Official "Dark Side Of The Ring" Discussion Thread

AKM-95

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i loved the doc but watching brawl 4 all back in the day as a 10-year old I remember really liking it.

I gotta say the office is full of shyt lol even back then me and my friends could see that it was set up for Doc Death to win..
 

Cartier Murphy

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It's night & day how much politics played into this. JR was mad that his boy got knocked out & he was made to look stupid, and Cornette was mad at the entire concept (which I don't blame him for). So they basically teamed up to bury Bart Gunn, who didn't do anything he shouldn't have done. Was Bart over at the time? Prior to the Brawl for All? No, but he was getting cheers for the Brawl for All. It wasn't mega pops, but the fans recognized he was a bad ass. Bart could've been used similar to how Steve Blackman was used at the time. Steve Blackman is that dude, but it's not like he had 1000x more charisma than Bart.

That was like JR saying in the episode that it was a failure because it didn’t get anybody over. No, it was a failure because it didn’t get the guy YOU wanted over :mjlol: then you have the guy who won the damn thing get bodied by Butterbean. I’ll be honest and say I don’t think Bart would’ve materialized into a big star had they capitalized on his win, but they should’ve tried and honored their word on pushing him. Worst case, he bombs. Best case, you have a solid hand in the midcard scene for years to come. But you have to honor your word and give the guy a shot, it was only right.

Everybody is talking about what a clusterf*ck the Brawl For All was, however it was that one tournament where the guys could show how tough they were and put their money where their mouth was.
So f*ck that, it was a legit tournament. The matches looked weird at the beginning, however once it came near the finals, you got some legit "ufc meets barfight" show.
They really did Bart dirty, he won fair and square. Putting him home for a time after winning the tournament (while they actually should've at least put him in the IC-title picture), then feeding him to Butterbean.
And Cornette and Ross are literally talking bullsh*t the entire time. They were just mad that their little buddy, the brittle and already over-date Dr.Death got his @$$ handed to him.
F*ck Dr.Death, I hated that guy from the moment he entered the WWF. The Hank Hill version of the world's toughest man. Being booked to drop Japanese guys on their heads and not incur any punishment, while looking like some husky, overweight lumberjack who hasn't seen a gym in years.
As stated above, with all the comments made in the episode, you're actually starting to root for Russo.

The last line Jericho said couldn't be more accurate: "Champions/stars/wins are decided in the boardroom".
Yeah that’s another one, let’s say if this all worked out how they planned it, I don’t think Steve Williams would’ve been there long or really had much success. He was nearly 40 by the time he came in and on the downside of his career by then, not to mention he had been working in Japan for the majority of the last decade. Working stiff and dropping guys on their heads is apart of that culture, but in 90’s WWF? No way. That was part of why Vader’s run was largely a failure, nobody is gonna be willing to get mauled by him the same way he did in Japan. Let’s say Dr. Death wins the Brawl for All, you mean to tell me Austin is gonna be willing to work that strong style with him? :usure:Much less Taker, Rock, Triple H, etc? No way. Best case he ends up just like Vader, a brief main event run before floating around for a while before he dips.
 

TheGreatShowtime

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That was like JR saying in the episode that it was a failure because it didn’t get anybody over. No, it was a failure because it didn’t get the guy YOU wanted over :mjlol: then you have the guy who won the damn thing get bodied by Butterbean. I’ll be honest and say I don’t think Bart would’ve materialized into a big star had they capitalized on his win, but they should’ve tried and honored their word on pushing him. Worst case, he bombs. Best case, you have a solid hand in the midcard scene for years to come. But you have to honor your word and give the guy a shot, it was only right.


Yeah that’s another one, let’s say if this all worked out how they planned it, I don’t think Steve Williams would’ve been there long or really had much success. He was nearly 40 by the time he came in and on the downside of his career by then, not to mention he had been working in Japan for the majority of the last decade. Working stiff and dropping guys on their heads is apart of that culture, but in 90’s WWF? No way. That was part of why Vader’s run was largely a failure, nobody is gonna be willing to get mauled by him the same way he did in Japan. Let’s say Dr. Death wins the Brawl for All, you mean to tell me Austin is gonna be willing to work that strong style with him? :usure:Much less Taker, Rock, Triple H, etc? No way. Best case he ends up just like Vader, a brief main event run before floating around for a while before he dips.

