Official Black Panther MCU Thread

[nieman]

You idiot.

First of all Coates run and the Movie have NOTHING to do with one another (thank God) secondly, both Priest and Hudlin were able to portray T’Challa as both a badass and a character with flaws who goes through major challenges and tribulations. They are able to do this WITHOUT changing the character’s established personality and making him a whining, worthless, pitiful excuse of a “hero”. Coates T’Challa is neither an effective hero nor is he a regal King. Coates T’Challa has not accomplished ONE SINGLE FEAT on his own in EIGHTEEN ISSUES. Beyond that, Coates has completely ignored established continuity several times in order to make T’Challa look bad.

Wakanda already had an established Council that provided checks and balances to T’Challa’s rule. So the “No One Man” garbage that the Midnight Angels sprout is bullshyt. And at the end of the first run, the problem is solved by...establishing a council that provides checks and balances to T’Challa’s rule


T’Challa has NEVER, not ONCE abused his authority over the Dora Millaje. There is even a storyline within established continuity where a former Dora Millaje becomes a villain over her falling in love with him and him not wanting to abuse his authority so he rejects her. T’challa Even was badly injured and lost his crown for a time because he risked his life to SAVE a Dora Millaje. Coates ignored all of this and made the DM’s victims of T’Challa’s leadership who live in constant fear that he will force them to “serve him in all ways”


T’Challa not only saved the entire Universe, he used the infinity gauntlet to restore Wakanda back to its former glory. He is literally the reason the world EXISTS right now. Coates ignored that and instead had the people of Wakanda angry with him enough to revolt over the incursions that occurred previously. Coates completely bypassed the FACT that Shuri was reigning Queen and Black Panther when Wakanda was invaded and almost wiped out by Namor, AND that it was her reckless idea to go to war with Atlantis when T’Challa advised her not too. So there is literally NO canonical reason for the people of Wakanda to rebel against T’Challa.

Coates himself has said that he is against the concept of Afro-Futurism, which is the very foundation that the Black Panther myth is BUILT upon. Therefore Coates has stated he couldn’t wrap his mind around T’Challa not abusing his power and raping the Dora Millaje (feeding into the “Black man as lecherous animal” stereotype) T’Challa being a King of an advanced African nation (feeding into the “black man as morally corrupt and the need for western influence in governing an African society” stereotype) he used the fact that T’Challa spends time abroad and as an Avenger as rhetoric for T’Challa secretly NOT wanting to be King when it’s been established in continuity that T’Challa’s dealings abroad have both strengthened and aided in his rule, and that he indeed wants to be King.

Coates has taken a huge steaming dump
On the Black Panther mythos. And the underlying problems with his run is that he doesn’t respect the character or what he represents. It isn’t about not wanting to see T’Challa struggle or take an occasional L. It’s abotn wanting to see T’Challa portrayed as he truly IS. Even when T’Challa struggles he is still the most dangerous man alive because you never know what plan he is coming up with until he snares you. Even when T’Challa is in doubt he still exhibits a keen sense of intelligence. T’Challa does not allow rape camps in Wakanda. T’Challa does not allow his fiercest protectors to live in fear that he will sexually mistreat them because he shows them respect at all times.

Everything @Ziggiy said but especially the bolded. T'Challa is ALWAYS confident in his final decision, and lives with whatever the repercussions.

 

[Birnin Zana]

Coates completely bypassed the FACT that Shuri was reigning Queen and Black Panther when Wakanda was invaded and almost wiped out by Namor, AND that it was her reckless idea to go to war with Atlantis when T’Challa advised her not too. So there is literally NO canonical reason for the people of Wakanda to rebel against T’Challa.

Respectfully breh, I have to reply to these particular points:

1. After Namor attacked Atlantis, Shuri replied in kind and rightfully so: got Atlantis destroyed.

2. The Wakandan people wanted war. The Wakandan government wanted war. The Wakandan military wanted war. Shuri herself wanted war. Only something as incredible as the incursions would've prevented war. The incursions were why T'Challa fought against war in the first place. Problem is, Shuri didn't know the incursions, because T'Challa wouldn't tell her about it before, doing, or after the war council in New Avengers #7. Despite the incredible situation, he kept it to himself.

3. T'Challa himself knew that Namor's peace offer would have been a major destabilizing effect in Wakanda (he said so while talking about Namor's peace offer to Reed Richards, before he went to the war council). Namor even mentioned that elements within Wakanda were plotting with him to get Shuri kicked out. Shuri agreeing to Namor's peace offer without a big reason to do so besides "more people will die" would've been the end of her reign.

4. Once T'Challa declared to the war council that there shouldn't be war, he faced not only pushback, but open disrespect from members of the Wakandan government, something in any other situation would've been akin to blasphemy. When T'Challa was missing from the second battle with Thanos' forces (and for good, but secretive reasons), members of the Hatute Zeraze openly disrespected him once more. When it was revealed that T'Challa was harbouring Namor in the necropolis and refused to tell reveal why (the incursions), the Dora Milaje turned on him and Shuri banned him from Wakanda. When it was finally revealed to the Wakanda what was going on, it was too late; the Cabal attacked Wakanda, committed genocide on Wakandans, and destroyed Wakanda.

I completely agree that the "No One Man" subplot was not only not well done but even contradictory to the BP mythos. Even when looking at it from the context of Coates' season 1 alone, it almost feels like a distraction and possibly a waste of time. It didn't amount to much in the end.

That said, I completely disagree that there's no canonical reasons for Wakandans to have a major grievance with T'Challa in particular. Yes, T'Challa and Shuri made peace before she died and there were and always will be Wakandans that will support him.

However, it is completely fair for a writer to come to the conclusion that many Wakandans--even those with the knowledge that T'Challa brought them back to life--would have a major grievance, be bitter about the whole experience, or even hold a (rational or irrational) grudge, simply because a man Wakandans greatly respected knew about the incursions from the start and kept it a secret from his own people, resulting in them ultimately being helpless about the situation.

Coates' big mistake, imho, was choosing to create a contradictory reason for Wakandans to have issue with T'Challa (and not doing it well), rather than going directly for the reasons that previous stories, specifically the Hickman run, directly or indirectly provided. That greatly undercut whatever he was going for during season 1.

 

[Ziggiy]

Respectfully breh, I have to reply to these particular points:

1. After Namor attacked Atlantis, Shuri replied in kind and rightfully so: got Atlantis destroyed.

2. The Wakandan people wanted war. The Wakandan government wanted war. The Wakandan military wanted war. Shuri herself wanted war. Only something as incredible as the incursions would've prevented war. The incursions were why T'Challa fought against war in the first place. Problem is, Shuri didn't know the incursions, because T'Challa wouldn't tell her about it before, doing, or after the war council in New Avengers #7. Despite the incredible situation, he kept it to himself.

3. T'Challa himself knew that Namor's peace offer would have been a major destabilizing effect in Wakanda (he said so while talking about Namor's peace offer to Reed Richards, before he went to the war council). Namor even mentioned that elements within Wakanda were plotting with him to get Shuri kicked out. Shuri agreeing to Namor's peace offer without a big reason to do so besides "more people will die" would've been the end of her reign.

4. Once T'Challa declared to the war council that there shouldn't be war, he faced not only pushback, but open disrespect from members of the Wakandan government, something in any other situation would've been akin to blasphemy. When T'Challa was missing from the second battle with Thanos' forces (and for good, but secretive reasons), members of the Hatute Zeraze openly disrespected him once more. When it was revealed that T'Challa was harbouring Namor in the necropolis and refused to tell reveal why (the incursions), the Dora Milaje turned on him and Shuri banned him from Wakanda. When it was finally revealed to the Wakanda what was going on, it was too late; the Cabal attacked Wakanda, committed genocide on Wakandans, and destroyed Wakanda.

I completely agree that the "No One Man" subplot was not only not well done but even contradictory to the BP mythos. Even when looking at it from the context of Coates' season 1 alone, it almost feels like a distraction and possibly a waste of time. It didn't amount to much in the end.

That said, I completely disagree that there's no canonical reasons for Wakandans to have a major grievance with T'Challa in particular. Yes, T'Challa and Shuri made peace before she died and there were and always will be Wakandans that will support him.

However, it is completely fair for a writer to come to the conclusion that many Wakandans--even those with the knowledge that T'Challa brought them back to life--would have a major grievance, be bitter about the whole experience, or even hold a (rational or irrational) grudge, simply because a man Wakandans greatly respected knew about the incursions from the start and kept it a secret from his own people, resulting in them ultimately being helpless about the situation.

Coates' big mistake, imho, was choosing to create a contradictory reason for Wakandans to have issue with T'Challa (and not doing it well), rather than going directly for the reasons that previous stories, specifically the Hickman run, directly or indirectly provided. That greatly undercut whatever he was going for during season 1.

Parts 1 and 2 you right about, by again you are ignoring the FACT that T’challa fully redeemed those infractions by SAVING THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE and using the infinity stone to completely restore Wakanda back to glory BEFORE the incursion. So If the newly resurrected citizens of Wakanda had an issue with T’Challa’s reasons for not going to wear, then should they not be eternally grateful for T’Challa setting things right and literally being the reason why they exist?


That’s why inarguenthag there is no canonical
Reason for the Wakandans to doubt T’Challa’s loyalty and dedication to Wakanda. He fought and (with Reed Richard’s help) defeated God Doom. The LAST panel of Secret Wars is T’Challa proclaiming that Wakanda, as the leading society in the world, will lead the earth in Space Exploration.

 

[Birnin Zana]

Parts 1 and 2 you right about, by again you are ignoring the FACT that T’challa fully redeemed those infractions by SAVING THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE and using the infinity stone to completely restore Wakanda back to glory BEFORE the incursion. So If the newly resurrected citizens of Wakanda had an issue with T’Challa’s reasons for not going to wear, then should they not be eternally grateful for T’Challa setting things right and literally being the reason why they exist?

That’s why inarguenthag there is no canonical
Reason for the Wakandans to doubt T’Challa’s loyalty and dedication to Wakanda. He fought and (with Reed Richard’s help) defeated God Doom. The LAST panel of Secret Wars is T’Challa proclaiming that Wakanda, as the leading society in the world, will lead the earth in Space Exploration.

A writer can def have Wakandans be grateful for T'Challa's actions, but can also go the opposite direction. Fact is, they had to experience a lot of crazy traumatic stuff including genocide and the destruction of their nation for everything to be resolved.
It's not as if they knew what was coming either; they were out of the loop unti the eleventh hour, including Wakandan leadership.

In addition, I wouldn't mind said mistrust or grudge being a bit irrational, so long as it's understood to be so. In fact, outside of Klaw (who is very honest and straightforward), most of T'Challa's biggest villains are a bit irrational:

-M'Baku wants Wakanda to go back to the old ways, even if it means bringing Wakanda back to the Stone Age.

-Killmonger blames T'Challa for the fate of his family even though T'Challa was only a little kid when he shot off Klaw's arm. He also claims T'Challa is a poor ruler who accepts too much outside help, yet Killmonger's village is the most western-friendly village of all Wakanda.

-Hunter pretty much despises that T'Challa was born--supplanting him from being the favorite son of T'Chaka--and indirectly blames T'Challa for T'Chaka's death.

The point is, several Wakandans having a beef with T'Challa doesn't have it doesn't have to be entirely logical or entirely rational or even objectively right. It needs, however, to be understandable and directly connected to a previous event. We the reader agree, understand, or at the least emphathize with T'Challa's actions because we know what he was dealing with from the start. The Wakandans didn't know till it was too late.

I can see a member of the Wakandan government who lost a lot of loved ones during Namor's attack feeling greatly betrayed when hearing T'Challa saying that Wakanda should accept Namor's peace offer.

I can see a soldier fighting for his life during the second attack from Thanos' forces wondering why T'Challa was missing, only to learn later that he was somewhere else with Namor.

I can even see some members of the Hatute Zeraze or Dora Milaje never fully trusting T'Challa again due to the events of New Avengers, despite his exploits.

If Coates wanted internal strife within the ranks of the Wakandan elite or distrust from a segment of the Wakandan people, he should've went that direction, imho. He went a different direction unfortunately.

 

[Dr. Narcisse]

 

[Dr. Narcisse]

Thanks a lot Russos. Only a matter of time

 

[Neuromancer]

BLACK PANTHER 'Year One' Style Title Launches In JANUARY

 

[parallax]

i wish coates would get the fukk off panther. and year one? i cant wait to read how fukked up thats gonna be

 

[Neuromancer]

i wish coates would get the fukk off panther. and year one? i cant wait to read how fukked up thats gonna be

Not until the agenda is complete.

