Excellenceofelegance
All Star
Vince’s character is so shytty it’s crazy how having money you can just continue being a scumbag and get away with things , r.i.p Owen he legit passed a day after my 2nd birthday
Official "Dark Side Of The Ring" Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Bonefan32
- Start date
A 123 pin is a championship win in my eyes F*** wwe,they let that dumb shyt Rock when it comes to heels
Like Elgin Baylor retiring right before Lakers won a championship
Let that shyt count
malbaker86
Gators
I remember reading or hearing Mick say that the dumpster bump was "soft as a pillow" or something
Maybe it wasn't in the best taste but I didnt find it particularly offensive. I remember being really taken back by it and thinking it was real as a kid, but thats part of the magic for lack of the better word.
I don't think it was a super dangerous stunt, and I dont know that wrestling stunts needed to come to a complete halt after Owen passed. Certain stunts, anything involving wires and harnesses yes, never should be done again. But the dumpster angle I think was OK. I see your point though and agree its a fine line.
In hindsight, it was such an awful decision to continue the PPV. I can imagine how horrific and stressful that night was for everybody involved on the production side, but somebody should have had the good sense to pull the plug on the show and just take the financial loss.
I wonder if anybody has gone on record saying they regret continuing the show. It was such a god damn poor decision, and even worse in hindsight and when things like blood on the ring come to light.
I do remember reading some wrestlers, or maybe Vince McMahon saying "Owen would have wanted to show go on", but others, Bret I think said Owen would have NOT wanted to show to go on. I believe Owen is on record saying something similar, specifically because he was upset his match with Steve Austin continued after he accidentally injured Austin and broke his neck.
I am weirdly torn on the WWE HOF thing. I definitely get how his family wants no part of the wrestling biz and they are honoring him in more profound ways. That said, Owen absolutely deserves any recognition he gets, and the HOF would be a beautiful moment. The industry has grown a lot since 1999 and will continue to, and I think the industry and WWE specfically can honor Owen without it downplaying the tragedy, or their ownership of it.
The Owen tribute blu-ray for example I really enjoyed and was beautifully done. I think WWE can honor Owen's memory in tasteful ways, such as the Hall of Fame, but I get how Martha and the kids still want nothing to do with the company and won't co-sign it.
I didn't realize the fallout within the Hart family was so deep and still runs to this day. You'd think if nothing else Bret would have made it his primary goal to reconnect with the kids in the last 20 years. Really sad they haven't made peace yet. maybe the show last night will nudge them back in that direction
threattonature
Veteran
JR talks about it in his book in more detail. Basically says that there was straight silence on the headset the whole time and JR was asking if anybody was even there. And then the conversation about needing to give an update happened where JR is informed that he's dead and the countdown happens.Haven't seen the episode yet, but this fukking framegrab, jeezus. Kevin Dunn telling that to JR...
charknicks
All Star
So, it was Elizabeth Neidhart (Nattie's mother) who stole the documents from Martha and gave it to the WWE lawyers. Not a surprise
This must be why Nattie has a job for life in WWE, no matter how much people think she is terrible in the ring.
MenacingMonk
Tranquilo
I don't know if comparing play fights to legit sports is the best way to describe it, but ok.
this is so true lol
TrueEpic08
Dum Shiny
I had no problem with the bump itself. It looked so safe that I would probably let my little nephews take it. My problem was with the way it was portrayed: they essentially blocked off a half hour of the program to sell it as a real-life tragedy (up to having JR completely break kayfabe and explain insider terms on air) only for them to come back at the end of the show, rendering the angle essentially meaningless. When you keep running angles like this only to repeatedly tell the audience "it's fake," you're needlessly jacking up the threshold for a proper suspension of disbelief. The thinking behind said stunts progresses to the point that, just to get a pop or a laugh out of the audience, you're literally playing with people's lives (and if you don't want to think about Owen, think about the dozen or so times the owner's fukking son did a ridiculously dangerous stunt solely to wow the audience, or Foley being thrown off the cell in mid-1998, only for them to run a month of angles where Foley threw himself off of something high to diminishing returns from the audience. Now think about Mick's current quality of life...). It makes it harder for the wrestling to be the draw for no real reason.
