot of folk in this thread who didn't have background love the movie, so that's a happy surprise.
And don't jump to assumptions too quickly - we never saw Brolin's character die. He could be captured or escaped. And at least in the book there is a character or two who you get more backstory on even after they die, because the other characters reflect on who they were and what their lives/deaths meant.
Someone may know more than me but it's insinuated that it's just brute strength - his Sardukar soldiers are the most feared fighters in the universe and can kick the ass of anyone else's army, thus he rose to power. The other houses have to band together somewhat just to keep his power in check and keep shyt diplomatic, but their own rivalries get in the way. It's lightly implied that if all the Houses were unified then they might be able to challenge the emperor, but that's an untested proposition.
High quality poster
Veteran
Saw it a second time, the first showing was such a shock of finally seeing it I guess I wasn’t able to fully appreciate it. The second showing tho, wow, it got better. Imma just watch this in imax until it’s out of theaters .
gldnone913
Integrity and Consistency
I gotta watch it again. First watch was ok
Yeah this is basically it. A kind of controlled chaos and fueds between the houses keeps him in power. It's kinda why he sets this trap for Atreides, they're getting too popular and well regarded amongst the other houses, he can't have that. His actual power comes from the fact that his house has been on the throne for like 10 thousand years something like that. His house won a major battle way back then, same battle that started the fued between harkonnen and atreides too iirc. So it's just inheriting and consolidating power from generations and generations ago.
Last edited:
