Official Black Panther MCU Thread

[Neuromancer]

If it were strictly up to me, T'Challa would've told Shuri about the incursions, so that Wakanda could have its own scientists try to come up with a solution for the incursions or have contingencies if the worst case scenario was to come and an incursion was imminent. Most likely the Wakandans would've failed to find a solution and would have a life raft contingency, in which they evacuate as many Wakandans as possibly from Earth when the time comes. shyt goes down, they somehow all die except T'Challa, and T'Challa brings everyone back like in Secret Wars. The difference is the Wakandan people knew before dying that T'Challa had their back by providing them with key intel that saved a lot of lives. Much less animosity this time, unless a writer really forces it.

But regardless of the approach, T'Challa should've picked one and stuck to it. When you think about it, he sacrificed a shyt ton under the pretext that morality doesn't mean much if it doesn't help his people and his nation (annulling his marriage, straining his friendship with Cap in NA, losing the trust of his sister and his people, and so on). Yet he bailed out of the bomb plan because of morality in the end, resulting in him being disowned by his father and his ancestors. It's as if he couldn't figure out if he wanted to be T'Challa the superhero or T'Challa the King. He tried doing both and it blew up in his face.

If there's one "advantage" Shuri and T'Chaka have over T'Challa, its that they know exactly who they are from the jump and don't shy away from it. They are monarchs through and through have little to no interest in playing the superhero game. Shuri and T'Chaka would've used the bomb in NA, strictly out of duty. It doesn't mean that they would've enjoyed doing it. It also doesn't mean they are better BPs or better people than T'Challa overall because of that as well. All it means is that each BPs code, morality, and attachment to duty is different.

But T'challa's superhero bent is a fault of the writers. Because I recall him once saying . I am a monarch not a hero.

 

[Birnin Zana]

But T'challa's superhero bent is a fault of the writers. Because I recall him once saying . I am a monarch not a hero.

I think it was from the Priest run. Which wouldn't be surprising, as it was Priest who emphasized that T'Challa is a monarch first. Other writers focused on T'Challa the superhero monarch (Hudlin) T'Challa the superhero almost outright (Liss) and the conflict between both the superhero and the monarch (Hickman).

Plus, T'Challa used to be hanging out with the Avengers waaaaaaayyy back when, almost for no reason, to help out. Hell he was often out of the country a lot, with no apparent benefit to Wakanda. It took Priest plugging the holes and giving reasons for T'Challa's actions and making them fit into character. T'Challa revealing that he joined the avengers in large part to spy on them and make sure the Avengers aren't a threat to Wakanda is a great example of that.

 

[Neuromancer]

I think it was from the Priest run. Which wouldn't be surprising, as it was Priest who emphasized that T'Challa is a monarch first. Other writers focused on T'Challa the superhero monarch (Hudlin) T'Challa the superhero almost outright (Liss) and the conflict between both the superhero and the monarch (Hickman).

Plus, T'Challa used to be hanging out with the Avengers waaaaaaayyy back when, almost for no reason, to help out. Hell he was often out of the country a lot, with no apparent benefit to Wakanda. It took Priest plugging the holes and giving reasons for T'Challa's actions and making them fit into character. T'Challa revealing that he joined the avengers in large part to spy on them and make sure the Avengers aren't a threat to Wakanda is a great example of that.

Exactly my point. These are writers issues

 

[Birnin Zana]

Exactly my point. These are writers issues

Thing is, many BP fans would argue that T'Challa is a superhero, even if, due to his position alone, he shouldn't be. And they would have many examples proving their stance, at this point.

I personally feel like T'Challa (and any BP) are monarchs first. But I feel that at this stage in T'Challa's publication history, it is a debate that will continue for a long time. I wouldn't be surprised if its used in the solo film. We've already had a glimpse of that in Cap: Civil War, between T'Challa killing Zemo (which he had the right to do) and him stopping Zemo and sending him to justice. Plus, the decision to secretly host Bucky in Wakanda as well.

 

[Neuromancer]

Thing is, many BP fans would argue that T'Challa is a superhero, even if, due to his position alone, he shouldn't be. And they would have many examples proving their stance, at this point.