They claimed that there was never a push promised. It sounded like they told a few guys this to get them to join. If I remember the documentary correctly, Bart said Kevin Kelly was the one who told him that even though Kevin Kelly was never a part of creative. Either way, it's messed up. Thinking back again, the entire bodyguard/APA gimmick could've been given to Bart too. I mean, it's obvious they didn't want Bart on the show anymore and chose to feed him to Butterbean as a way to shut him up. We all know how petty Vince is, so that letter Bart wrote and faxed to his office was probably what set Vince off to get Butterbean :mjlol:
 

Big Jo

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I could swear shortly after Bart Gunn won the brawl for all there was a segment on Raw where he cut a promo on Austin and there was minimal reaction from the fans so they abandoned that angle

they either didn’t mention this on the doc or it never happened. anybody know?
 

The Ruler 09

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He’s dead tho lol

I know, I just mean the story, he was a very loved/respected wrestler, in the wrestling community nobody really held this against him for years, most people didn't anyway. Some didn't really know the details, even myself as a lifelong wrestling fan I knew nothing about this until many years later.
 

threattonature

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"I never lost a fight before Bart Gunn"

Godfather lost to Dan Severn in the tournament before Bart :mjlol:
He could've meant straight getting his ass whooped. I thought in the BFA match he lost he just got outpointed but didn't really get his ass whooped.

Um yea that's the way it is now but the NWA and AJPW were a lot bigger back then obviously. The wrestling business hasn't always been this way, believe it or not it used to be good. Plenty of guys became stars outside of the WWF in the 80s and 90s. You may not like it or knew any of them were stars yourself, but it's true.

Just because someone had success in Japan doesn't mean it'll translate to them coming to the states being recognized as a star. Nobody gave a fukk about Scott Norton in WCW. I was a Dr. Death stan when I was young when he was with Varisty Club and Miracle Violence Connection but could give a fukk less when he came back to WWF. Only the absolute most hardcore of fans even knew Steve Williams was still wrestling as the internet hadn't taken off like that yet.
 

threattonature

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As far as this episode I think it did a poor job of really painting the picture of how much of a failure it actually was. They didn't touch on the fact that eventually the ratings for those segments dropped big time. They only gave a throwaway line in regards to how the rules were changed a few times. The scoring was way too titled early on for takedowns. I forgot which fight it was where somebody just basically spammed takedowns the whole fight and hardly any punches were actually thrown. On some of the fights the fans were straight booing. Like others mentioned some of the fights were straight worked.
 

TUA TAGOVAILOA

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Just because someone had success in Japan doesn't mean it'll translate to them coming to the states being recognized as a star. Nobody gave a fukk about Scott Norton in WCW. I was a Dr. Death stan when I was young when he was with Varisty Club and Miracle Violence Connection but could give a fukk less when he came back to WWF. Only the absolute most hardcore of fans even knew Steve Williams was still wrestling as the internet hadn't taken off like that yet.
Just because you and your 3 friends back then didn't know who he was doesn't mean no one else know what was going on outside of the WWF. The NWA/WCW and AJPW used to be a lot bigger and followed by more ppl back then. And I didn't say his stardom should carry over from Japan, but he was extremely over and has all the tools so yea it wouldn't have been hard to get him over at all.

99% of the time when a star from outside the WWE comes in and doesn't get over it's because the the WWE has no idea what they're doing. It's been proven time and time again. So just because a guy didn't ever become a star in the WWE, doesn't mean he wasn't a star
 

TUA TAGOVAILOA

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And it don't mean he was gonna be a star in WWE either. There was no chance that he was gonna reach superstar status in WWE the way he did in Japan or down south. A new era of wrestling was rising and Dr. Death wouldn't of fit it that generation.

Some Trivia for ya: Williams is Steve Austin's real surname. He changed it to Austin because there was already a wrestler named Steve Williams. So JR and Corny got what they wanted. Steve Williams did indeed become a superstar in WWE.
Yea once again, the WWE actually knowing what they're doing and handling guys correctly is a whole other issue. They've ruined countless # of guys who could have been stars.

Not sure why everyone's acting like the WWE has a good track record with these kind of things.
 

VegetasHairline

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Yea once again, the WWE actually knowing what they're doing and handling guys correctly is a whole other issue. They've ruined countless # of guys who could have been stars.

Not sure why everyone's acting like the WWE has a good track record with these kind of things.
WWE doesn't want big stars anymore. After The Rock left for Hollywood they made sure of that. John Cena is likely the last big name star you'll see. The WWE brand itself is the star now.

As for Steve Williams, that dude was never going to be a star in the Attitude Era, I don't care how popular he was in Japan. Why would fans care about him over Stone Cold, The Rock, Undertaker, and others? What set him apart from the rest? You can be booked as a star but that doesn't mean the fans are going to accept you as one. Just look at Roman Reigns.
 
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