Owen's in every pro wrestling hall of fame that matters. Martha made a really good point when she said at one point over the last few years (very rough paraphrase here) that there's no reason whatsoever for her to let Owen be enshrined in a nonexistent HoF to line the pockets of the company that's responsible for his death. And the really funny part about it is that Martha seems like such an eminently reasonable person that she may have been amenable to him being enshrined if Vince had just admitted responsibility for his death from the start (it's telling that, despite her distaste for wrestling, she's allowing Pro Wrestling Tees to make and sell Owen Hart merch). It may not have been immediate, but if the WWE didn't go through such lengths to stifle her efforts to receive some sort of justice for Owen's death, maybe he would be in the WWE's HoF one day (then again, considering that the family largely wants nothing to with the business, maybe not). But since he didn't, and in fact acted like a ghoul throughout the entire process, here we are.
As for Bret's relationship with Martha and co., Bret's kind of being his usual stubborn self here. The primary reason he reconciled with WWE was because he's so invested in preserving his and his family's legacies, and because WWE owns so much of the Hart family's wrestling footage, he kind of had to reconcile with Vince to ensure that they didn't smear his family's name out of existence (in his eyes). In addition, he's had so many awful things happen to him over the years that I figure he just doesn't want to carry that bitterness around with him anymore. Martha, as strong as she is, just isn't going to move past Owen's death in the same way, and has found a way to honor him that has nothing to do with the wrestling business. But I don't quite think Bret understands or sympathizes with Martha's decision, so it's caused this rift between them. Bret has to build the bridge (because Martha never will), and I don't think he's going to bother at this point.
people think nattie terrible?
blues_funk_reggae
Veteran
I always thought it was demonic how Vince kept the show going. You know he was back there stomping around pushing his carnie shyt "we gotta keep the show going or else the fans wont believe us" or some traditional shytty excuse to keep it going. Making JJ cut that promo while they rush Owen off on a stretcher right in front of him was work of the devil.
This is pure speculation on my part, but I feel like the first thing Vince did was call his lawyer Jerry McDevitt and asked him what to do/say that's why he didn't tell Marta that Owen died, instead the doctor got on the phone and told her.
Jerry Lawler and JR getting hung out to dry out there
We all heard the stories of Vince being an emotionless work machine that doesn't do anything except run his wrestling promotion, but maybe, just maybe Vince, the people at the arena working that night wanted no business working the rest of the show and had Owen's family in their thoughts.
The shyt that went down in wrestling in the late 90s leading up to 2000 was where I decided to cut out of that shyt. Owen's death, Montreal, wrestlers dropping like flies, the product being garbage and so on...
This is pure speculation on my part, but I feel like the first thing Vince did was call his lawyer Jerry McDevitt and asked him what to do/say that's why he didn't tell Marta that Owen died, instead the doctor got on the phone and told her.
Jerry Lawler and JR getting hung out to dry out there
We all heard the stories of Vince being an emotionless work machine that doesn't do anything except run his wrestling promotion, but maybe, just maybe Vince, the people at the arena working that night wanted no business working the rest of the show and had Owen's family in their thoughts.
The shyt that went down in wrestling in the late 90s leading up to 2000 was where I decided to cut out of that shyt. Owen's death, Montreal, wrestlers dropping like flies, the product being garbage and so on...
tremonthustler1
aka bx_representer
What’s the difference Vince and a shytty sports owner?I don't know if comparing play fights to legit sports is the best way to describe it, but ok.
MenacingMonk
Tranquilo
There is no Vince and sports owners in this conversation. You’re comparing storylines, characters and choreographed moves to Actual competitive sports with players who don’t act out their sport.
Wrasslin is like an actual Hollywood TV show: sometimes it runs its course and you just gotta step away.
It was another username of the previously banned @ZEB WALTON