I personally feel like T'Challa (and any BP) are monarchs first. But I feel that at this stage in T'Challa's publication history, it is a debate that will continue for a long time. I wouldn't be surprised if its used in the solo film. We've already had a glimpse of that in Cap: Civil War, between T'Challa killing Zemo (which he had the right to do) and him stopping Zemo and sending him to justice. Plus, the decision to secretly host Bucky in Wakanda as well.[/QUOTE]
See this is debate able. One could say this is the act of a benevolent monarch.

 

[Birnin Zana]

See this is debate able. One could say this is the act of a benevolent monarch.

True. Or T'Challa being on some superhero shyt, especially him sparing Zemo and having him arrested for his crimes.

 

[Neuromancer]

True. Or T'Challa being on some superhero shyt, especially him sparing Zemo and having him arrested for his crimes.

Either or. His statement made me thunk he was enlightened. Iron man is a superhero and he wanted to kill WS.

 

[Birnin Zana]

Either or. His statement made me thunk he was enlightened. Iron man is a superhero and he wanted to kill WS.

That scene

Iron Man just found out at that time. T'Challa, just like Iron Man, wanted to kill WS initially. It took him seeing Cap and Tony pummel each other to think that maybe there was another way.

 

[Neuromancer]

Iron Man just found out at that time. T'Challa, just like Iron Man, wanted to kill WS initially. It took him seeing Cap and Tony pummel each other to think that maybe there was another way.

Still seems like a kings move to me.

 

[doublex]

Still seems like a kings move to me.

They did a good job with his CW arc making it clear why he changed his mind, though. The shock of realizing he'd almost murdered an innocent person rearranged his entire view of the situation. Boseman even mentioned in a recent interview that they wanted to show a little bit of T'Challa's upbringing and concept of honor with the scene, which sets the stage for him to evolve in new ways once we get to his solo film.

Speaking of the film, I've thought of a way that it makes sense for Black Panther to get "the help of the CIA" is the movie: What if Everett Ross is visiting Wakanda to visually verify that the winter soldier is in cryo there (which makes sense as something that would happen soon after Civil War) and just happens to be in the country at the time Killmonger and Klaw attack? From there he could tag along as the "funny sidekick" while Black Panther and the Dora Milaje are tackling the problem. It makes sense that Marvel would want him there to provide humor while Black Panther is being dignified and stoic. And it also explains why they might have wanted the winter soldier in Wakanda without having him actually participate in the Black Panther solo film.

 

[Primetime]

I kinda wonder if Shuri was queen would the MA have a problem.... I get that Tetu is basically Achabe from Priest's run. I'm just wondering what everyone wants and why they don't feel that T'challa can be reasoned with?

Also the Monarchy have kept Wakanda unconquered for eons. If Wakanda was any thing else we know it would have expected folded.

Man, real spit:

• Bast (Panther God) let Doom walk right out with the vibranium instead of deading him right there. T'Challa had to clean up that mess and stopped Doom with an unfortunate sacrifice (*more on that later).
• Then b/c of T'Challa's great politics and management of wakanda's economy, they didn't suffer due to the loss of the vibranium b/c they were on stacks and stacks of trillions, and were still gettin residuals from USA and other countries for all the past business ventures
• The Namor flood was an L but BP wasn't king, and he wasn't king during Doom War either, but if he has to 'own that' fine, but guess what he did?

1. He dropped Namor down with Promixa Midnight, Thanos, the Cabal, & Maximus on a planet... and blew the cotdamn planet up. bbubut some 'duex ex machina' stuff happened in which they all got wished away to an alternative reality last second (that BP didn't even know about until after all of existence ended lol). Well thats comics for you, bc otherwise that shyt was thorough.
   
2. Oh and that all of existence ending? Yea, T'Challa's plan brought that shyt back to existence. Oh and that vibranium* Bast let Doom walk away with? BP brought that shyt back and brought wakanda back top of the world, world leader in space exploration.
   