 

[Ziggiy]

i wish coates would get the fukk off panther. and year one? i cant wait to read how fukked up thats gonna be

If Coates had ANY respect for the Black Panther mythos whatsoever we could have the most kick ass Black Panther run in modern day history. Replace Coates with say, Hudlin and we’d have..

Black Panther (Main Title) a kickass T’Challa who, having triumphantly partnered with Reed Richards in defeating God Doom and restoring the Marvel Universe, is now at the forefront of earth’s space exploration efforts. Having established the intergalactic empire of Wakanda across several formerly uninhabited planets, Wakanda is now an empire amongst the stars. But a new threat right in the heart of T’Challa’s earthbound empire threatens to tear down everything he’s built. A threat as dangerous as any
the king has faced. A threat new and yet familiar. A threat who continues to haunt T’Challa’s otherwise impenetrable psyche. A threat who yearns more than anything to sink its KLAW into our hero’s heart...

Black Panther: World Of Wakanda- Explore the rich and untold history of Marvel’s most fantastic empire. Shuri, the former Queen Of Wakanda, has been living in self imposed exile since the return of T’Challa brought about the restoration of Wakanda from the brink of utter destruction. Displaced by her brother and disillusioned by her own personal failures, Shuri discovers an ancient artifact within the catacombs of Necropolis which transports her into the living memory of Wakanda itself, where while reliving the past she will discover the majesty of her own future..

Black Panther And The Crew: T’Challa takes a Page from Steve Rogers book and decides that the time is right to form his own Avengers team. While the King himself deals with threats both earthbound and cosmic; a team consisting of good friend and impenetrable warrior Luke Cage. Determined Detective Misty Knight. Downtrodden beat cop Casper Cole. And former flame and queen of Wakanda Storm, form a Crew of gladiators that battle the enemies of mankind that prove too street level for the big guns but remain too powerful for the police. In this 8 issue mini series, Erik Killmonger returns from the abyss to wreck vengeance on, not simply T’Challa, but the world at large. Are the Crew up to the task?

Black Panther: Rise Of The King- Discover the adventures of teenaged T’Challa in this lighthearted series that follows T’Challa’s formulative years before he took the crown. Witness the epic tale of the boy who would one day become Wakanda’s most important monarch!


Or...you know... whatever Coates has planned...

 

[Mic-Nificent]

It's some serious nepotism going on with Coates at Marvel. They're just hiring all of his friends, regardless of experience.

 

[teacher]

@Ziggiy

Made it to NYCC, didn’t get to see Coates not even sure he was there it’s such a cluster fukk you definitely need multiple days to enjoy the experience. I did get to meet the Gawd stelfreeze though and suprisingly he said he wasn’t a fan of the gadgets and the high tech armor not entirely to sure if it’s the look the Civil war costume had or the perks in general starting from the priest run or a stab at hudlin since in his run he had an anti-gadget device for everything(I was rocking a T-shirt with the civil war costume bust). He was the first person I went to harass for signatures and a sketch on the blank variant and I was high as fukk so I didn’t get a chance to hit him with the follow up questions. Ken Lashley on the other hand is a BP stan and supports anything BP some posters should take note .

 

[Achille]

I got a daughter who loves Disney Princess's and Barbie. She will definitely be getting a BP action figure come the holidays.

 

[Achille]

 

[Bigbigguy]

@Ziggiy

Made it to NYCC, didn’t get to see Coates not even sure he was there it’s such a cluster fukk you definitely need multiple days to enjoy the experience. I did get to meet the Gawd stelfreeze though and suprisingly he said he wasn’t a fan of the gadgets and the high tech armor not entirely to sure if it’s the look the Civil war costume had or the perks in general starting from the priest run or a stab at hudlin since in his run he had an anti-gadget device for everything(I was rocking a T-shirt with the civil war costume bust). He was the first person I went to harass for signatures and a sketch on the blank variant and I was high as fukk so I didn’t get a chance to hit him with the follow up questions. Ken Lashley on the other hand is a BP stan and supports anything BP some posters should take note .

Stelfreeze is dope but his BP costume is wack. That shyt is ugly