3. And all that running around with the illuminati not tellin anyone? Yea sure, be mad at him, just don't forget to thank him for bringin yall back to existence , and top of the world , and the vibranium.

To be quite frank, ppl can be mad at BP if they want, and can nitpick any and all things. I completely understand. But I would also understand BP telling those people to STFU, with a "oh and you're welcome for me saving your asses" at the end.

But that's why i couldn't write bp... everybody would know all the good he did, and he'd be movie t'challa but with a shyt list running 8 years long, wit every intention to set the record straight with some vibranium boots to the face.

 

[Primetime]

Oh snap i forgot to add:

Wasn't it BP who jumped in front of a Dora Milaje to save her life (when ironically her sworn duty is to protect his!) and took on a full on death blast from Dr. Doom that burnt him to a crisp and essentially, emphatically ended his reign as king???

Didnt our Wakanda-loving King sacrifice his life to save a Dora? That'd be like Obama jumpin in front of a black female secret service agent to take a bullet for her. He jeopardized any happiness he could've had without hestiation... some would say it was foolish, ridiculous, costly...

Say all of that... but don't you dare say BP don't love his wakandan women

Don't you dare say he don't love his beloved dora milaje

 

[Birnin Zana]

Man, real spit:

• Bast (Panther God) let Doom walk right out with the vibranium instead of deading him right there. T'Challa had to clean up that mess and stopped Doom with an unfortunate sacrifice (*more on that later).

First off:

-fukk Bast.

-Unlike some BP fans, I don't hold T'Challa or any of the BP characters responsible for what happened in Doomwar and AvX. Both stories were riddled with bullshyt writing, AvX being by far the worst culprit of the two.

-T'Challa def deserves major credit for bringing everyone back. I'd even argue that the MU doesn't give him enough credit for that, despite everything he sacrificed along the way to make it happen.

With that said, I have to address two things

1. He dropped Namor down with Promixa Midnight, Thanos, the Cabal, & Maximus on a planet... and blew the cotdamn planet up. bbubut some 'duex ex machina' stuff happened in which they all got wished away to an alternative reality last second (that BP didn't even know about until after all of existence ended lol). Well thats comics for you, bc otherwise that shyt was thorough.

The only reason Namor (and the Cabal) lived was because T'Challa was written to do some silly bond villain shyt and start humble bragging for no reason. Even Black bolt's body language was like . If T'Challa was written in character (imho), he presses the bomb asap and Namor and the Cabal dies.

Scan of BP humble bragging:

http://66.media.tumblr.com/17b91e1b2f808773afec0e35d0ba729a/tumblr_nig8lrGSl61s9ufo0o6_1280.png

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/panthernamor1.jpg

Scan of the humble bragging backfiring:

http://abload.de/img/avengers2012-041-019vtoqe.jpg

http://abload.de/img/avengers2012-041-020r2ozm.jpg

http://abload.de/img/avengers2012-041-0215fq23.jpg

1. And all that running around with the illuminati not tellin anyone? Yea sure, be mad at him, just don't forget to thank him for bringin yall back to existence , and top of the world , and the vibranium.

To be quite frank, ppl can be mad at BP if they want, and can nitpick any and all things. I completely understand. But I would also understand BP telling those people to STFU, with a "oh and you're welcome for me saving your asses" at the end.

As positive as the ending of Secret Wars may have been, it had one unintended flaw (thought I understand why it was done that way): it was surprisingly very open-ended. All we knew for sure was that T'Challa brings everyone back to around NA #1, the Wakandan kids from NA #1 are alive, T'Challa has big hopes of Wakanda being a world leader that would "drag humanity" forward, and that it now had a space program. Beyond that, everything else was up for interpretation.

Which ties in directly to the controversial decisions T'Challa made during NA and TRO concerning Wakanda and his people. Personal feelings about those decisions aside, my biggest fear was that those decisions would eventually be brought up after Secret Wars by a writer and that those decisions would bite T'Challa in the ass, regardless of how Secret Wars ended. Unfortunately, that is more or less what has happened in the Coates run.

 

[Primetime]

First off:

-fukk Bast.

-Unlike some BP fans, I don't hold T'Challa or any of the BP characters responsible for what happened in Doomwar and AvX. Both stories were riddled with bullshyt writing, AvX being by far the worst culprit of the two.

-T'Challa def deserves major credit for bringing everyone back. I'd even argue that the MU doesn't give him enough credit for that, despite everything he sacrificed along the way to make it happen.

With that said, I have to address two things


The only reason Namor (and the Cabal) lived was because T'Challa was written to do some silly bond villain shyt and start humble bragging for no reason. Even Black bolt was like . If T'Challa was written in character (imho), he presses the bomb asap and Namor and the Cabal dies.

Scan of BP humble bragging:

http://66.media.tumblr.com/17b91e1b2f808773afec0e35d0ba729a/tumblr_nig8lrGSl61s9ufo0o6_1280.png

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/panthernamor1.jpg

Scan of the humble bragging backfiring:

http://abload.de/img/avengers2012-041-019vtoqe.jpg

http://abload.de/img/avengers2012-041-020r2ozm.jpg

http://abload.de/img/avengers2012-041-0215fq23.jpg

I'm well aware of those scenes. Namor and the Cabal were meant to survive that shyt because Hickman wasn't done with them so he had to throw some duex ex machina one in a million bullshyt for that to happen with that extra planet takin em to another reality. That's why they survived. Ppl can blame it on BP all they want but the first time it happened, we saw Namor's face distraught and enraged as BP was sayin the quotes, and then everything blew up. It was only later that Hickman flipped it to have like 30 mins worth of dialogue go by so they could take advantage of a scenario that *nobody* saw coming and get out of that corner he wrote em in.

End of the day, BP outmaneuvered Namor, 'put the knife where it belonged', damned him to the planet he was gon blow up, blew up the planet and as far as everyone in 616 knew, Namor and the Cabal were dead and no longer an issue until Secret Wars (once existence was over with anyway)... in which BP then did no favors in protecting him from Dr. Doom's attack. In which Namor was brought back alive 5 mins later anyway.

As positive as the ending of Secret Wars may have been, it had one unintended flaw (thought I understand why it was done that way): it was surprisingly very open-ended. All we knew for sure was that T'Challa brings everyone back to around NA #1, the Wakandan kids from NA #1 are alive, T'Challa has big hopes of Wakanda being a world leader that would "drag humanity" forward, and that it now had a space program. Beyond that, everything else was up for interpretation.

Which ties in directly to the controversial decisions T'Challa made during NA and TRO concerning Wakanda and his people. Personal feelings about those decisions aside, my biggest fear was that those decisions would eventually be brought up after Secret Wars by a writer and that those decisions would seriously bite T'Challa in the ass, regardless of how Secret Wars ended. Unfortunately, that is more or less what has happened in the Coates run.

Flaws and all, IDGAF . His plan brought back existence. That's not just a major accomplishment. That is the accomplishment. He brought back Wakanda, brought back the vibranium and established them as numero uno in the WORLD.

Extinction level event. Everyone dies. Because of BP's plan... everyone lives.

If Coates wants to fukk that up with his garbage interpretation, then that's a personal decision with Coates. If Coates wants to marginalize and undermine the flip side of all the good shyt that BP did after Doomwar and Secret Wars, then that's on Coates. But i personally will remind everybody each and everytime that as much feelings as people can catch for what BP did... BP saved existence, kept Wakanda healthy after Doomwar... saved existence... brought back the "future" of the nation... saved existence... brought back Vibranium... saved existence. So at some point those haters with their valid issues can STFU and say thank you to BP for puttin in work.


Not directed at you, but I am tired of the slander and the marginalization and the disrespect BP has gotten when this whole sequence of the events of the last 8 years was in part kickstarted when BP sacrificed himself to save a Dora Milaje... who should've been saving him! But now writers want to give selective memory and selective story telling to make BP seem inept or like this or that..

Well.. i guess i'll have to rep the other side of the equation then

 

[Un-AmericanDreamer]

Tetu put the good wood on that instagram chick, that's why she went to sleep, anyone else peep that?